58 captured repliesDiscussion pagination complete · Source accounts, not a confirmed diagnosis
THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHFailed cat's Went with the LN/FSI x-over setup.
Leading reported evidence
Install fsi/ln x-pipe
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
I installed the FSI/LN X-pipe on my wife�s 4.0 Stage II.
Leading evidence: 'Install fsi/ln x-pipe' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, The most frequently discussed action is 'Install fsi/ln x-pipe' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
Source reports, not a diagnosis or a success probability. Counts refer to discussions and can overlap.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
I continue to see rave reviews from owners in the FSI Owner's Lounge with videos and stories being posted from simple DIY installs that seem to change the character of the vehicle instantly.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
There is no need to extend the wires or change the harness as it reaches.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion · Original poster
The issue is that almost no two engines will perform 100% identical and dyno number change too much to publish..
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
I continue to see rave reviews from owners in the FSI Owner's Lounge with videos and stories being posted from simple DIY installs that seem to change the character of the vehicle instantly.
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
The changes weren't just made to the X pipe, but he even worked with various cats from the same supplier to find the perfect mix of filtering Vs sound Vs performance.
Counts describe captured discussions, not unique people or a diagnosis. Author identities are not reliably stored. Exact duplicate evidence is counted once across matching discussions; one discussion counts at most once per action/state. Multiple repairs reported together remain a combination. Suggestions and failed attempts do not establish a fix. Matches cover whole discussions and can include related faults, model variants and incomplete threads.
58 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
0 evidence records excluded for query context · 0 excluded by outcome qualification · 0 adjusted by outcome qualification.
0 acknowledgements have no verified action link; they do not establish a repair result.
Generation: 20261027T035758Z · outcome-qualification-6. Deterministic extraction; no AI model inference. How we use sources
Just unpacked them. Awesome quality of assembly.
With any luck with the weather I'll have them on this weekend.
Old units failed likely due ot the antifreeze/oil mixture they digested back when my engine failed.
Cant wait.. I want to do the tune on my engine with them
These were almost completed when I arrived at FSI in spring of last year. O got to see all 3 generations of the system go through development, and saw how Jake took the best attributes of all 3 and made one superior unit.
Based on what I have seen you will note a definite increase in the drivability of the car, especially with power below 3K RPM. The torque curve is as flat as a pancake and very linear at every point. The increases in HP are notable, but most of what you'll be feeling is the torque differences.
I also love the sound. This set up sounds nothing like any of the other X pipes I have heard on these engines. You'll note when it is installed that the O2 sensor positions are all proper, and your wires still reach. A pet peeve that Jake had about other X pipes was where the sensors were located and how nothing seemed to fit without wires being stretched to their maximum.
What you've benefited from is a system that was developed, tested and produced by an engine builder that knows these engines inside and out. This is much different than generic products that may work ok, but generally have the intricate details that make the difference left out of their design.
These are 100% Made in USA, including the proprietary catalytic converters.
The advantage of the FSI/LN setup is the cats are easily removed or replaced . With every other system on the market if the cats go bad you have to cut them out and reweld new ones in . Also for street cars that are track driven some guys want to remove the cats for max performance . If you have straight pipes made up the same dimensions of the cats you unbolt 4 clamps , remove the cats and install the straight pipes . When you get home put the cats back in .
Like anything else not everything is for everyone . I saw these in action on the Dyno . I also watched Jud at FSI install them while on the Dyno laying on his back like a lot of guys in their driveway . The fit was perfect and flowed very well . Buy them if you like or need the flexibility . Look elsewhere if that's not important to you . It's nice to have options 👍
I picked it because Jake had the numbers on the performance and I like the design.
I haven't seen much in the way of Fed legal cats under about 2500..
But honestly the bit of shopping around I did all the ones I liked the construction of were 2200 to 3500..
The assembly looks very nice, and fits in a surprisingly small box when shipped.
also,, many of the sources I did call were out of stock on cats generally.
No question that the FSI x-pipe is a "premium" product but has any performance data been made public? I see nothing on the LN website. I've been lead to believe "x-pipe" designs sacrifice some low end for larger high end gains and "cross-over" designs focused on low to mid range gains at the expense of the big peak number. Hoping someday the general public gets to see some results from the skunk works testing.
[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:]
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlist.com-vbulletin/867x339/image_3_4_23_at_4_14_pm_bb053abd9ba03d91514a1c95812c7773c3ffd099.jpg
When I talked to FSI they had done before and after dyno runs, their test car really liked the setup,
I was told to expect the torque to start sooner and be flatline across the RPM band sooner,
My engine is a 3.8 update and has a piston update.
We shall see how it goes, I kinda pulled the trigger based on how happy I am so far with the motor,
and having the guy the did the technical design of the build design the exhaust seemed like a decent choice.
It's been shown that there is some power to be gained with exhaust mods and I do believe the 10hp and 14tq claimed here are credible. This x-pipe is actually on my short list so I hope asking questions isn't taken negatively. What I would like to see are dyno runs with the x-pipe vs. stock cats vs. a high flow cat cross-over system. Previous discussions indicate this might have been done. It would be great to see more videos like this.
You Tube
The issue is that almost no two engines will perform 100% identical and dyno number change too much to publish..
I get why they just list a range, My 3.8 has just enough small extra tweaks done that its unlikely another 3.8 would see the
same gains, no sense living with a dead cat on one pipe, i ned the system to go ready to pass emissions in Oregon..
I also like the way the LN/FSI piece comes apart so installing it without tearing the rear
bumper and stuff off is kind of a good thing. (this is a like it wasn't a requirement..
)
I would argue a dyno with any 3.6 or 3.8 would be enough to get a rough estimate of potential gains but I don't want to derail your thread any more.
I'm a fan of the design of this x-pipe as well and because of that I am considering paying the premium over another well known x-pipe. Did you happen to weigh the FSI x-pipe? Beyond the power gains are there any weight savings over the stock cats? Enjoy what is arguably the finest x-pipe available today!
I installed the FSI/LN X-pipe on my wife�s 4.0 Stage II. It has the stock manifolds and a set of Fister modified mufflers. It feels like it picked up more power in the low to mid range area. The unit is very well made and was very easy to install. I am attaching several photos.
Mark
The Cargraphic X-pipe also has removable cats. I know their advertisement pics usually still show an old spring-type design. The pics is from 2019 so this design aspect has been around a few years..
Imagined and I would gladly pay the premium, but what I can�t stop imagining is what it must be like to be you�
I am not sure what your deal is. Jealousy that someone is in a position to buy something they want without worrying about cost. Envy that someone can work hard with a take it or leave it attitude and create a successful well supported brand. Or a combination of both, but it comes off as pathetic, insecure, and screams fragile ego.
But is he wrong though? He stated a fact and the response was pretty emotional. With that said the main focus of this system would be FSI engine owners, not most other people and I get it. While I find the FSI mouth pieces on this forum obnoxious, I wouldn�t necessarily say it�s snake oil either. FSI does make good components.
What is snake oil about this? There are no claims of magic Hp figures, he says 10, I have seen the YouTube videos myself. The $3k price tag is a take it or leave it American made and engineering time, I have seen the prototypes and knowing Jake can assure it is all American made.
The OP simply posted to share about a product he bought. He didn�t say anything about this product vs any other product or that this product is the greatest and everyone should buy one. The response to Jake/FSI from some adults on here is honestly astonishing to the point where it is comical. If it is a war against FSI they are waging they have lost along time ago, their need to spew negativity every chance they get is proof.
I get it but and the x-pipe is a nice part, emotional responses are just as inflammatory as the initial comment. I�m happy the OP and others like
@168Sierra
are elated with theirs. Just a lot of the pot calling the kettle black here.
Give me an example in this thread. If someone made a thread about the German cats do you think the OP would jump on and say �imagine buying those POS when you can have these�? I honestly doubt it.
No one said these were POS or substandard in any way? Someone made a comment about the price that you didn�t like� that was it. Anyway I look forward to seeing more updates on new 996 parts.
The more products for the 996 the better. Creates opportunity for buyer to choose which one they want. Don't see anything wrong with that. Bring on the competition.
I don't see O2 sensor bungs on that. My understanding is that many aftermarket x-pipes put them in awkward locations.
Also I personally don't mind paying a little more for a product that:
is made from top quality materials
is made in the USA (this one has been getting more important to me)
is thoroughly engineered and tested
actually does what it claims to do
That pipe has the post o2s just after the cat but in the other side so u cant see them. Its basically the stockish version of what i just installed. U have to cross the wires but they reach the o2 plugs. Although u have to pull the plug out of the retainer. Not sure if thats the same as the flat6 version but i cant inmagine they were able to get theirs any closer.
I think I'll buy from the builder for Porsche for all Cup & Motorsports exhausts at a cheaper price. Not a hard decision unless you've drank the kool aid.
I do not think that is advised, I think you have to either extend the wires or relocate the bungs. Pretty sure the post reads temp and will dump fuel to cool the cats, so if you have them crossed it is comparing the wrong bank. For the pre fueling is controlled from the O2 sensors so crossing those could have major implications.
I do not think that is true, I think this is a common misconception that all post cat O2 sensors don�t do anything with fueling, but some actually do. I actually had a conversation with SuperSprint who designs a setup for our cars and they were adamant to not cross them and they needed extended. Pre cat and post cat should be connected to the same bank.
That said you are welcome to do what you want. Buy what you want, install how you want, I just don�t want someone to read this and not do more research around crossing them.
On the factory system on the drivers side of car the plugs r precat (black plug) for bank 1 and the post cat for bank 2 (grey plug). Pass side is precat bank 2(black plug) and post cat bank 1(grey plug)
On the cup x-pipe the post cats r on the same side as the precat, so the post cat sensor wire has to go to the opposite side of the car. There is no need to extend the wires or change the harness as it reaches.
There is no reading the pre and post cats from the opposite banks. U will have to do this with any cat-ed x-pipe.
Yes as long as the pre-cat/post-cat are on the same side life is good. So I am not sure why reference was made to crossing the wires because you aren�t crossing the wires. The SuperSprint isn�t a x-pipe and the 2ndary is far downstream, other cross over designs are similar. In this case you cannot cross the wires.
I do, but mostly because I came into $1200 worth of free M1. I would still probably use it anyway seeing as my motor could probably run on crushed rocks and still outlive the average M96.0
I hadn't thought of it, The cross pipe setup is lighter than the factory cats+pipes using the bicepterometer.. I'll see if I can do that I hope to have them on in the next day or so. Shipping weight on the cross pipe IIRC was 22lbs..
Not sure if you planning on doing some sound clips but I use an Olympus lapel mic and place it around the license place with a long cable going to a DJI Osmo Action or alike. Found that set up worked really well.
With the exception of two of the X pipes sold, all the rest to date have been fitted to FSI engines. This is what the systems were designed for as a primary objective.
Other engines with larger than factory displacement can also see the benefits that are designed into the system. The cross section at the merge was a big part of the time that went into the development, and the cats we use are proprietary made for FSI. These are not the typical HJC cats that the rest of the industry seems to use as their go- to performance cat.
In just a matter of a few weeks 20 of these units have been sold, and the reviews of them on the FSI owner's Lounge have been the rage amongst the drivers. Generally folks are noting how well the system fits right out of the box, as well as how the system was made with things in mind that are often overlooked with other X pipes, especially the positioning of the O2 sensors, the very thick mounting flanges, and the high quality V band clamps. The material is much heavier gauge than the other X pipes I've seen, and thought it isn't shiny, the Tig welds won't crack over time. Some videos have been posted on the Owner's Lounge, and I'll see if those owner will share them to the FSI Facebook page so you guys can see them, too. One car was a 996 cab with the top down, and a GoPro 360 with awesome audio and video.
I tested 3 cars at FSI yesterday, and two of them had this X pipe. The differences in those two cars were night and day as a driving experience. The exhaust note is something that can't be achieved any other way, based on what I have seen in my 13 months of testing at FSI so far.
Seeing how far Jake took this from the original concept, through the stages of development was eye opening. The changes weren't just made to the X pipe, but he even worked with various cats from the same supplier to find the perfect mix of filtering Vs sound Vs performance.
Again no one is forced to buy a $3k exhaust from any dealer
but until someone proves them wrong I’ll stick with them
I’m a an innocent until proven guilty type of guy
No problem with price here, at least not when compared to comparable pieces. Looks like a nice part.
Since it’s tuned for bigger displacement, I wonder how well it would work for a 6.2….
So its interesting how many folks assume that dealing with FSI is by folks that dont know anything..
I spent over a year picking who did my engine, it was based on a ton of research and 40 years of
racing motor toys from 50CC dirt bikes to eventually crew chief on various other venues toys.
I talked to a final list of about 6 different builders, and based my pick on what I thought the total
package value was for the result.
Hartec was definitely an option but at the time especially with covid, the international shipping
was just too much hassle, Customs waits were hitting months for friends of mine with performance
engines coming from multiple countries.
Most builders were eliminated QUICKLY when they started out trying to build me a ALMS engine...
I always emailed a description of the issues I was concerned about. If they blew off my concern conversation over.
If they addressed them we had more to talk about.
Several argued with me about
:
1. I wanted Nikasil.
2. NO ferrous sleeves (I have my own reasons based on experience with them in other engines.. )
3. Clear build status and timeline.
So are these 200Cel cats? They look like they are.
I have a FSI 4.0 with M&M Long tube headers and their 200 cel U torque cats with fabspeed supercups and it is insanely loud and deep and violent. Fine on the track but I am going back to street.
The cats have the biggest effect on the deep raspy sound as they performed similar with my PSE mufflers with bypass open.
I sold my stock cats and can't compare stock against the 200's
Wondering if these would sound similar or different. Trying to get the low tones removed a bit.
I didn't read through this whole thread. I just got an email notification with your post. Anyways. I have an FSI 4.0 and the x pipe, and PSE. I just recently swapped the cats out.
With the cats out, and PSE on ( valves closed), it's about as docile as a church mouse. Happy to answer any specific questions.
There was a thread a couple of years ago where Jake told us that x-pipes actually decreased performance on stock 996s (I might be wrong, my memory is good, it is just short). If he has overcome these issues, that is fantastic. I wonder if the HP and Torque claims are for larger displacement FSI engines, or for engines with other work done (valves, etc)?
Everything about the FSI X Pipe was based around engines of larger displacement. The stock engine has always been happiest with stock components. Very seldom has FSI done anything with stock displacements, except for some Spec 996s. In the time that I have been at FSI/ LN since the transition began I haven't seen anything smaller than a 3.8 built, and those are from a 3.4 crankcase.
It seems that those who bought X pipes and were not already FSI owners also have plans to buy an FSI engine later. I know one buyer that did this only because his stock cats had failed and he had to do something, so he bought the X pipe with cats while he saves for an engine later.
There's also 2 different X pipes, one optimized for 3.8- 4.1L engines, and another for the R43 and R44. These use different cats (custom made larger/ altered cell count), different primary diameters and an altered cross section at the merge.
Not a bad way to go if someone needs cats and wants to step the engine up later.
Otherwise I would not expect any gains from a stock engine using an X pipe unless you have a desire for a very unique exhaust note, and gains that you can't see on a dyno. I continue to see rave reviews from owners in the FSI Owner's Lounge with videos and stories being posted from simple DIY installs that seem to change the character of the vehicle instantly.
This is a source reference. Confirm exact model applicability in the original material.
