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YOUR RESEARCHsharing failure knowledge - epoxy edition
Leading reported evidence
Install backward
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
Upon disassembly they noticed the disc was installed backward, it had cracked around the shaft and galled the release bearing.
Leading evidence: 'Install backward' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, The most frequently discussed action is 'Clean car was' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
In those porosity cases its a choice between doing something "ghetto", or disassembling the entire engine due to a small oil weep thats annoying as hell and can't be repaired without welding.
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Suggestion
Oil analysis came back clean, car was running fine.
Repair ), i think i'd be having some serious words
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Suggestion
I think if I purchased a car from a PCA member and even though it's obviously an AS-IS sale, if I found that kind of issue that more or less relegated the car to roller status (or provided an opportunity to gamble on a high-dollar repair), I think I'd be having some serious words with said PCA member seller.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
In those porosity cases its a choice between doing something "ghetto", or disassembling the entire engine due to a small oil weep thats annoying as hell and can't be repaired without welding.
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Suggestion
I love peeps that replace stuff that ain't broke and then when they find out it's gonna cost an arm and a leg to replace parts just to replace parts, they either come here and complain or get rid of it.
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52 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
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Generation: 20261026T142254Z · outcome-qualification-6. Deterministic extraction; no AI model inference. How we use sources
My 99 996 with 114k on it has just joined the roller parade.
I brought the car to a shop in NE to take car of a high clutch release and proactively install IMS. I had clean oil analysis.
Upon disassembly they noticed the disc was installed backward, it had cracked around the shaft and galled the release bearing. That brain fart by a PO explained the clutch issues. Which when I bought car just 4k earlier drove nicely.
They went to remove the IMS and it would not come out. Stuck. Solid. As there was a lot of scratches, scrapes around the case where the IMS sat, shop guesses someone not too experienced replaced it a while ago.
Also, on the case was the super professional epoxy repair you see in the pic. Nice, right? PO did not tell me about that. And the PPI did not catch it for obvious reasons.
So, I was faced with go ahead and install IMS and new clutch in this car knowing the case had issues. That is a $5k gamble. This is assuming when they finally got the IMS out it did not have damage to the race where it went. Highly unlikely.
Or, rebuild engine. At least it had not failed yet. So, no metal issues. That is minimum, $15k, as I was leaning towards a new short block using all my old stuff.
Used engine not appealing to me. New $25k engine zero appeal to me.
I only paid $14k for the car.
So, I sold the car as a roller.
To be honest. I liked the 996 but did not LOVE it. I have owned 994, 951, 911sc, 968 and Boxster. All as daily drivers. The Boxster was my favorite. Might pick up an early one next summer. As long it has IMS done. I love the sound of the 2.5 and the fact you can really drive on the road and not be going hyper legal speeds.
Now, enjoying the R53 Mini Cooper S(supercharged version) I just picked up. Quite fun.
That's my story!
I think if I purchased a car from a PCA member and even though it's obviously an AS-IS sale, if I found that kind of issue that more or less relegated the car to roller status (or provided an opportunity to gamble on a high-dollar repair), I think I'd be having some serious words with said PCA member seller. If those words ended up not being at all fruitful, I'd be sharing the full purchase history with my fellow members/users on here - i.e. I for one have ZERO desire to go through the same or similar with either a part or a car and this just ends up making all transactions seem more risky and sucks for everyone trying to buy or sell somthing. Good luck, that's a ****ty situation no matter if you can absorb the loss.
The car is already sold.
And, I did let the former owner know about the situation. I didn't ask for anything. Just let him know that this was a sub=optimal situation. He had seen the case. So, make your own conclusions.
For me, life is too short to hold a grudge. And that Cooper S makes a sweet whine when the supercharger spins up.
Yea that really sucks big time. Sorry to hear about that, especially that it was a PCA member. Dunno what the hell he was thinking, all that work installing a clutch and IMSB when it's obvious he didn't have a clue what he was doing. Anyhow, hope you have better luck next time. My previous P-car was a Boxster and I would highly recommend it for a very fun and well balanced street car.
The pic does not show case damage. Just epoxy smeared on the case seam. Was there visible cracking around the bolts? They might have been seeping and some Asshat didn't know about the encapsulated bolt TSB for early cars. What bearing had the PO put in? LN?
"The pic does not show case damage. Just epoxy smeared on the case seam. Was there visible cracking around the bolts? They might have been seeping and some Asshat didn't know about the encapsulated bolt TSB for early cars. What bearing had the PO put in? LN?"
^This^ ??? Sell the car as a "roller" because the clutch is slipping, and it's got epoxy on the case? You made it sound like they epoxy'd the imsb into the case...that's not what the photo shows...Seems like there are some pretty large info gaps in this story...
So you sold it as a Roller with the engine in? And at a reduced cost??? Something's strange here. If it was just to stop a leak from not using a sealed bolt I would be kicking myself...
This needs more explanation. Clutch was installed wrong, understood. Oil analysis came back clean, car was running fine. You decided to do IMS for no reason, saw that case is cracked and sold as a roller?
If the car was running fine, why not put in the clutch and keep on driving it. You obviously drove it for 4k miles and it drove fine, so why dump it as a roller?
Kevin - I thought you only paid $3k more than you sold your 968 for when you bought it? You were asking $9,000 for the 968, which would put you in the 996 at a max of $12k (assuming you got full asking price for the 968). I hope that's the case because it would be less of a hit for you.
I see from your post when you first got the car that it had the IMS Guardian on it. Hmm, makes me wonder if there was something else the PO was hiding from you.
So why exactly was it a roller? Dis the shop jack something up trying to remove the "stuck" IMSB?
It sounds like the po or his wrench was trying to do the IMSB, pooched that, and threw it all back together - poorly - to dump it.
I see some shoddy workmanship, but the part where a runner turned into a roller despite no damage actually taking place is eluding me.
Is it a roller because the condition of the motor is unknown and nobody wanted to deal with straightening it out?
Other than the mysterious epoxy/JB Weld, the motor is intact (at least as a core)...it does seem like there is some data that has been omitted...or dumping it as a roller was the quickest way to fix an impulse-bought '99.
I also hope the '99 gets a second chance...it would suck to see one get parted out due to some sloppy workmanship...
Regardless, I hope the Cooper turns out t be the right car for you. Good luck.
Sounds like the clutch was toast and he didn't want to sink the $$ into a new clutch given the questions surrounding the IMSB. I'll bet the mechanic was the buyer of the car and wiping out the accrued bill was part of the deal - just my guess on all of it.
You all need to stop huffing glue and read the post.
No panic or fear. I bought a high mile 996 after looking for months. Was prepared to spend $5k to bring up to snuff.
When the shop could not remove the IMS easily and had all sorts of signs that it was installed poorly I decided to not spend the money. Simple and rationale.
Why not keep driving it? You can always sell it as a roller when the engine is toast. That's part of the risk of buying a roller that the core might be bad.
PCA Member = guy who pays $30/year for a magazine subscription.
I always wonder why people actually think it means anything more than that. I can tell you that I know a lot more about and take better care of my stuff as compared to most car club members. It doesn't mean ****.
I don't think the membership necessarily implies mechanical skill - I think the point was that a fellow PCA member would be less likely to sell you a car with known issues.
Unfortunately, that's pure fiction. After reading what people think is acceptable behavior (example: Yank out the IMS Guardian as soon as it fires off and dump the car on CarMax - a practice that far most people actually DEFEND), I always expect the worst and hope to be pleasantly surprised.
I'm dying to know what the epoxy/JB Weld was covering up - but I suspect we'll never know.
I love peeps that replace stuff that ain't broke and then when they find out it's gonna cost an arm and a leg to replace parts just to replace parts, they either come here and complain or get rid of it.
You didn't have to replace IMS. Engine was running fine and the only thing that seemed wrong or failing was your clutch. Hopefully, the next buyer gets a new clutch and is able to drive it on the original IMS for 100k miles without hanging around here and continually worrying.
Paul, I'm going to take a moment and defend the PCA member. I think there is an expectation of a little better level of integrity with a PCA member. While all generalizations have exceptions I think this is true. I know when I sold my 944s2 I felt it important to disclose everything I knew was wrong with the car and especially to another PCA member. Ones reputation should be of utmost importance.
I love peeps with good reading comprehension. I never complained. Just shared an odd outcome.
Now, let me go put on my best driving boots. Unbutton my Prada shirt 4 buttons. Slip on my Richard Mille(set to Milan-time naturally) as I place a fresh, cold Pamplemousse sparkling water into my Cooper's cupholder and fondly remember most of the time I spent in this forum with Mssrs. Ireland et al.
Don't forget a touch of gel or mousse in the chest pubes - you really want that manly carpet to be properly coiffed in case you develop the uncontrollable urge to take your car in for a $300 oil change.
The dealership Ireland uses must love him. I wonder how much money he burned trading something in for the 996, trading that in for the 997, and dumping that to get his "new" 2013 GTI?
Has to be at least one Rolex worth, even if it's a crappy submariner with metal outlines around the characters and crown guards.
nkg didn't ask for his money back after noticing that the 996 title was actually for a '76 Camaro or an '82 Oldsmobile - so he definitely gets more street cred than Mr. $8,000 Porsche @ Jalopnik...
Does it work or did they just think it would work?
Personally I think it's mostly harmless, looks bad, but nothing to really worry about. Well, as long as they didn't glue the whole thing together.
Indifferent on the IMS, but it depends on what the deal looks like when it's out.
Epoxy has its place. I have had to use it on some cases with porosity that could not be repaired in any other fashion.
It treats a symptom, so its a band aid. Band aids seldom last very long.
In those porosity cases its a choice between doing something "ghetto", or disassembling the entire engine due to a small oil weep thats annoying as hell and can't be repaired without welding.
I have repaired a 150,000 dollar (at the time, 300K today) 547/1 Fuhrmann 4 Cam engine with JB weld. I did that in 2000, and today its still dry as a bone. The owner got lucky, but now the car is worth well over 2M and it has a JB welded crankcase.
Don't laugh about pigmat, I built a test engine in the early days and it had porosity, instead of tearing it down we just safety wired a pig mat under the engine and changed it after every session. It lived like that for 14,000 track miles, till the crankshaft snapped into at Road America.
See that, OP could've had a JR block and not even have known it. lol. j/k But I think OP jumped the gun on this one personally, however doesn't surprise me as he admitted he was luke warm on owning a 996 in the first place. They are usually the first ones to jump ship at anything they find alarming.
I'm being framed! I just got around to looking at this thread. After all the hype of epoxy I've been seeing the last day or so I thought this had to be something good, but this is pretty dull. If it hasn't picked up by the end of the thread, I'm bringing the phone thread back!
