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YOUR RESEARCHturbo conversion
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biggest hurdle, keeping the electronics happy
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Suspected cause
You could try to go the route of swapping a Turbo engine in the car, the difficulties here would be again, plumbing, IC placement and lines and likely the biggest hurdle, keeping the electronics happy.
Leading evidence: 'biggest hurdle, keeping the electronics happy' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'biggest hurdle, keeping the electronics happy' (1 discussions; 0 report identifying it and 1 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Replace pretty much everything short of the case' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Suggestion
A 996 CUP engine rebuild, is around $30K - that's with replacing pretty much everything short of the case.
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Suggestion
The GTX turbos are the *****, I ran an HTA35R on my Evo that was good, but man the tech has come a long way - even at low boost, that turbo is going to move a lot of air.
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Suggestion
There is no way I am going to attempt to get there using an M96.
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Suggestion
The GTX turbos are the *****, I ran an HTA35R on my Evo that was good, but man the tech has come a long way - even at low boost, that turbo is going to move a lot of air.
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biggest hurdle, keeping the electronics happy
No successful repair reported for this finding.
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Suspected cause
You could try to go the route of swapping a Turbo engine in the car, the difficulties here would be again, plumbing, IC placement and lines and likely the biggest hurdle, keeping the electronics happy.
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You will not find many adventurous enough in this forum to try modification or engine swaps to end up with a Turbo engine. I think most feel as the risk to stressing the motor and the reliability decline is not worth the reward. I would personally not even think about turbocharging the stock M96 - its junk NA and it would be junk turbocharged. The stock engine that comes in the car is obviously optimized for NA induction (compression ratio, cam shaft design etc.) and as such, by its nature - you would likely be octane limited with regards to boost to pretty low number. There would also be the plumbing, IC, oil and coolant lines for the turbo(s) which would need to be dealt with which would add additional complexity to the system.
You could try to go the route of swapping a Turbo engine in the car, the difficulties here would be again, plumbing, IC placement and lines and likely the biggest hurdle, keeping the electronics happy. I think a plausible route for this scenario would be to buy a wrecked car to use as a donor. Swap EVERYTHING - Motor, gearbox, ECU's, harness, cluster etc...
So, I would suggest - don't mess with the M96 motor, it's junk and not a great platform for modification unless you are planning to get real invasive and swap in low compression pistons, figure out a good standalone ECU, and have someone, who I'm not sure exists for this platform tune it. You'd still have an engine when complete with inherent mechanical flaws - there is no way around that.
Be a pathfinder and embark on swapping to a turbo motor via the method I describe above - I think that once you complete the work (if you're capable to do yourself) and part out the remaining components from the donor car, its a realistic way to have something more powerful, and reliable than what came in the car originally and depending on a bunch of factors, maybe you could do it for close to the cost of a rebuilt M96.
My best advice beyond what has been offered is... if you want a turbocharged 996, then buy the genuine article - the Turbo 996. The car, especially the Mezger engine, is designed ground-up for forced induction.
Strapping a turbocharger on a base M96 is like the curl on a pig's tail, you don't add any more pork to the pig.
The 996 is an awesome chassis and car let down by the M96 engine, which, if you want to modify it, or drive it without worry of failure be it the road or track, or have it rebuilt for a reasonable cost, or make more than 250WHP economically is junk and you should start with something else.
If you disagree, that would be AWESOME and I would love to hear your points of contention and what you think makes it, not junk.
Not sure I agree with you saying that our motors are junk. I like the power delivery, sound, and performance of my 3.4 a lot, granted I understand the potential for catastrophic failure. 124k on the odometer so far, so it's not exactly unreliable. As far as your advice, well... yeah... I mean if people talk about turboing their car, they are typically expecting to have to put lower compression forged pistons and ECU upgrades at a minimum. That is common knowledge/practice and not a knock on the M96 as a bad platform. There may be other valid reasons not to turbo an M96, but it seemed strange that you identified those concerns as if they were specific to our engines.
zbomb, I can't agree with you that the base M96 engines are junk. I'm on my third M9X based Porsche and truly love the performance. I've owned muscle cars that produced a buttload more HP, but couldn't hold a candle to these cars on a track.
Yes, these engines have core issues that had a lot to do Porsche's cost-cutting measures during the economic downturn in the early 90s. (We all know the Pinky Lai story) But people like Jake Raby and Flat 6 Innovations have solutions to make these engines shine well above 400HP at the wheels without any fancy forced induction or crazy bolt-ons and... will last a long time.
E36, E46, LS, VR6, Miata, 5.0 Ford... I could go on, are all cars / engines you can bolt a turbo kit on and run with a tune and maybe injectors - not only will the engines live if treated right but most importantly there is aftermarket support - neither case is true with the M96.
The M96 is overly complicated for its output
, again - the M96 makes about 250-260WHP and costs upwards of $20K for the average rebuild yielding stock power numbers. I think most would say - those 2 things don't make sense in the same sentence. FWIW, I built a 4G63 motor that made 550WHP on pump gas with a forged bottom end, built head for about $5K - that motor made power from 4.5 to 9K RPM. Apples to oranges but I do think it provides some perspective on the fact that we will rebuild 260WHP engines and end up with a $20K bill.
They sound great, rev freely (only to 7K RMP though) and have a low COG - I'd say that's about it for their redeeming features.
I DO NOT love the performance of the M96 and think about 350-400WHP is about right for the chassis and my needs. There is no way I am going to attempt to get there using an M96.
The chassis is world class and the reason why the cars perform so well at the track IN SPITE of the lackluster power plant. Pair that muscle car engine with the 996 chassis and you would have an absolute machine capable of running far faster lap times than either the M96 powered Porsche or the stock muscle car, and do so with a more reliable power plant.
An FSI engine due to cost and availability is not a realistic solution for the vast majority of 996 owners.
If you�re looking for bolt-on horsepower, you probably bought the wrong car.
If you think peak dyno numbers are important, you probably bought the wrong car.
I just enjoy the sound of my junk motor while tearing down the backroads.
Skip...I didn't say Junk and Porsche in the same sentence, I said Junk and M96
As much as I have a ton I could say on the subject, it is wildly off topic - I hope the OP gets hooked up with what he needs, turbos the car and we get to see an M96 making something north of 270 WHP documented in this forum with dyno graphs and pros and cons and maybe it will turn my world on its head.... If people know how my car is used, they should know nobody would be happier about me eating my words on this topic than ME !
J\{
It cost me $10,000 plus $3500 labor they also put new stronger clutch, Car dynos 420hp at the wheels. go to TPC site and look you can call them. they need to remap the ECU for This kit .I don't track my car, But on the street its very reliable.
I saw the website and thought the numbers certainly looked impressive. I might like to run mine on a track if allowed at least once, but for the most part a street only thing. While there are quite a few of these cars out there, and the aftermarket as well as Porsche parts availability is great, there aren't enough Jakes out there, as well as the production of parts vs demand to bring costs down to say, the Mustang or Camaro scene. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but just economics.
You came to the wrong place to ask this, there are very few people here who will not trash talk the idea, a lot of people have forced induction in these cars, and they're happy, I keep waiting for a post saying "yeah mine blew up because of the turbo I installed". Yeah it probably won't hold up on the track but if all you want is an out of normal street 911 it'll be alright, I'm building my kit myself and I'll spend roughly 5k and hopefully won't have to ask any related questions here on the forum.
it'll be a very low boost set up until I need a rebuild and lower the compression
44mm wastegate, 24mm recirculation valve, Gtx3584r, bosch 550cc injectors, csf air to air vertical flow intercooler, I'll get it tuned with protomotive and I'll weld my own pipes it'll all be done by the end of the year since I'm currently working out of state
The M96 ouput is a product of its time. C5 Vette at 350, E46 M3 at 333, 4.6 Ford at 260. I agree these engines are prohibitively expensive to rebuild but that's the reality of any Porsche engine, Mezger would be far worse. I agree these cars would be more enjoyable on track with 400 horsepower but I sold my 2016 Camaro SS for my 996 and have never looked back.
P.S. My 911 turns 1.2 seconds slower per lap than my Camaro with 150 less horsepower.
So, because the M96 doesn't meet your rather narrow list of needs, it's "junk"... Uh, ok - that's not a slightly subjective opinion...
No, the M96 is not a race engine! Is it a good platform to build a race engine? Probably not the best, or most efficient but it can be done given the knowledge and $ (ask Jake Raby). Is it junk? No, of course it's not junk...
$20K + to rebuild a motor that makes 260HP... IMS, Bore Score, D Chunk, AOS, oil pressure. Apparently 1 guy, 1 !!!! that can rebuild them who has a backlog years long.
Thats why... Yes, my opinion of course. Don't see many people offering any technical reasons why they disagree...
And I have no idea what FSI does on a "race engine"...
thurstonpowers3
- the contention a Mezgar is worse, from a financial perspective to rebuild is just not accurate - first of all, there is far greater choice of rebuilders, second... A 996 CUP engine rebuild, is around $30K - that's with replacing pretty much everything short of the case.
I applaud anyone pushing the boundaries on these motors and
Rickylandaverry
... word up to you man. Where are you mounting the IC ? The GTX turbos are the *****, I ran an HTA35R on my Evo that was good, but man the tech has come a long way - even at low boost, that turbo is going to move a lot of air. Can you get E85 where you are ?
