Rollover

Sigh. Me and my 996 parted ways this week. Conditions: wet highway, uphill, right turn, 45-55mph? I'd describe it as the back kicking out and it went straight for a rocky hillside toward the right. Nothing audible except eerie silence. I tried to correct - like you, I'm used to my 996 getting squirrely, but typically from starts and hard right turns- nothing. As I was still headed toward rocky hillside, I then tried hard right, whether I could spin it fullly and keep it away from bank. It didn't. I hit right rear first - not really bad, may have got more dirt than rock. Front continued on around (in original direction) and the dang thing then rolled over. Didn't even break either side glass or windshield - no damage to front at all. Tow truck flipped it on the driver side (needless insult to injury) to make it a full roll. I got out with no problem. My question here: could something have broken? Wheels appear straight - so I don't think an axle. Could right side brake have seized up? I didn't have present of mind to really look it over closely, shocked as I was. Or did I just blow it? I've owned it for 10 years, from 36k to 106k miles, it was my daily driver since 2010, so it was well maintained. Also, I've never felt it behave like that and have driven in lots of weather. Were "summer" tires a culprit? I just don't think so. New Pzeros in June, $1100 of work just last week. Second question: insurance has been fine. Will get $16.xk from it ("excellent" condition) and buyback salvage ($650 !). I have 3 offers on it up to $7k. What should I reasonably expect. I know there's at least $14k of parts including engine, excluding hood, quarter panels, etc. Thanks for reading.

In process and afterwards of getting feet back on ground:

Sorry to hear/see that. Glad you were not hurt On the bright side, it's another example of how well designed and built these care are. A full rollover and your walked away unhurt

First, glad you are ok. Sorry, but no brake seized up or axle broke or anything like that happened. I dare say your brain seized. Sorry, but a single car accident in the wet is almost certainly the driver's fault and not a mechanical failure. So, you just blew it. But at least you were not hurt so move on. BTW, for the benefit of the CA Porsche owners I don't know where you were but here in CA we just a got a bunch (well, half a bunch) of rain and the roads become very slick as the rain combines the oil and dust and what have you. In some cases you can see suds which means one is driving on really soapy slick pavement. This first rain after a prolonged dry spell always catches some drivers unawares, and sports car drivers are particularly at risk since they become so accustomed to their cars' grip in the dry. As for your second question, personally I would not want the car back and part it out. Who wants to clutter up his driveway/garage with a wrecked car that slowly gets picked over by strangers and slowly dissolves into a pile of disassembled greasy/oily parts? I would however add that if you can get $16K for the car and then buy it back with a salvage title for $650 and then turn around and sell it for $7K that I would do. However, I have to really question the wide differences in prices. When I was given the buyback price of my wrecked Cayman S (totaled when another driver t-boned my car) the insurance company quoted me the same price as Oklahoma Foreign, around $17K. I took the car as part of the settlement -- the other driver's insurance wasn't enough to cover the settlement fully -- and put the car for sale at an auction facility that among other things held a salvage car sale every week. (This was/is a big auction facility moving in some years 90K vehicles.) I sold the car at this salvage auction for over $3K more than I was allowed for by the insurance company and Oklahoma Foreign. If (big if) you can get the car for $650 and flip it for $7K do so, but I would advise you to not turn into a Porsche salvage business with just one car in stock...

Is that an intersection in the background and was that where you were coming from making a right turn moving toward the cars location? If so, on a wide street like that I'm surprised 45mph was enough to leave you that far from the intersection with enough momentum to roll. Must have been some slick surface at work, oil or something?

Glad you are OK. What was the temp? Summer tires become really unpredictable in cold(er) conditions

Macster, I think you're right. Please tell me more about the limit that was put on you on selling? I haven't been told about that (yet). Aggravation, no, I was headed toward that intersection. I wasn't making a right turn, there was a right-handed curve in the road. Temp was not bad 50s. Should have been OK.

Just curious...did you drive it home? Or is it still drivable?

Sucks.. 16k seems a little low.

Sorry to hear this man. In essence, you did this in 996 with more consequences. 2 Porsche CRASH Nordschleife Nürburgring 10.08.2014 Touristenfahrten - YouTube

^ Was that the Synchronized Spin Out competition? They are both very lucky in more ways than one!

Glad to hear you walked away without injuries. Also glad to see how strong these cars are built.

John: Not sure if you'rejoking, but no that picture above is it putting on the tow truck. There was gasoline all over the place - that's the first thing I noticed when we stopped moving. Because of that I didn't try to start it. I really didn't know the damage. It was on its back for ? 30 minutes? Brake fluid was pooring out the front passenger side (which i think is weird, reservoir on driver side, right?). It wouldn'tsurprise me at all that it would restart. Radio/wipers/windows etc work fine. And You can probably see, no real damage to the motor area. RRTEC - I dunno, kbb was lower and NADA was right at that for EC 106,800 miles. I'm OK with i$16k Kalashnikov - I guess so. I need to accept it. But it didn't just kick out from the rear. It was already pointing itself toward the right and going strong toward it. Thanks.

Re the video again, notice that as it starts kicking out from the rear/left, the momentum carrying it into the right-hand turn carries it to the left. We were going straight toward the right, even after lifting and correction steering. That's what's weird to me.

Glad you walked away from it. The photos are quite dramatic but they also show how strong the chassis is. Did the tires have good tread on them and were they inflated to the proper pressure? Also, did you remember the rear tires hitting anything on the road, even a small bump? Could be bump steering upsetting the rear exacerbated by the low traction in the wet.

Been there. Didn't enjoy it. Glad you are ok

You likely didn't notice the rear was coming out, like a progressive slide, until it was too late to correct. Glad you're okay, cars are replaceable.

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I know it's easy to criticize after the fact. Lifting while in a slide will make you snap around faster than you can count 1. Glad you are ok.

Holy crap. Sorry about the car, but stoked that you walked away in one piece.

Surprises me that it flipped like that. I have seen a lot of cars spin on dry tracks with race tires. The wet road and smooth pavement should have just resulted in a spin. I am glad to hear you are OK. I am, as always, super impressed with the strength of the cars. I also like that you intend to buy another

Man, you are the lucky one to survive without injury. Your Porsche gave you plenty of decent driving time while in your possession.Time to find another one.

Wow. Nice to see the strength of the 996. Sorry for the loss of your 996. So glad no one was hurt, but some lucky individual is going to get a nice engine out of it!

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Not sure what limit you are referring to? My new Cayman S was hit and declared a total loss. The other driver's insurance coverage (limit $50K) was not enough to cover the car. I had just bought it (new) 4 weeks prior and paid $50.6K (not including taxes/title/etc.). (The car was marked down -- by the dealer no less -- from $62.6K.) The other driver's insurance coverage was just $50K. (I spoke with her insurance provider and gave it some heck for writing such low insurance coverage especially when the owner of the car, the driver's mother, had a house at risk should the insurance not cover damages. My Dad sold insurance (commercial insuance) and impressed upon me the importance of having sufficient coverage to protect one's assets in the event of a claim. My Dad felt it criminal for someone to write coverage which wasn't enough to protect the insured's assets sufficiently.) The other insurance company wanted me to turn the claim over to my insurance. I refused. My insurance company would have insisted on having the car repaired (the damage total was over $45K and going up when the "exotic car claims adjuster" stopped counting and declared the car a total loss) or would have forced me to accept a lower settlement. What happened was the other driver's insurance company gave me around $40K plus $1500 for loss of use of the vehicle, plus something for medical. (I inhaled a bunch of airbag fumes/dust which resulted in a severely irritated nose and throat that lasted for a while... should have gone to emergency room as the ER doctors are aware of this condition and would have dealt with it promptly.) The insurance company allowed me $17K for the car with its salvage title. Thus I end up with nearly $45K in "cash" (checks) and the $17K car. I had contacted Oklahoma Foreign (OF) and after talking with someone there, supplying him with the pics, it was agreed should I elect to sell the car with the salvage title OF would give me $17K for the car. This was the same price the insurance company assigned to the vehicle and I did not divulge what value the insurance company had assigned to the vehicle. I spoke with the general manager (GM) of an auction facility near me and he agreed to let me put the car into the weekly salvage car auction. I could elect to accept what the auction brought or decline if the price wasn't up to the $17K I already had on the table from OF. The GM at the facility gave the car top billing -- so to speak -- putting it right smack dab in the middle of the auction floor along with info I provided regarding the car: a copy of the car's sticker for one thing. On the day of the auction I was present and while the auction started out slow the price climbed to over $20K. I agreed to let the car go for that amount. After I supplied the auction facility with the salvage title I received a check for the amount the car sold for. I offered to pay any fees but the GM declined. I asked about buying a car and he said he would put me in touch with a broker which implied I would have to pay the usual fees associated with buying a car. This was what I expected the GM to say. Anyhow, there was no limit set on what I could sell the car for. There was the value assigned to the car by the other driver's insurance company, which just so happened to agree with what another party (Oklahoma Foreign) believed the car worth. Before the other driver's insurance company came up with its valuation of the car, I did get some preliminary offers from various businesses -- body shops -- for the car as is where is of just $6K or so, which I declined and after the other insurance company and I came to terms realized these preliminary offers were real low ball offers. It was these low offers that prompted me to wonder that the insurance company valued the car at $650 and yet you received offers of $7K. As I covered above, my experience is insurance company has a pretty good idea of what the car is worth as do businesses that buy cars in the condition your car is in. I got "lucky" I think in selling the car through an auction for more than this. (Might add that I suspect the buyers at some point would have liked to have their money back. Not too long ago I did a search for this car using its VIN and found the car, what was left of it, for sale for $300. While one hears of stories of someone buying a wreck for pennies and getting the car fixed and back on the road for more pennies, there is the other side and that is someone paying top dollar for a wrecked car and then having to face up to fact the car is not rebuildable or afterwards is just not as valuable as one hoped for at the outset.)

Thanks Macster - that was clear. And thanks to all for the empathy and well wishes. I'm feeling OK and am looking forward to the next one now. I do feel fortunate. 996: 10 years of learning, continued to provide enjoyment, held its value, and protected me in the end - what's not to appreciate? We had talked about dropping comprehensive just a few weeks back (!) - so glad I did not. Hope my story helps someone out there.

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We have all had close calls, sometimes not of our own making, but sometimes of our own making. I won't bore you with the close calls I've had over the years, more from my own fault than I care to admit. What happened to you could have happened to anyone of us. There but for the grace of God... You had a bit of bad luck that the situation got out of control. It happens. What really matters is you are ok and no one else was injured. It never hurts to remember that. Puts things into perspective. Your story helps in that it reinforces just how quickly things can go all **** up, in the proverbial blink of an eye. We forget sometimes just how powerful and fast these cars are. We get acclimated to the power of these cars and forget that it can bite back at any time. I know after reading of your incident I'm making a conscious effort to cool my jets, especially in this rainy weather we are having here, so I for one appreciate you sharing your experience. Do what you think is best with your car and get another Porsche and get back on the horse, or not. Up to you. Whatever you decide will be the right decision, I'm sure.

Sounds like snap oversteer.... Porsche has been tweaking it out of the rear-engined 911 since 1963. Curious, did your car have PSM?

That's hard to look at, glad you are ok. The 996 is very tame compared to the earlier cars, but when that rear end passes a certain slip angle you are just along for the ride.

No PSM - it's just a standard Carrera coupe

Glad you came out of it OK. Thanks for your honest sharing. These cars are so powerful under the slightest of acceleration. The rear wheels can put you into a slide in slow motion as the car suddenly decides that it wants to go **** end first. I was NOT going fast. Only about 40MPH on an on ramp. This happened to me and there was no way of bringing the car out of the spin. I ended up glancing a safety barrier **** end first in the snow. Mine was on a slight up hill right hander. We have to be extra careful especially when the roads are NOT DRY. We live and hopefully learn.

Glad you're OK. That's a shame about the car. Don't analyze it too much. You can second guess yourself to death.

How would you have faired if you had been driving a cab? Even my coupe is getting a roll bar soon.

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Why the hell did the tow truck driver roll it over on the good side? Was he just being a total dick? I would have been fuming... Or did he do you a favor? I don't get it... did they re-wreck it such that it was only worth $300 at that point?

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That is a good question. With the roll hoops that pop up during a rollover and the reinforced windshield "A" pillars, I would expect a 996 convertible to do pretty well. ...I'm not gonna volunteer to test it out though...

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+1 Good luck with the insurance and hopefully your not feeling to sore.

Even in the wet, I've never gotten a tire to break traction in my 996 without specifically trying hard to do so. I guess I'm calling shenanigans on the "gosh, not sure what happened". I'd have told whomever showed up to the scene the same thing, though.

The fact that much of the car is resting on the A-pillar - and it didn't get there gently - without any noticeable deflection is seriously impressive. I'm familiar with rollover cases where passengers in seemingly more substantial cars sustain serious injury due to the roof and one's head sharing the same space. I need to print a copy of that pic out and save it for the next time the wife and I are car shopping. "See? We DEFINITELY need another Porsche. Because safety!"

In that exact position - with much of the car's weigh resting on the roof just behind the A-pillar - I can't imagine that you'd have walked away unharmed in a cab. A rollover on flat ground is one thing, but in this case, you'd have lost half a foot of headroom in a hurry.

[Crocodile Dundee voice] You call that a rollover? That's not a rollover. ForumRunner_20150213_194645.png ForumRunner_20150213_194722.png This is a rollover.

Yeah, as I recall, there was some speed and sliding and turf involved with your...inversion.

First rule of DE is if you trash your car on track is flatbed it to a corn field and call the cops. Just sayin'

And a passenger would not have faired too well in this hardtop!

Passenger/instructor walked away. Had a long talk with him a few months ago about WTF happened and he wanted to know what broke because he "knew I wasn't stupid enough to turn right like the car did ". We stay in touch. Emailed with him today about track dates where he instructs. Yes, there were ~95 mph speeds and a flat driver side rear in mine. Can this also be my entry in the scariest moment in a 996 thread too?

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Tow truck driver actually joked about driving it out to the ditch next to the track entrance.

Vic Elford sums up driving a 911 On Balance With Vic Elford in the Around the World Porsche 911 - Pebble Beach - YouTube

Does anyone know if our 996 cars have a Electronic Data Recorder or EDR ? Would the OP's insurance be able to capture what ? From his ECU.

Just a quick note to share two pieces of good news. 1. I am now the happy owner of a 2002 Carrera - financed from the remains of my rolled '99 - talk about Phoenix mode! 2. I found it on the for sale forum here at Rennlist

Happy, Happy, Happy! Noticeably throaty growl - did not turn the radio on for first 2 hours of driving it home, just listening to it. Awesome acceleration - can you feel 24 more hp in going from 3.4 to 3.6L? Yes, I think you can! Like the steering wheel more than on '99. Seems to ride more comfortably. I don't know if this is true, but seems the fenders stick up more, like 964 style (vs. my '99). Maybe I'm just noticing more after driving a friend's '89. But it's a more fun cockpit view. I drove straight to my mechanic and am getting IMS/RMS work. Can't wait to get it back.

Beautiful and a nice upgrade! Blessing in disguise

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Saw this car listed in the classifieds! Reminded me of mine, just higher miles and a little older, but in truly awesome condition! Congrats, for me the difference between the 3.4 and 3.6 is night and day. I drove both on multiple occasions before pulling the trigger.

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I admit, PSM has saved my bacon more times than I should have been in that situation. Question, Did Vic Elford ever teach at consult with Skip Barber???????