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YOUR RESEARCHOil level - dipstick or dash display
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Replace with only 3000 miles)
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But I am driving it only some weekends and that's why I change the oil every year, without worrying about the miles (last one was changed with only 3000 miles)...
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I trust the dipstick, I use the sensor as a secondary source of information.
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Suggestion
If your use is not standard in one or other way, you have adjust your maintenance intervals (and that is also mentioned on the specs)
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Suggestion
The only time I ever checked any oil levels when the engine was hot was when I was a gas station attendant in the 60's and part of my job was checking the oil in cars so that I could sell the customers some oil.
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Suggestion
i only look at the dash level when cold after sitting overnight, and i only check dipstick when warm/hot, after it has sat with engine off for 10 minutes or so for oil to drain back prior to reading.
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Suggestion
The only time I ever checked any oil levels when the engine was hot was when I was a gas station attendant in the 60's and part of my job was checking the oil in cars so that I could sell the customers some oil.
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Suggestion
i only look at the dash level when cold after sitting overnight, and i only check dipstick when warm/hot, after it has sat with engine off for 10 minutes or so for oil to drain back prior to reading.
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Suggestion
The only time I ever checked any oil levels when the engine was hot was when I was a gas station attendant in the 60's and part of my job was checking the oil in cars so that I could sell the customers some oil.
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@Flat6 Innovations
Anecdotally my car burns hardly any oil, but I�ve decided to track it more accurately from now on. In Jake�s YouTube video concerning this subject (bore scoring video #3b, I believe), it is stated to add 1/2 of 1 quart when the min oil line is reached. But my �99 always has a bit of discrepancy between the dash display and the oil dipstick. Rarely do the levels match, even when the car is on a level surface, is cold, and has not been run for at least 24 hours or more.
Currently my oil dipstick shows the level about 1/8� above the min level but my dash display is indicating its at the minimum level. In reference to Jake�s recommendation, when should I add the 1/2 of 1 quart? Now or wait until the oil dipstick finally indicates at min level?
i watched jake's video as well. i only look at the dash level when cold after sitting overnight, and i only check dipstick when warm/hot, after it has sat with engine off for 10 minutes or so for oil to drain back prior to reading.
i think you should go by the cold reading on the dash, just be consistent.
Sensors go bad so when a vehicle has a dipstick I would always use that.
I read if oil in a 996 is low there can be starvation which can lead to burned bearings or other catastrophic engine damage so I would not let it go below the half mark, and if too high the engine can smoke so I would not let it go above the half mark.
So put in enough oil to get it to the half mark.
Viscosity and brand that's another story...
I mean no disrespect but this thread isn’t about how much oil to fill the engine to. It’s about following the advice of FSI on how to easily, safely and accurately track oil consumption between changes.
I tagged
@Flat6 Innovations
for the sole purpose of getting their attention in hopes of receiving a response. This will allow others, who may have seen the video and pondered the same question, to get a clear answer.
Jake Raby starts the oil consumption segment at minute - 9:30 on the Bore Scoring 3B for those that are curious. He begins that segment saying both the electronic indicator and the manually dipstick should be measured and lined up together equally. Based on some comments he's made in the past of other threads, I would think that the manual dipstick would be a more accurate tool over an electronic indicator system especially if you think there is a malfunction occurring. But since the oil electronic systems are so widely used in Porsches, he usually references those systems from what I can remember. I believe some of the Porsches didn't even have a manual dipstick. I think that's why it's always a good idea to measure exactly how much oil you're adding when you do an oil change. Overfilling oil in these cars has been a big problem. I personally looked to purchasing a 997 with a dead engine and the owner confessed he killed it by overfilling the oil which was confirmed by a well respected Porsche shop. I appreciated his honesty and he had such a beautiful car, but I didn't want to risk the cost of rebuilding the engine on a 997.1.
Since we're talking oil consumption and you noted that your car doesn't burn much oil. I'm curious, what brand and viscosity are you using?
Yep! Check with stick when cold(overnight) and level. Measure how many ounces you add, write down with date and any pertinent info like "tracked the H out of it mo/day/yr" Compare to e-guage but trust the stick. BTW make sure you fully seat the stick when measuring.
I've been using Driven DT40 since 2016. She appears to burn less than 1/2 of a quart over the course of 6 months (~1000 to 2500 miles). Maybe 1/4 of a quart if that.
Does my 2000 C4 Cab even have a dash oil level display? If so, I haven't noticed it yet and would rather not pay any attention to it because there is a dipstick in the engine and that's what I'm always going to use to check the oil level.
FWIW, my 2008 BMW 335i only has an electronic oil level indicator and I HATE it! I'm an "old school kind of guy" and it ain't no big deal to grab a rag, clean the end of the dipstick off, stick it in again and pull it out again to check the oil level.
Nothing better than this to check the oil level in your car, IMO. Just make sure your car is on level ground when you do it. LOL!
Admittedly my car experience is limited to German makes, but I don't know of any car that specifies to check the oil cold after sitting overnight. In fact, when they specify I have only ever seen them specify checking the oil hot, and I believe that is what the 996 owner's manual says as well.
Interesting. I went out an checked. the owner's manual definitely specifies at operating temperature. I'm surprised he would take that approach, as the oil level will read lower cold, and most people have the problematic habir of putting in too much oil, not too little.
Yes, that is interesting. My manual says the same thing but I've always thought that a dipstick reading would be higher when cold (when all of the oil has had the opportunity to settle in the oil pan of a traditional vertical cylinder engine) and lower when hot (when some of the oil is still somewhere within the engine and hasn't yet returned to the pan).
FWIW, I've always had the habit of checking the oil and tire pressure before starting off on a trip, when the engine and tires are both cold. I have never checked the oil AFTER I've returned home from driving the car around or during a refueling when the engine is hot. The only time I ever checked any oil levels when the engine was hot was when I was a gas station attendant in the 60's and part of my job was checking the oil in cars so that I could sell the customers some oil. LOL!
Anyway, apparently flat sixes must be different. I'll check the oil in my 996 when the engine is hot from now on.
In most cars it is higher hot because it expands. That said, do these have an oil cooler? I have had it long enough to know (but that is also why I had read the manual recently enough to remember) If it has an oil cooler to drain back, it can show higher cold.
At one point, I have heard, the service manual said change oil way over reasonable mileage(15,000?) and the oil filter every other oil change. That doesn't make good sense to me. Sounds like a marketing ploy.
The oil level does rise in the pan after sitting and cooling off. More oil drains back over time. The point as I understand is to make sure that you don't overfill the engine due to measuring when hot and adding oil based on that reading.
You guys are so much fun...
It looks that "Jake's word" is God's one...
I would recommend you guys, read more, document your self more, from different sources (preferably not only internet)... starting from the guys who build the engine... (you know, those german guys...)
There are clear references on the owner's manual (not to mention to other books in the market) about how and when to use the onboard oil monitor and the dipstick. I find both really useful to have the oil level under control in a (don't forget) high performance cars
Sometimes I wonder myself if all the problems that these cars had in the past here in US, weren't related with the tendency here about believing in any after market "gurus" (I never saw so many self claimed experts on my career) or "hair growth" products (oils with names never seen, bearings build by a workshop that must be better than those builds for the most advanced companies on the field, etc...)
To the OP, I would say. In these cars is really important to have a good oil level. Add oil as soon as you can, and
keep it always as close to the maximum as possible and always without over passing it
My technique, Take a razor and create a (2) hash mark on the dip stick matching what your onboard monitor reflects. Half full then at one bar.
You Tube
Parris, I agree to a degree, but Porsche recommended 15000 mile oil changes...That's one reason why we've seen so many engine failures!
I know bill. That's why I say that we should be well informed and not only from one unique source. Porsche says that, but also says that the oil changes must be adapted to the use of the car. I wont be the one defending Porsche on this (or any topic), but just saying that sometimes, I have the impresion that many people believes any source... except the official, and that should not be the general rule.
Oh so you posted on an open forum and were only calling out for an opinion from one specific person. I get it...Good Luck.
Your car. Do whatever you want.
I would.. if I would be using it like a daily driver with relaxed driving and using a high quality first brand oil. No problem at all.
But I am driving it only some weekends and that's why I change the oil every year, without worrying about the miles (last one was changed with only 3000 miles)...
I would do a different plan if I would drive it hard or in a track
And so and so. Manufacturer recommendations are ok for an standard use. If your use is not standard in one or other way, you have adjust your maintenance intervals (and that is also mentioned on the specs)
Mobil1 could be one of them (EU Specs please) but there are a lot more out there... for shure... none of those named after a guy... so popular in some forums
So some people due to education, experience or involvement in testing procedures concerning the issue might have more formative information? As opposed to just some dude who has an opinion or marketing types trying to set attractive but unsubstantiative standards that would make purchasing a particular product more desirable?
So, the manual is "wrong" and they way I've always checked the oil (w/the engine cold) is correct? Fine w/me.
Can't do that w/my 335i because it only has a stupid electronic "dip stick" but all of my other vehicles still have a "real" dipstick (even my MB) which is my preference.
Was your BMW a dry sump? That’s the only reason the Mezger have electronic only. I bet they threw the electronic oil on non Mezger post 2000 just has a everyday check in foul weather or as a gimmick. Definatley dip stick is more trustworthy. And you can only check the oil when at 180 degrees on turbo ( that’s what mine works at )
l
I didnt start any thread about oil. Actually I answered your question two posts ago
By the way, if you want to say what people can or can not in your post, you should open a private discussion
Thanks for another opinion. If you had properly read the initial post, you'd see why I didn't take the PM route. But there's always the 5% that show up and create headaches. Move along sir/madam.
If Jake told me to kill a man, I'd tell him he's crazy. When Jake recommends I keep my oil level mid-way on my M96 dipstick, I tell him thank you for the advice.
Jake has taken apart, rebuilt & examined more M96 engines than the rest of this forum combined. So yeah, we listen to him...
I know more today than yesterday. I know more at 63 than I knew at 20. I know that 20 year old advice can change and I have learned to adapt. I know that initial advice can change with time, such as 15K oil changes on a M96 engine, with real world experience. Why not just go with the flow? Just makes sense to me.
@Strangelove. Jake sells the oil and his services on this forum and elsewhere, along with LNE. He’s part engine builder and part huckster, so which part are you believing? Check out other engine builders, they all claim to be the only god, based on personal experience from having racing engines rebuilt by “the best” engine builders.
Every time I come back to this forum, there is always one or two people trying to attack this man. I have yet to see any oil that Jake Raby or Flat 6 Innovations sells. Where is it? Seems to me that has conducted R&D for Driven ages ago, but has no part in the resell of any Driven product or other major oil on the market. He is a Rennlist sponsor and has a right to promote his business. What's the problem with that? Please enlighten us!
"Huckster".. Thats a new one.
Incorrect. The last time I sold oil was 2006. The last time I sold ANY individual component was in 2009. I don't even sell oil to our engine purchasers, even when they prefer to buy the oil from us. You can't call me to buy anything, we don't even sell the videos and workbooks that I have created for these engines.
I have been the developer for LN since 1999, and I was their first customer. Their first set of Nickies are fitted to the engine in my Porsche 356.
I am not, and never have been vested in LN Engineering.
I only have engines to sell, and nothing else. I don't even sell a damn T shirt, or a promotional items.. Engines only!
Here's the last time I sold oil... Smart asses were saying that I was a "Snake Oil Salesman", so I proved the bastards right.
It was a lot of fun back then. That really is my great, great grandfather
Not as much as an engine, but close...
Do it, please - I bet this forum can suggest some great designs - maybe a qt of that Snake Oil for the winner
(And thank you for all you have contributed here - I have learned a ton)
Just a quick internet search shows the connections between F6I, LNE, and Driven:
http://archive.constantcontact.com/f...570808109.html
https://flat6innovations.com/warranty/
https://flat6innovations.com/#services
https://lnengineering.com/products/p...e-bundles.html
I really really don't get the point you are trying to make. What the heck are you trying to do? So they recommend a certain brand of oil...so what? I recommend you get a bucket of water and quench this flame you are trying to ignite. It has no purpose or meaning....
Typical oil thread, they all go on a little longer than they should.
BUT, regarding the dipstick vs display I don't think this has been mentioned:
how are you going to look at your display and see the onset of dreaded intermix? Cars that only have a display, like BMW's, splash oil on the underside of the fill cap but ours don't. My cap is dry. So, not a week goes by that I don't check the oil dipstick for level and color, along with the engine vacuum and the coolant. Any intermix is too much and the sooner you can act the better for so many reasons.
And, I agree with this, keeping oil close to max. Mid-level is about a quart less than max. More oil to move heat to the coolant, more additives, etc. I keep mine one bar below max, as with all my cars.
I constantly fight to keep my engine purchasers from overfilling their engines with oil. Hypersensitivity disorder makes them think that the oil level has to be at the very top, or they believe that when the electronic indicator is at the bottom, that the oil level is showing �empty�.
I treat the entire range of the electronic indicator as the �safe operating range� and as long as oil is being indicated on it somewhere, you are fine.
That said, I train my purchasers that the middle of the electronic indicator is their new �full� mark. Why? The main reason is because I have learned that while you can run one of these engines up to 4 quarts low on oil without a problem on the street, running .5 quart too much oil will cause issues in the short term, and throw off fueling due to crankcase vacuum levels changing because of the greater column of oil in the sump.
over filling is a cardinal sin. Only checking the oil level once per day, in the morning before the first start, on level ground is the key, as long as the oil level is in the middle of the gauge. I train people not to add oil until the indicator is all the way at the bottom, then ONLY add .5 quart at once. This brings the level back to the center of the gauge, right where I want it to be.
Constantly topping off the level, trying to keep it at the very top is a problem waiting to happen. Doing this will lead to over filling, and that is what you want to avoid at all costs.
Please correct me here but mid level reading is half a quaurt from max. dip stick or electronic. If you add a quart at that point you will overfill it.
Yes, that would overfill the engine by roughly .5 quart.
The center of the electronic gauge, or dipstick is as safe as you can get, and lower is better than being filled to max.
Hi. B3freak is my personal account. After seeing Jake's performance on the PCA videos, I approached him about starting Rennvision because of my experience in communications as well as being close in proximity to Jake and his team. I recently asked Jake for permission to use the Flat 6 logo(s) to help generate funds to support the production costs associated with video production on the YouTube channel. But let me make it absolutely CLEAR, none of the money made from selling Rennvision merch goes to Jake Raby or Flat 6 Innovations. It comes to me. I have to pay taxes on it and then pay for all the costs associated with running a simple educational resource via YouTube. It gets expensive! Did you know that the professional P2-HD media cards that our HD cameras use cost between $500 - $2000 each? We purchased 21 cards to run 5 cameras. Do the math. This is why we need your support.
YouTube allows us to use TeeSpring (now just called "Spring") on the channel and basically I get a small portion of the sales.
It seems most of the people that come to the channel like to get the information and move on with their lives. All we ask is to simply SUBSCRIBE! Overall, the channel has been a hit with averaging 15,000 views/month. However, only 20% are subscribing and less than 1% have become members (by clicking the JOIN button). If you look at how YouTube and Google work to monetize content, you'd understand that user subscriptions are paramount. Again, we truly hope you'll support us.
If you would like to purchase Flat 6 Innovations t-shirts, go to this site:
https://rennvision.creator-spring.com
Also, feel free to suggest designs. Right now, we're keeping it simple.
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