Yep...another IMS thread

Don't beat me up...I've read the threads but just want thoughts on this comment. I purchased a 2004 garage queen in pristine condition from dealership. I have sighted all records and can see how many miles the car was driven each year (avg 300-600 miles/yr) not in the thousands. First few years put most of the miles on the car but we're under 6500 total. Car purchased with no IMS bearing work, 10030 miles AND a warranty. I am told just enjoy it and if/when it dumps, enjoy the warranty. I tend to be concervative to say the least and don't like the idea of waiting for failures, loss of the original power plant etc etc. However, not sure I am ready to dump the Bucks into paying for the drop at this low mileage. Comments?

Quotes source post: 12275018

Just enjoy the car and if the engine breaks enjoy the warranty. When the warranty has expired then you can think about what if anything you want to do to the engine.

If the car was a CPO from Porsche and has a Porsche warranty I'd feel better telling you to just wait. If not, then I can tell you that the warranty company will fight till the death not to pay... Or they'll try to install a junkyard engine in the car. There's not much more that I hate worse than a cubicle sitting, polyester suit wearing jackass at a warranty company! As crazy as it sounds, the warranty might be void if you choose to retrofit it... Simply because the engine saw "un authorized service".

Exactly, I'd be interested to read the fine print and at least get some sort of confirmation that the IMS is covered prior to failure. Who is the warranty through? How long is it good for? I can't imagine you bought a 2004 with 10K on the clock for a steal. Why not go the extra mile for some piece of mind.

Jake is right...if you have a non-Porsche IMS fix that could void the warranty. The fact is that you paid for the warranty in the car's price or you bought it separately. I did the same with my 03 with 39k miles and I'm happy to just live with the fact between 92% and 94% of all the others are still on the road and not failing. And just read the threads and discover how many who made the fix found the original bearing as good as new. Drive it every day, change the oil every 5000 miles, and expect things to start needing replacement because they got old just sitting their while no one drove the car. Age is the enemy of things containing rubber. Bushings, belts, gaskets, shocks, tires (change those tires if they are more than four years old) have an immediate oil change, have your brake system flushed, change the tranny fluids, expect to get squeeking brakes from anciet pads, your water pump might crap out when it suddenly finds itself being used, etc. etc. Oh yes...when a car isn't driven seals get dry and shrink and then when the car starts to be driven...they start to leak. The rear main seal and the IMS seal should be examined at the first sign of oil under the car. See all the money buying a garage queen can cost? A car with 60k miles would probably only need half the work. But you've got what you got so relax and enjoy it.

Aftermarket Warranty thru dealership. All fluids were drained/replenished annually and tires replaced about 6 months ago. No leaks, tight as German Pu...well, Goot n Tight. In full agreement to enjoy, not make a mountain out of a mole hill. Changed belts and had a full tune-up, filters changed, etc, etc. changed hood shocks (saging in cold wx), all paint and rubber are like new, leather soft and still smell new. Shock/brakes are great, no codes, no over rev. Radio sux. Windows tinted and horns replaced. She drives like a dream come true but the IMS issue is really nagging. I keep an eye out for any leaks, fluids clean and topped on all of my vehicles. Spent 40 years flying and maintaining aircraft and as far as I am concern, Porsche is as close as a car comes to Aviation. Responses will guide my next action(s) so thanks again to all.

Just read the terms of the warranty very carefully. Don't rely on what the salesperson told you. Or post them up here if you aren't sure.

Aftermarket warranties aren't worth the paper they were written on in my experience. Jake's right, if you have a serious failure (of any kind) they will use every tactic in the book to not pay out including blatantly false information (like claiming a fuel rail is part of a carburetor and then trying to say it's part of the emissions system when that didn't fly) in the hope that you'll just give up. Don't expect the dealer to be any help either as they got their commission on the sale and will just say there is nothing they can do. You used to be able to return/cancel such warranties and get a portion of your money back, you might look into that and put the money towards a retrofit or other work. Congrats on the car though. I hope it gives you a long and happy life.

After market warranty covered my engine fully

I really don't invasion the guys who work at warranty companies wearing polyester suits. More like t-shirts and flip flops. If the IMSB goes, I imagine it would take a forensic metallurgist to figure out if it was the original bearing or not. Or Jake. My warranty company was a PITA, but eventually paid for almost everyone claim, sometimes with and sometimes without a fight. The keys were to not wait until you had a laundry list of repairs. That sends up a red flag. Secondly, they wouldn't fix anything that was about to break (cracked serpentine belt, cracked coils, etc). Just make sure they are broken before you see your mechanic. OP, other than this advice, either enjoy the car, or if you are that worried, retrofit your IMSB, or IMSBG, or IMSB Solution, or sell the car. You won't get 100% enjoyment if you are waiting for the grenade to go off (BTW...it really won't). Otherwise this thread is destined to have lots of boobies.

Quotes source post: 12275018

GET THE UPGRADE DONE.

Sell it and buy a Camry. Seriously, you seem to fit into the category of wanting guarantee's and have a very low risk tolerance level, even based on your purchasing habit. There are several other modes of failure so even if you address the IXX as a preventative measure, the only way to address all the other modes of failure is to get a preventative reconstruction done by Jake as he addresses a lot if not all of these weak points.

Quotes source post: 12275018

The IMS or not you're sitting on (In my case) a car that's worth around 20k with an engine that's worth around 20k when all is said and done. Being a machine there are many things that could go wrong with the engine or transmission for that matter, that could make a big paperweight out of the whole car. Not even to mention the risk when you drive it that any accident would stand a good chance of totaling the car. These cars are full of risks.

In theory, the area where Porsche designed the bearing to sit is supposed to be dry. However, after years of use within the engine, it would appear that oil and contaminants from the engine seep past the bearing seal, wash out the original lubricant, and become trapped inside. The result is that the bearing now operates in a less-than-ideal environment and begins to wear prematurely. Read more about the IMS bearing failure here , which provides good insight on possible replacement bearings. -Luccia

Hell, I had to fight with Porsche to get things fixed under the CPO warranty. I found Fidelity a bit better to work with on our other car -- but even those issues were not 20k issues. I waited about a year after my CPO expired to save up for the IMS Solution. As in the other recent thread --- why not go for the IMS Guardian? What warranty company is covering your car? You can always google that name to see if others have had coverage issues.

When my aftermarket warranty expired I went the refit route. Now I drive it like it was meant to be driven.

You can go broke paying for preventative maintenance. And then crash the car. Or decide to sell it just before it won't have a problem for 40k miles. Or something you didn't anticipate takes it out. No way of knowing. Do you have an excellent mechanic available who knows Porsches and has done multiple IMS retrofits? Thinking of Jake's new disclosure that block manufacturing tolerances matter, would it be good to wait until the shop has the new measurement too and experience using it? That way you'd know you had a good new bearing in a good engine. Or a bad engine and you could bail out then.

Tough questions because we don't know the terms of your warranty and how well it covers when it comes to engine failure. Most likely the warranty will have wording that forbids modifications (which an IMSB retrofit will be considered as) and excludes parts that are not lubricated by engine oil. Let's say one of your rod bolts let loose and shot a hole in your engine case, it will be interesting to argue whether the bolt is lubricated by engine oil. Yes, the engine oil is all over it but the bolt does not need lubrication to begin with....

Quotes source post: 12276783

You just had to throw in the substandard rod bolt issue into the mix and scare the guy a little bit more. Geez...

Wow, all great inputs! Currently on travel to Asia but returning today. Should be home Wednesday evening and can read the details of the warranty, company name etc and respond at that time. Seriously considering a preemptive install thru Jake. Thanks again folks.

Ha. Love the one on the bolt!

Quotes source post: 12276987

I was trying to convince him he should get a camry instead

Quotes source post: 12277209

Thats what I did. I feel that is the best way you can go, not the cheapest but at least you will know you did all you could do to put the odds as much as possible in your favor. Jake will address the block issue amongst other things. If you live closer to Los Angeles area Jake has a friend he speaks highly of named Tony that would also do the job 100 percent. My car was also a super low mileage one, I have not had any leaks from anything including shrinking seals, the brakes are like new, etc. I think the lower the mileage the better. Have fun.

Quotes source post: 12277209

You must contact the warranty company and get a statement in writing that an invasive procedure to retrofit the IMSB will not void the warranty. I absolutely hate warranty companies and won't accept vehicles that have failed and a warranty company will be footing the bill. There is ONE exception to this, and thats LaSalle warranty company, as we do 100% of their Porsche engine repair work. I have seen these guys pay for things that they didn't even have to, and you deal with the owner, not some cubicle sitting clown. Lasalle is so good that I will actually write a warranty for them, and do quite often. Personally I don't care for any warranty. When I buy something and they ask if I want the extended warranty the reply is "hell no, if it stops working I'll blow it up with a 12 gauge". I'd rather just buy another one as deal with warranty BS, excuses and red tape, fine print.

Sell it, it will not appreciate and you will never enjoy it.

Dang it Ahsai...we just sold one to get this! Stuck with her till death do us part. If she hears me breath another Porsche she'll pull the plug to my battery charger. haha. Gonna check on the company name, will get a quote from Jake on the bearing and mag plug and most likely sell off my warranty if there is a better solution. She's old in time but still young electromechanically. I had those mag plugs on my aircraft and believe in them. Some guys wanted Fuzz busters (burned off the fuzz). Rule was leave it and inspect for material so you can determine what is letting loose. I was always comfortable with it unless you saw flickering which was indicative of chunks and not chips. Yikes...Saved many a jet engine in my life.

The thing is even if you do the imsb retrofit, there's no guarantee your engine won't blow up. Just search on rennlist and you will see a few cases like that. Broken rod bolt, allegedly failed retrofit imsb, broken timing chain, scored bore, etc. Also, the imsb needs to be replaced at some time/mileage down the road. If you do Jake's preemptive upgrades, it won't be cheap. Also, there are more (cheaper) alternatives for a rebuild/used engine these days. Also keep in mind there are thousands of great running engines without any catastrophic failures. So you really have to sit down and do a cost/benefit/risks analysis in your own situation since only your know your risk tolerance level. The chip detector is a great idea and it will also warn you for other failures such as timing chain falling apart. If it's tripped though, most likely you will need a rebuild as well. Just that you will have a better chance to save the core so the rebuild may be less costly.

Quotes source post: 12277209

You do realize your motor has to qualify or else you could get rejected. Jake doesn't just do the retrofit on any motor. But as Ahsai said and what I tried to indicate is that just doing the IMSR is no guarantee that your motor isn't going to fail.

Quotes source post: 12277867

Mine was just a little over $2k to do here and they checked on some other stuff. Didn't really mention any other upgrades and gave me a clean bill of health and sent me on my way. A bit expensive but worth it since the car was running so well and I needed to get it checked out anyway. I'm sure there are a few options for shops in your area?

Quotes source post: 12278316

I would imagine that damn near but not all of the IMSB upgrades that Jake does on low mileage cars that haven't shown any signs of bearing failure yet will pass his qualifications for a replacement. You are right about no guarantee that the motor will still not fail from something anyway. There is no guarantee that you will wake up every morning but if you have good health the odds are with you, if you have blood clots waiting to let loose the odds aren't as good. Eventually just like the engine we will all wear out and die. The goal in life and toy ownership is to have as much fun as possible and keep it going as long as possible. Unfortunately money has a lot to do with this particular goal.

The point is doing IMSB retrofit may give the owner a false sense of security that the engine will then become bullet proof. You may have equal probability to have your stock IMSB failed, or your timing chain snapped, or the IMS tensioner paddle crapped out, or your cylinders scored, etc. all require a rebuild so by eliminating only the IMS failure, you're still exposed to others. IMSB is so popular mainly because it happens to be something you can retrofit without taking the engine apart. Now use engine prices start to come down and more economical to rebuild, it's not entirely clear whether one should spend $2.5k to address one of the weaknesses or just roll the dice and save that toward a used engine/rebuild IF the engine fails.

I bought a garage queen as well, took it to a Porsche dealer for full inspection, preventive maintenance, I changed all fluids, serpentine belt, spark plugs, tires, variocam actuators, later my Steering Lock Assembly Ignition Switch die so I had to get a new one and lately the roof is acting up (still waiting for my nerves to cool down and fix it). I ask them regarding the IMS they said, enjoy the car and don't worry, they way I see it, If I get 3 years without the engine getting destroy, I'll take it as the same amount I'll spent if a lease a new 911.

Quotes source post: 12279388

Well and there was a high failure rate for a while that, in some cases, happened early in the engines life. Sure there are other things that can happen, but they seem to be a bit more rare. Although, hop online, and people make it seem like any car north of the mason dixon line will have scoring or will get scoring soon and need a overhaul shortly after...