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Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCH996 rear control arm bushing/alignment issue
Leading reported evidence
Adjust longer than stock
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
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Read evidence and context
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
An adjustable lower control arm is usually longer or can be adjusted longer than stock to add more camber.
Leading evidence: 'Adjust longer than stock' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, The most frequently discussed action is 'Adjust camber' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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The arm itself is not adjustable - there is an eccentric bolt that is used for adjustment.
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Suggestion
As the name implies, the eccentric bolt doesn�t adjust camber, but toe in/out (hence the name �toe arm�).
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Suggestion
If you want to adjust camber without shelling out $1k (or more) for adjustable coffin arms what you want are adjustable �dog bones�...
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Suggestion · Original poster
or are you recommending dog bones added as an upgrade to further enhance camber adjustment?
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Suggestion · Original poster
how do you figure the adjustable control arms with up to -2 degrees of adjustment over stock won't help out in my situation given I'm replacing a 20 year old part?
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Suggestion · Original poster
can I just replace the rear control arm bushings with an aftermarket "sport" version or do I bite the bullet and go aftermarket RSS rear control arms...
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Suggestion · Original poster
Given my bushings have worn out and are 22 years old on the arms I don't think I have a choice but to replace the rear control arms with new adjustable ones first...
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Suggestion · Original poster
ok cool - the guy I went to was a local alignment pro that many people use and he did recommend new aftermarket adjustable control arms so we can hit the target alignment for my use case
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took my car to the shop today to have it aligned and they couldn't get less than -2.2 -ve rear camber on the driver's rear.... the passenger rear was @ -1.0
I'm lowered on b8 performance plus shocks and H&R progressive springs
suggestion is to get new rear control arms....
can I just replace the rear control arm bushings with an aftermarket "sport" version or do I bite the bullet and go aftermarket RSS rear control arms...
don't know what their "notion" was but I was under the car as it was hooked up to alignment computer and he tried to reduce it but it just wouldn't go less than -2.2 degrees !!! the other side was fine though.. amazing longevity with over 400 + track hours on them....
those arms are stock , 22 years old and have just over 130,000 miles on them.... time for new ones lol...
debating between the powerflex rear adjustable control arms:
https://www.powerflexusa.com/shop/pr...ory=1873#attr=
and the RSS tarmac series:
https://roadsportsupply.com/357-rss-...l-981-982-718/
The only adjustable part of the stock rear suspension is the �toe arm�. The arm itself is not adjustable - there is an eccentric bolt that is used for adjustment. As the name implies, the eccentric bolt doesn�t adjust camber, but toe in/out (hence the name �toe arm�). If you want to adjust camber without shelling out $1k (or more) for adjustable coffin arms what you want are adjustable �dog bones�...
you sure about that? my understanding is the eccentric bolt adjusts -ve camber... and I saw it with my own eyes as he adjusted it.... maybe your referring about something else?
FWIW I do have RSS adjustable rear toe arms - those work great and they also sell locks that work with them to prevent your toe from moving... $$ well spent
I don’t have a 996 but a Cayman on the exact same dampers and H&R sport springs and was basically told the same about passenger side rear. I lost my paperwork/alignment sheet in the house somewhere but suffice it to say he couldn’t quite dial it in to Cayman R specs I wanted on that one corner. Very peculiar.
yeah so we have the same setup.... so it's bushing fatigue in the control arm... the bushing gets tired over time.. and doesn't respond to the adjustment of the eccentric - it just absorbs the adjustment force and doesn't behave like a new one...
The adjustable toe arms do the same thing as the eccentric bolts - but more (eccentric bolts don�t have enough movement to compensate for heavily lowered geometry). The camber (as well as toe, & caster) is affected by multiple points in the suspension (they all affect each other - ie. They�re �interactive�). On the rear suspension the dog-bones are the main camber adjusters.
Thank you. I was thinking of going all powerflex bushings anyway. I have an entire box of arms and stuff sitting in the garage. One things for damn sure is I have no bad handling characteristics whatsoever attributed to this. I can�t tell at all without the paperwork in hand.
ah ok - thx for clarifying that... adjustable dog bones - got it!. Given my bushings have worn out and are 22 years old on the arms I don't think I have a choice but to replace the rear control arms with new adjustable ones first... I'm leaning towards the RSS arms as they are tough stuff... I have RSS on the front for long long time and I can tell you they are bullet proof
maybe the dog bones come in later for more adjustability
This is not true. Each side on the rear has two eccentric bolts, one on the toe arm one on the control arm. The front does not have an eccentric on the control arm. The one on the control arm adjust the camber. The problem with a lowered suspension is that if you try to reduce the camber you don't have enough range on the toe arm to get the toe in spec.
ok this is making more sense to me now.... so hopefully with an adjustable rear control arm we can compensate for the extra camber a lowered suspension automatically introduces...
Usually its a more adjustable toe arm that's needed. An adjustable lower control arm is usually longer or can be adjusted longer than stock to add more camber. I would take it to an experienced Porsche alignment shop. Sounds to me something is bent if both can't be gotten close to the same.
ok cool - the guy I went to was a local alignment pro that many people use and he did recommend new aftermarket adjustable control arms so we can hit the target alignment for my use case
Yes, the lower control arm (coffin arm) does also have an eccentric bolt, but it rarely gives enough adjustment to get a lowered car into spec. (It�s designed for stock height adjustment). The nice part is that there are adjustable versions of almost all of the important suspension components... Take your pick. I�m by no means a specialist, just relating my experience with what it took to get my rear suspension sorted (I�ve still got stock coffin arms, but adjustable toe & upper links/dog-bones...).
Yes I agree with this. I was also trying to let him know that adjustable LCA (coffin arms) will not do anything to get less camber. Your suggestion of the adjustable upper dogbones and toe arms definitely will.
The information I would want to know was less camber possible but with the toe out of spec. In this scenario usually shortening the toe arm will correct this. Elephant racing sells eccentric bushings that will do this.
NO it was not possible to get less -ve camber on the drivers side riear ... add to that it's a 20 year old control arm - the bushings are tired and the ball join on that arm is also that age....
I think best move is buying new lower adjustable control arms - these are the least expensive ones I found and they offer adjustment of -2 degrees
these seem to be the least $$ and look good but I don't know...
https://flat6motorsports.com/product...09308baf&_ss=r
Adjustable lower control arms do nothing for you in your situation
I would purchase this
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/por...man-4160500000
Then these
https://flat6motorsports.com/collect...-steer-kit-996
Then these if still not in spec.
https://flat6motorsports.com/collect...r-link-kit-996
There is a lot of fumbling around going on here. A bushing so loose as to be unable to reduce camber would have a crap load of play.
I would suggest a second opinion on this alignment.
how do you figure the adjustable control arms with up to -2 degrees of adjustment over stock won't help out in my situation given I'm replacing a 20 year old part? It's also what my installer recommended - this thread has me thinking that I need to replace everything back there so I am a little skeptical right about now because that setup was working really well up until this year.... hmmm
@Quadcammer - maybe a 2nd opinion ... sure -- but the passenger rear of my car was showing -1.0 degree while the drivers side was -2.2 - maybe this is another clue into the situation
At least with my RSS LCA they are the same length as stock with no shims. Therefore they cannot be made shorter than stock. Longer LCA create more camber. As I said before and Quadcammer also said something is not right if they can't get both sides close to the same. Every piece should be inspected. You probably could use new LCA but I was trying to stop you from wasting money on adjustable ones. In my opinion the way you describe it they will not solve the issue.
ah ok so you already have RSS rear lower control arms.... didn't know that.... I have RSS in the front - they have been great...
if they can't get both sides close to the same that means one side is off.... the drivers rear to be exact.... and I saw that as he was turning the eccentric and watching the alignment values - I was under the car with him as he was showing me - we can get a minimum of -2.2 and no less... of course I will inspect as we are shooting for -1.5 - ve camber on all 4 corners
I see what your saying about the adjustable control arms - but if they are adjustable we can also *reduce* camber which is what we want... but this means making them shorter than the factory arms so I'll stop right here because I'm in over my head in turns of understanding what this means on a 996 just to achieve a desired camber setting
Just get adjustable upper dog bones. They r much cheaper then an adjustable lower anyways. Also as other mentioned u may need adjustable toe bars after u dial in the camber.
I actually do have adjustable toes - just got back from my fav shop and my guy thinks it could be the eccentric adjustment bushing on the drivers rear that for some reason isn't giving the adjustment we want.... like HBDunn said I wan to see if Elephant racing has any upgraded eccentric bushings that will give more adjustment capability so we can reach that -ve camber in the future.
the good news in we are just gonna leave it @ -2.2 and dial in the rear @ -2.2 and front axle at -2.4 degrees... this should work well with RE71R tires
there was no play on the lower control arm bushing but them having 22 years of time I think next year I'll get some replacements as part of routine maintenance
and hbdunn your right on the $$$ about the adjustable lower control arms not helping here - thx for pointing that out bud
The good thing about the RE 71 is you can flip then on the rim if the inner edge starts wearing too much. Equals out the wear.
Glad to help, hate to see people throw away money on parts if its not needed.
10-4 on that - I've been using the RE71 R for years and love em.... that's exactly how to use that tire to give you 50% more tread life... I've even run them backwards in the dry and they work great!
the new replacement for re71R will not be able to be flipped like that.... Hoosier & Continental have made a new tire that has a very similar tread pattern to RE71 R (flippable) so that may be the new go to street/track tire....
I don't know but something doesn't seem right. I just lowered my car with coilovers and had it aligned to GT2 specs. All stock suspension and it came in perfect. The guy doing my alignment does a lot of Porsche's so maybe that's it. The rear does have two eccentric bolts, one for toe and one for camber, front has none. Most of the time only rear adjustable toe arms are needed, which you have. Like I said something is not correct.
I'm with quadcammer and c210rg on this.
How does the range of adjustment on the left rear (camber or lower) control arms compare to that on the right rear for 360� of rotation of the eccentric bolt?
If they're the same, the source for your problem is not in the bushings. Instead the arm could be bent (see the 2nd post in this thread) or the upper control arm is bent.
Tbh I'm really surprised a pro shop just sends you off with the advice you were given, as they didn't make sure that it was indeed the cause for failing to get the -2.2deg closer to the -1.0deg on the other side.
All of us contributing here are really just second guessing what the shop found exactly and their exact wording regarding their advice.
I wonder if speaking to them directly and have them explain why they think it is what they tell you would be more helpful than asking on here but then again who knows if they grasp the concept of suspension kinematics or are just turning eccentric screws and track rods till they see a screen turn from red to green...
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