Slippery Slope

So I just bought a set of track pads from the classifieds: https://rennlist.com/forums/parts-ma...2-boxster.html And the Lotus club has a one day event at Blackhawk Farms next month, guess I will have to do it. Now to see if I can find somebody to bring my track wheels and tires up there, they were for my 968, but I would think they would work on the 996. They are a staggered set up, 225 45 17 and 255 40 17, what do you think about running them on the 996? Or should I just stick with my street tires?

Why not just drive up on them? How far is it?

It's not far, about 60 miles.....but OMG did I learn my lesson with my 968! It started raining at the event, and the track got closed down for a bit, then a guy went off with tires like mine. I decided to pack up and go home. I was driving on the track tires on I-90 when I started to catch up to the rain that went over the track. I forgot (read: I've never been on rain with track tires) that I had track tires on and the car started aqua planing like no tomorrow. I could barely go 40 MPH on the highway, was being passed by everyone. Pulled over to clean my pants out and get some coffee. Waited almost an hour, then chased the storm home and it was downright scary! Therefore, I will no longer drive to the track with track tires. Plus they are soooooo loud! Sounds like every wheel has a bearing failure.

That sucks. You *can* get four into the 996 but that don't be awesome.

I solved that problem the old fashioned way, I threw money at it. ForumRunner_20150421_114937.png

Personally I wouldn't do it. I learned my lesson with track tires and no lubrication upgrade. Use your street tires.

Sneaky Pete: What is "no lubrication upgrade"?

Now I think I get it...an upgraded pan so it does not starve oil on higher G levels in the corners that might occur with track tires?

What are the offsets on your old 968 wheels?

They are 17" 996 wheels..... 17x7 ET50 17x9 ET55

I'm surprised to hear of oil starvation under track g forces. I tracked my 964 and 993 and never had the problem, nor heard of it. Don't tell me that the 996 that comes from the factory is a poser.

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996 = wet sump.

Many people who track their 996 upgrade to the X51 oil pan with baffles or an aftermarket pan with a similar design.

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Exactly.....Dennis hit the nail. Paul you hit too.

Yeah, I was focused on "how" not "whether" and the consensus is don't go to track tires with stock oil pan.

I did the FVD Brombscher deep sump upgrade. It's the most beautiful piece of aluminum you will never see.

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You have not been paying attention, Mr. Ireland.

In addition to the deep sump pan and baffle upgrades, some folks do this: http://lnengineering.com/hpde-2-quar...ersal-kit.html The web site of a very well-known Porsche engine builder offers the following sage advice specifically for the M96 engine: Those that want to keep their engine alive on the track should couple a proper race oil with higher volume scavenge pumps, better oil control baffles and a higher volume oil filter.

Now you guys have me scared....do I even put my car on the track without an oil baffle upgrade? Haven't paid just yet..... I don't plan to drive crazy on the track, but I like to have fun!

Dot legal race rubber and long sweeping bends could starve the oil just enough but otherwise you should be OK. Might wanna do an oil change before and after as well if you're paranoid. Also you may be smoking depending on the state of your AOS. Either way, I would put that microscope to use after your session.

You most likely will not sustain high G long enough to cause oil starvation in an autocross. Seem significant discount, depending on parts needed, if you go to Canton directly https://www.cantonracingproducts.com...&category=2410

I think tons of people track stock 996s, but I wouldn't go beyond extreme high performance street tires without other upgrades.

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Exactly. I ran Sumi's and MPSS. Had a blast with both. It's when I went to Toyo 888's is when gloom and doom happened. I wouldn't think twice about tracking with street tires.

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My understanding was he was thinking of going to Blackhawk Farms, which is a road race course, not autocross.

Also, if you get the deep sump kit, be sure that you install the sump pickup extension. There was a thread on here from a couple of years ago where someone had an engine failure because he installed the deep sump, but then did not install the pickup extension. So, instead of fixing the problem with the oil starvation, it exacerbated it.

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Yea, I remember that thread. Poor guy.

We ran with lots of stock 996's, 986's and 997's this weekend. Fairly flat track. Nobody had an issue and I never did after multiple events prior to my baffle upgrade. But, starvation could happen anywhere at any time on any track I suppose. I spoke to a guy that lost his motor in his stock Cayman at Daytona due to starvation. He dropped in a nicely upgraded track motor, went back to Daytona and crashed it. So there is always that guy. Not sure if he is still married or not.

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So THAT'S who has been driving up prices on M96 cores...

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Mainly on long left hander high speed corners with high enough G's(mainly race rubber) that will starve banks 4-6. Adding second oil scavenging pump and the appropriate crossover tube will greatly reduce this. This was a ROW option for both 3.4 and 3.6 motors. We unfortunately didn't get that option as Porsche assumed us dumb Americans only like to go fast in a straight line or pu$$y foot it around corners.

So last night I put the front track pads on the car and bleed the front brakes. So is it normal to remove the calipers to change the pads? I thought this would take seconds with the Brembo brakes....but it took me a while on the first side because of the anti-squeal pads attached to the pad. I ended up removing the caliper to get the brake pads out. The track pads had the anti-squeal devices in the box that I received them in, but they were no longer attached to the pads. I put them in the calipers, put the calipers back on, then just inserted the pads back into the calipers and buttoned everything up. When I un-do everything, I'll have to take the calipers back off to get the street pads back in. I will do the rears tonight, do I need to take the calipers off for those? The rear track pads have no anti-squeal device, but I saw in the manual that there is something for the rears, more like a little star?

Normally, you should just be able to slide the pads right out of the calipers but sometimes the pads get stuck to the backing/squeal pads.

IIRC, I used a sharp narrow putty knife to separate the pads from the anti-squeal shims while changing my rear brake pads. Did this while the caliper was on the car. They were the little button/star looking things.

The anti-squeal weights are supposed to stick to the brake pad backing so they can be as one with the pad to reduce vibration (basically dampers). It they are separated from the pads, they offer nothing useful. Normally when you remove the pads, you don't need to remove the calipers but you do need to use a scraper to separate the weights from the pad (the weights just stick on with adhesive). If you remove the calipers, you may need to replace the caliper bolts, which are only one time use if my memory serves. I reuse the old weights by sticking them on the new pads with hi-temp adhesive and that work well for me.

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How do you get the new pads in without removing the calipers? There wouldn't be enough clearance for the pads and the anti-squeal device in the axial direction. Or do you stick the anti-squeal device in, put adhesive on the back on the pad, then slide it into place and then operate the brakes to apply pressure?

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The latter except I sprayed adhesive on the backing of the weights.

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Here's one way that's worked for others. You have to put channel locks on the ears of the pads and spread it out as much as possible before you remove the pads. I've ran pads without any glue substance to the anti-squeal backing plates and didn't notice any squealing. Track guys always do this. YMMV.

So here is the track report from today at Blackhawk Farms: Session 1: go out there, trying to just feel the car out...left PSM on for a bit to see if the back end would just step out....nope, never felt the back end get loose at all during the day, turn it off. Put the heat on HI and set the fan to medium and put it on defrost, the engine temp stayed on the "0" of the 180, the right hand side of it though. Checked the oil pressure on the straights, always 4 or 5 bar. Ran the 25 minutes. Passed by many Lotus Elise's Did a classroom session, picked up a few great tips. Go out for the second session, just was going so much faster. About 12-14 minutes into the session, started checking the gauges during the turns, and saw that the oil pressure would drop from 4 or 4.5 bar down to 3 or 2.5 bar at the lowest. As soon as the G's are off, the oil pressure would come right back up. Slowed down and did a lap looking at it (it's sure not easy to do)....pulled in after 15 minutes. Checked the oil. It was at the high end of the range in the morning (but below the circle part of the dipstick) and was now about 2/3rd's up on the straight part. Added about 7/8 quart of Joe Gibbs 5W40 (what I am running) and then the car cooled off. The oil level was almost to the little circle above the straight part. Did a third session after lunch, was much faster and smoother, oil pressure was staying where it should be and after about 5 or 6 laps (1.8 miles each) and the engine started to really come up to temp, the oil pressure started to fall off 4 bar to 3 bar in the turns. I am running Continental DWS all season tires! I pulled in and called it a day. Had a blast, but was so pre-occupied with the oil pressure gauge I will either never track the car again or get a sump kit and try it again. Once my wallet recovers. Glad I was paying attention! BTW, running Porterfield R-4 track pads was not an issue with the brakes, they were just awesome, didn't use a whole lot of brake, but never a fade or never not enough brakes!

I'm no expert by any means but sounds like a minor oil starvation but you were all over that one bud! Nice. What was your average RPM and speed? Curious.

RPM during the oil pressure change evolutions was at least 4K or higher and speed was anywhere from 40 - 80 or more MPH.

Your observations seem pretty typical. You could've also just used the stock pads if you wanted on that track and would've been fine too. Any smoke anywhere on the track that you noticed? Either on downshift or fast acceleration redline shifting?

No smoking anywhere. I did not redline shift, there is really no need to, between 1 and 3 you pretty much short shift from 3rd to 4th before you hit the rumbles half way, after turn 4 you want to get to 3rd before setting the bake, and on the front straight, I would shift around 6500 RPM, there is not real advantage to rev it to higher IMO. Just played it safe with the oil pressure thing. Too bad that this is an issue from the factory.

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That's good to hear. I agree about the 6500 rpm shift and I guess that's what I was referring to when I meant red line. Yes, I really wished they would've stuck with the dry sump for all 996.