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YOUR RESEARCHFSI Stage 1 Build
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Install but no fuel rails
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
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Leading evidence: 'Install but no fuel rails' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, The most frequently discussed action is 'Check oil level' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
We were so early that the engine will be installed pretty close to the date that was originally set for only engine assembly completion :-)
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
These reduce the normal, and expected oil consumption, and mechanical sounds that are a part of any engine fitted with a truly forged piston.
Replace magentic drain & crush washer at every oil
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
I also have changed the magentic drain & crush washer at every oil change for last 7 years, I know not needed, but I do it anyway.
Use mobil 1(liquid death) until i learned about dt40
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
Used Mobil 1(liquid death) until I learned about DT40 after a couple of years of ownership.
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Suggestion
Assuming I replace my current 2 radiators with the CSF radiators plus add the 3rd center radiator, and in addition, put on LN's prototype Oil cooler, would they still be usable with your street/track/R rebuilds, or are they wasted money?
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Suggestion
So when these pictures come up, I am very curious if the owners stayed with factory recommendations for oil and oil change intervals, or if they have switched to some other brand/viscosity.
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Mine didn't look so good at a little over 54k...but it's all GOOD now.
My Stage 1 build has finally started. I had a nice chat with Jonathan@FSI and he sent a bunch of pictures of my engine in various states of disassembly. I've included what I think are the interesting pics with some commentary. Good news for the most part. Things looked good though the piston skirts are showing very early signs of wear that lead to bore scoring.
Arrival!
Heads come off
Valves showing normal wear
Pistons showing normal wear
No bore scoring ... yet
Crankshaft looks pretty good
Early signs of scoring - piston skirts showing wear
Now that I have my elective rebuild scheduled, bore scoring is no longer a worry.
If mine scores now, meh...it'll be better than new next year.
Still changing oil 6M/5K miles, allowing oil to get to temperature before driving hard, using quality fuel, etc...because that's just how I treat any of my vehicles.
Nice
Congratulations
Love it
My dreams of a bad 996 motor and explaining to my wife honey I have to have it rebuilt likely gone; the 4.0 Jake screamer wont happen. IMSS done, meeting the pre inspection report before doing so showed my perfect little 3.6 was well perfect. Now, each time I start it I dont worry about the sound of IMSB failure or flickering check engine light crushing my toy money fund while picking 4.0L parts for Jake to add, while he is in there, I just listen to my Fister D sweet melody.
Now I can only hope for bore scoring to force the 4.0L dream to come true
Mine at 153k miles, looks pretty similar on the piston skirts. Bores were clean, nothing even close to catching a fingernail on either the bores or piston skirts. Elective rebuild in progress.
I apologize in advance if this is a stupid question. With the research being done with SUMEBore technology as a cylinder coating, why can't it also be used as a piston skirt coating?
A similar technology can be used for skirts that could be coupled to engines that do not use SUMEbore for cylinder coatings.
We are already have begun testing to use SUMEBore to restore the main tunnel dimensions to previously worn/ damaged M9X crank carriers.
Also, I am happy to report to the M9X SUMEBore test engine is now back together again, having been equipped with the same ring package and surface finish that I developed using the aircooled engine. The results at 1,500 miles in have been flawless, and all prior issues have been solved.
We had to make our own break in oil (whipped it up in the shop) but it was worth it.
Now onto the 9A1, and a Chevy V8!
For Nebraska of recent decades that's pretty good, LOL. Death, taxes, and Nebraska Football winning by 40+ were certainties in my youth, oh for those days again....
Lots of company’s names don’t reflect what they do.
Flat 6
Innovations
really fits.
But their innovations are not restricted to the flat 6.
They‘ve been doing flat 4s forever, and doing V8 work too.
Now their innovations will benefit the entire automotive industry.
Just amazing!
Yes truly a bygone seemingly never to return era... When that thought gets me down I just go out and drive my 996 with the FSI reconstructed engine and suddenly life is good again.
That's why the parent company is Raby Enterprises Inc, which encompasses Raby Engine Development, Aircooled Technology, and Flat 6 Innovations. Each division has its own employees, workspaces, and specific focus. Flat 6 is just the one that gets the most notoriety, but it wasn't the first, and it is THE biggest pain in the ***.
If things go as they should my SUMEBore developments will be available to the entire automotive aftermarket, but the Porsche engines saw it first, and that was with a 50 year old 914 engine, followed by a pair of M9Xs, and a 9A1
These cylinder bores and piston skirts, at 338k km (210k miles), look very much like mine at 35k miles. My 996 had 26k miles when I got it and I've only added 9k miles. However, I've changed the oil twice a year w/DT40 and followed warmup guidance so maybe started with original owners. I guess it could be faulty injectors. Who knows at this point.
Imo000 - Are you the original owner or has any other major engine work been done to your M96?
Blacksquid,
Or the surface finish of the original cylinders. Based on the profilometer readings on 2 of your cylinders that looked the worst (measured outside of ring travel) I would say this block was destined to score.
I'm not questioning your assessment at all. I find it fascinating that 2 engines of the same vintage but highly differing runtime could have similar appearances on parts that are in almost constant contact. It just goes to show that bore scoring can and does happen at any mileage with these engines.
I'm ecstatic that FSI is rebuilding my engine to get rid of all the know issues with the M96 engine!
That's because you don't understand the variables that exist, and the biggest is the factory cylinder surface finish that can vary between bores of the same engine, as well as between different engines.
The only way someone would understand this is to deal with these engines like we do, and like Baz does. We compare notes and see the same stuff, no one else has ever been able to understand it.
I am the 2nd owner of the car and only put around 12K kms on it after I bought as a non runner and fixed the bent valves. The engine looked extremely neglected when I bought it. The AOS failed a long time ago and the intake ports were heavily restricted ("1/8) by sludge. The original owner traded the car in for a new Boxter and the dealer sold the car as-is to me. The serial number on the engine doesn't show a factory rebuild and if I had to have an educated guess, I don't think the engine was ever touched internally. The reason the valves bent was that one of the cam pad ends broke off and went onto the timing sprocket. This of course cause that bank to jump timing, bending all 6 exhaust valves. The clutch disk was worn well passed the rivets. The car was driven in every season and interior shows this. The steering wheel and the driver seat bolster pads is heavily worn so considering all this, the car and the engine has that mileage in it.
^^^^ this is why you send your car/engine to Flat6 Innovations for reconstruction. Nobody has done as much investigation into the issues that made these engines fail like they do. All the knowledge from this goes into the reconstructed engine. Everyone else (with limited exceptions) are parts changers.
It's been a long wait for this update! Now things will move along rapidly and the engine work should be done by the end of the month. Hopefully, my 996 will be ready by mid-July.
I already bought the UAOS from Skip but I couldn't resist these few additional items when offered:
CP Piston Upgrade
All Stage I, Stage II, Street Performer, and Track Performer engines come standard with JE pistons. Our CP Pistons are developed for competition use and have proven to make more power through their competition ring pack, featuring Total Seal second rings, and a completely altered ring pack over the JE pistons. We have also built more compression ratio into these pistons, and added performance coatings to the skirts, ring lands, ring grooves, and piston crowns.
When CP (Carrillo Pistons) became an OEM supplier to Porsche for the new cup car, and GT3/ Turbo engines, (as well as the 918) we began to use and develop more of their products, ultimately using them as standard equipment for our full race engines. Due to this we now offer these as an upgrade for some engines where we have already proven them to be beneficial, as their design is derived from our full race offerings. The biggest benfit to the CP pistons are their included “Total Seal Piston Rings” developed by Mr. Raby, in conjunction with Total Seal Piston Ring company. These reduce the normal, and expected oil consumption, and mechanical sounds that are a part of any engine fitted with a truly forged piston.
Race Level Dynamic Balancing Tolerances
Balance tolerance set to .2 Oz/In. from .5 Oz/In. This option is good for anyone but is especially a good improvement if you are planning to do any track or organized events with your Porsche! This further reduces harmonics that can cause false knock sensitivity, resulting in ECU “safety retardation” of ignition timing, and a decrease in performance.
High Performance Ignition Coils
Take advantage of the same ignition coils that were developed and are used on all R- Series engines! Doing track work, with higher dynamic compression ratio, better chamber filling, and more horsepower come the necessity for a higher voltage, more intense spark, with enhanced dwell time. The exceptionally high output of our engines can lead to shorter life for any coil pack, especially factory coil packs that were designed for factory cylinder pressures, specifically. Having developed these coils, they are exclusive to our R- Series engine program. These coils may not make huge gains on the dyno, but they do increase drivability and add longevity to the life expectancy of the coils fitted to the engine.
Let the balancing begin!
Gapless rings... very cool. Dig the parts selection ! Really good run down on the gapless rings in the video below - makes a lot of sense in the M96.
You Tube
Super exciting! It's cool to see it coming together. I also chose the CP piston option. I figure that even if the rest of the engine isn't built to take advantage of them, they would at least be lighter and easier on bearings and for the crank to throw around. Looking forward to late July when it comes back. I'm also looking forward to your review of how awesome it is. Maybe no need for Christmas for a few years.
I watched the video after doing some research on the CP pistons. That's when I decided to add the high performance ignition coils.
Lol! Maybe a few birthdays too!
Another picture download from FSI of the block assembly. Three weeks and the engine will be back home. Car should be ready by the 2nd week in July.
Crankshaft in its carrier
CP pistons, rings, etc.
Chains, guides, and paddles
IMS and chains installed
Another view of the carrier with the IMS and chains attached
Block half mounted on the stand and ready for the carrier
Carrier now in the block
Blocks is closed
Almost done with the bottom end
Waiting for the heads!
Wow! FSI weren't kidding when they told me things move quickly in the last month.
Many shiny, new, parts!
Passenger side camshafts
Passenger side camshafts
Valve covers on, spark plugs and tubes installed
Ready for accessories
Valve covers on, spark plugs and tubes installed
Back of the engine
Timing locked
Ignition coils, starter, alternator, oil filler tube
Oil cooler and water pump, lower left
Front of the engine
congratulations to the owner. The amount of details and photos provided is awesome. If it has not been done an album should be created in case you over want to sell the car. Now this is my question for this particular case what�s the total cost of this $30k??? My two cents as almost with every mod if you purchase a car with them in it you can gets a huge discount, currently with p cars the exception that I am seen is singer �reimagined � they are going for over 1 million dollars.
How many miles (how long) did you own it?
What oil did you use?
How often did you do oil change?
What was your warm up procedure?
Did you try to keep RPM over 2800, while daily driving?
Did you have any UOA done?
How many miles (how long) did you own it?
What oil did you use?
How often did you do oil change?
What was your warm up procedure?
Did you try to keep RPM over 2800, while daily driving?
Did you have any UOA done?
Blacksquid
Did you have UOA done when you switched oils and then after?
What warm up procedure did you follow?
Did you keep rpm over 2800 for daily driving?
You purchased with 26k miles and this is what 35k miles looked like?
I'm hoping for it!
The guys at FSI, Jake, Jud, and Jonathan, have done a fantastic job keeping me informed. I expect the end product will exceed my dreams for the car.
I've been waiting since July of last year and now it's about a month away!
About 1 month left before it's back in my hands. I can't wait!
Thanks! The extra offerings really sealed the deal for me.
I am essentially the 2nd owner, 2 brothers from Greenwich, CT owned the car before I bought it in 2018, and I have all records since new, including the window sticker and deposit receipt. So you can bet these pics, as well as the contract and all interactions with FSI, will go into the "Big Book of Knowledge" for this car!
That being said, This will be my daily driver.
The pictures in your reply are from imo000.
I don't believe the original owner had UOA and I certainly did not. However, I will be doing UOA after FSI is done with their work.
The warm up procedure is as follows:
Check oil level
Start the car
Immediately drive off and keep RPMs below 3000 until engine water temp is ~180
Keep RPMS above 3000 and drive at least 20 minutes after that
The piston skirts are starting to show signs of wear.
And when everything else is late in the automotive world, or not available, we are right on time to the date proposed as a completion 1 year ago :-)
Your project will be completed two weeks ahead of schedule.
The final month is the culmination of all the time spent acquiring, machining, balancing, and modifying components. It takes 67 steps for us to get to the final month, then things happen fast..
Bought car in 2014. Used Mobil 1(liquid death) until I learned about DT40 after a couple of years of ownership. Oil changes were @ six months as I don't do enough miles(> 1,000 miles) on car to base changes on miles. Did not do UOA's, but do now with the FSI engine.
Like Tom Petty sang: "The waiting is the hardest part..." The wait will be WELL worth it. You will need to watch your speedometer more closely with this new engine.
Bill I got mine with 91,998 miles. I�m using liquid death. I let you know when my engine grenades. So far so good I�m at almost 97,000. I really like FSI, but since I don�t need an engine I�m going to try to put my money on this. RO�.
As an FYI to others, we only have one "Exclusive" delivery date remaining for 2022 completion. This completion date is September 30, 2022. The remainder of the year is booked, and of course 2021 has been booked solid for 9 months at this point.
I have 4 remaining "Premier" dates for 2022, but expect those to be booked within the month, or certainly by the end of July. It doesn't matter which stage of engine is chosen, these dates are universal for any FSI engine.
Yes, the time does fly faster than people think. The communication, and constant updates that we give seems to help with the wait period.
Thanks for reply
I am trying to figure out if I should switch motor oil from "Liquid Death", that I have used on every vehicle, atv, lawnmower and snowblower I have owned since 1980.
Put over a million miles on 4 different trucks GM alone, never had a mechanical failure in any engine of any type. Including putting 160,000 miles on a Jaguar 4.0L V8 over 15 years.
Now on my 996, 3.6L, Mobil 1 has been used since new. I spoke with the Tech who did all the service on it, before buying, including the oil changes at dealership in Knoxville.
I have had 5 years of UOA with pretty good data, ( my limited knowledge).
Now at 81,000 miles on my 996, with every oil filter from new being examined, by a Porsche Tech or a Porsche Indy with no disturbing findings.
I also have changed the magentic drain & crush washer at every oil change for last 7 years, I know not needed, but I do it anyway.
So when these pictures come up, I am very curious if the owners stayed with factory recommendations for oil and oil change intervals, or if they have switched to some other brand/viscosity.
Thanks for reply.
That is same operating method for me as well, except I wait for high idle at start up to kick down, before I move the car.
Which motor oil did you use?
i don�t even start my car. I let it slip down the drive way. Anyway at street level start and drive right away. My Indy couldn�t believe how fast oil pressure comes up on my car with liquid death. Anyway one if my reasons for using it. 70 percent of wear happens at start up. I�m personally going to prove that liquid moly and the people behind the steering wheel are the real reason for a bunch of this.
Unfortunately that's too late. It's kind of like a human that smokes cigarettes for 40 years before "quitting to get healthy". By the time the oil is changed, and habits change, mechanical damage from years of doing the wrong things has already occurred.
Now that you are rebooting things with the engine you get a chance to start off on the right foot. I'll give you a full schedule for servicing the engine for the first 120K miles. You won't use DT40 for at least the first 7,500 miles, so stand by to experience some changes in your routine.
I know how many times! Every time you drive it!!! My FSI is a 9a1 but it doesn't matter. Prepare to be impressed and astonished, especially by the low end torque.
It's the broad power band that really makes these cars shine. That's why I rate my engines based on average output from 1500- 6,750 RPM, rather than peak power.
True this.. That's why I cautioned blacksquid to keep an eye on the speedo until his brain recalibrates to the new power band so John Law doesn't have to remind him!
Intake manifold installed but no fuel rails
fuel rails!
Almost ready to ship. I delivered the UAOS to Robert Rodriguez, at
IMS Werks
, yesterday and he'll be installing it when the engine returns. I'm also having the engine mounts and the transmission mount replaced.
Ready to go into the crate 2 whole weeks ahead of the proposed schedule that was set 1 year ago. You should be back on the road in to time once Rod gets the engine landed at his shop in a few days.
More than stock. Perhaps you could speak directly with Jake. As he said above pure top end HP is not the goal. Increases in torque and HP over a wide range of rpm makes a street car more "enjoyable".
I can attest, wholeheartedly, to the previous statement.
The Stage I is not developed for maximum power potential. These engines are designed to utilize all stock ancillaries of intake/ induction/ tuning without the need for any alterations to the outside of the engine.
The gains for the Stage I are different based on what generation the car is, as well as the sub- model. As an example, the C4S will make a different set of power figures than a base C2. A 996.1 and a 996.2 will also make different power, even though they are the same stage of engine.
As a general rule the average power output is increased 30HP over stock. Average torque increases by 40# as a general rule. Peak power is never the goal here, peak values are not a consideration for grading my engines. In fact, when averaging our power I throw away the peak power figure as well as the lowest power figure, and average everything else. The goal of this is to prove that we make more power at EVERY RPM POINT over the factory performance figures. In the case of the Stage I, this is achieved without any external modifications.
Put simply, you won't think that the car you received from us is the same car that you sent to us once we remove the throttle and RPM limiters at the 1,000 milestone/ service point.
Of course, I have graphs and etc to illustrate this in my quarterly webinars for potential purchasers, where I share 3.5 hours of insane detail.
Jake,
What changes with your engine builds for someone that wants street and track or your R engines. Not from a power standpoint, but from the standpoint of addressing the cooling/starvation issues with the street engine. What additional items/components do you add to the standard engine?
All R- Series engines come fully outfitted with a full compliment of modifications to address any deficiency. The R- Series is loosely based from the Stage II which is designed to be a dual purpose street/ track engine.
The R- Series schedule is booked through mid- 2023 at this point, and I'm not taking any further orders for them, since I build these R- Series personally.
Thanks.. Only 1 "exclusive" completion date remains for a 2022 completion for a Stage I/ Stage II engine at this point. We have two "premier" completion dates remaining... Otherwise we are booked solid. Once I sell these slots I'm turning off the phone and shutting down sales for at least 6 months so we can focus on the 2023 program, which will see huge changes. I love turning the phone off.
Thanks Jake.
Assuming I replace my current 2 radiators with the CSF radiators plus add the 3rd center radiator, and in addition, put on LN's prototype Oil cooler, would they still be usable with your street/track/R rebuilds, or are they wasted money?
Anyone in the NJ/PA area who wants to experience what a Stage II build drives/feels like I'd be happy to take you on a test drive in my 997.2 4s back to back with a test drive in my 996.2 4s stock. You will immediately understand why they are named Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. (Proof of vaccination required!)
I can imagine
Very curious to hear your driving impressions.
May have to take you up on that at some point. Although a 7.2 S is already quite a potent car.
This has been a pretty cool read. I was browsing the site and feel free if this needs to go over PM Jake.
I don't want to waste anyone's time, but as more of a "good to know, just in case it happens" of a ballpark $ figure on a stocker upgrade.
Got it. I just didn't want to waste their time on a formal ticket when this is not an immediate need. Just a "what to budget in the car fund if it happens"
We have quarterly Webinars for this. Its 3.5 hours of m ind blowing detail. Since I only have one slot remaining for a 2022 "exclusive level" completion, I am not sure if we'll have the Webinar this quarter, or not.
I have my PMs here turned off. I require all dialogue to go through our ticketing system. If not, there's no official record of dialogue, which doesn't work for my program.
I basically did the same thing, I opened a ticket to find out how much I would need to budget.
The webinar will answer just about any question you can think of.
When I decided I wanted to go ahead, I asked for the latest date available in 2022 so I'd be certain I'd have enough time to save.
My completion date was ~23 months from my signing date.
Now my completion date is "just" 17 months away.
The last 6 months have actually flown by.
I went to FSI website the day I found the scored bores. While I was reviewing my options Jud popped in and asked if he could help. I told him my story and before I knew it I was chatting directly with Jake! While I already knew it would be FSI, which version I wanted and why It was somewhat startling to speak directly with Jake on my first visit. Approximately 10 months from this contact my car was back and it now presents a totally different experience.
Customer Service is NOT dead with this business!
Go ahead and call me a Fan Boi! I am not ashamed that being one as there are many great reasons for the way I feel about this operation.
That's what happens 100% of the time. I don't have any sales people. Every engine that has ever been sold under this roof since 1992 has been sold directly by me. I hate sales people, and refuse to hire one.
Someone is buying my engine, and I'll sell it to them my way, with no BS, open ended promises, or unrealistic expectations.. :-)
Who doesn't like presents?
Fabulous 996 chassis meet incredible FSI engine!
UAOS to keep things clean. Shout out to Skip, aka porschetech3, for making the UAOS a reality and continuing to improve the product.
Things are in Robert's hands at
IMS Werks
. As luck would have it, I'll be out of town for a week starting 7/6.
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Awesome. Robert will be following my checklist for installation. I will be on the phone live with him during the first start.
We were so early that the engine will be installed pretty close to the date that was originally set for only engine assembly completion :-)
At any rate, you can shoot us a submission ticket if you'd like to order a 100% MADE IN USA FSI Custom Shop billet aluminum coil filler, or coolant reservoir cap. I'm sick of the plastic ones failing, so these are the answer. Just received the first batch yesterday.
(Sold only to original FSI engine purchasers as an FYI)
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Hello Jake et all; I looked at the flatsix website hoping for access to the webinar. Was this recorded? (sorry if this is a repeat) Also, I tried to subscribe to your website (a few times) you keep calling me a "non human" that really hurts....
Try a different browser if you can.
The next Webinar is in mid- October and will only cover sales for the first quarter of 2023. I am only doing sales by the quarter. We will have 12 positions available, at maximum.
Go open up your original support ticket and Jud will send you a link to our private store site where these (and other exclusive items) can be bought.
Once we set your permissions for the store you can use your support system email and password to enter the store.
