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THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHJoe Gibbs DT40 vs. Mobil 1 0W-40
Reported or suspected cause
sensitive
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Reported cause
Asian cats are proven to be sensitive to higher levels of Zn and P, but thats simply not the case with European cats.
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Suggestion
During development we have gone so far as to completely disassemble an engine to clean the prior product before beginning the back to back comparisons between oils.
Leading evidence: 'sensitive' (1 discussions report identifying this cause; no attributable repair resolution). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'sensitive' (1 discussions; 1 report identifying it and 0 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Clean prior product' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
Source reports, not a diagnosis or a success probability. Counts refer to discussions and can overlap.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
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Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
Further, over the years I have used these oils in my own personal Porsches, one of which had a "cat aging" code when I got the car (it had always used M1 before).
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
During that time we've used OE and aftermarket cats on engines drink testing or after our reconstruction services for customers.
Use these oils in my own personal porsches, one of
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
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Discussions
Read evidence and context
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
Further, over the years I have used these oils in my own personal Porsches, one of which had a "cat aging" code when I got the car (it had always used M1 before).
These are separate views of the same evidence. Frequency alone does not establish a fix, and these counts must not be added together.
Clean prior product
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Unsuccessful attempts
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Discussions that contain suggestions
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Suggestion
During development we have gone so far as to completely disassemble an engine to clean the prior product before beginning the back to back comparisons between oils.
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Suggestion
Speaking as a parrot, I speculate (though not as wildly as some) that Porsche when they recommend Mobil 1 for my 2009 C2S that they know what they are talking about.
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Suggestion
And the answer is "No." The dealer has to recommend an oil that works well for the car but is also ubiquitously available to enable timely oil service.
Why were your oil change intervals with M1 so frequent, and why does switching to a different oil make you comfortable doubling the mileage between oil changes?
Counts describe captured discussions, not unique people or a diagnosis. Author identities are not reliably stored. Exact duplicate evidence is counted once across matching discussions; one discussion counts at most once per action/state. Multiple repairs reported together remain a combination. Suggestions and failed attempts do not establish a fix. Matches cover whole discussions and can include related faults, model variants and incomplete threads.
65 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
0 evidence records excluded for query context · 0 excluded by outcome qualification · 0 adjusted by outcome qualification.
0 acknowledgements have no verified action link; they do not establish a repair result.
Generation: 20261026T124918Z · outcome-qualification-6. Deterministic extraction; no AI model inference. How we use sources
Currently using Mobil 1 0W-40 in my 2002 Targa with changes every 3k miles. Considering switching to Joe Gibbs DT40 but increasing the change intervals to 6k miles which for me would be about 10 months between changes. Which would you consider to be the best option and why?
9 quarts getting dumped every 3K miles. Stunning.
Why were your oil change intervals with M1 so frequent, and why does switching to a different oil make you comfortable doubling the mileage between oil changes?
I'm not sure the RL server can handle the results of a search for oil threads.
JG is awesome enough that OP can push the oil change out 1,000 miles past what Raby recommends, KK? I believe that in the oil thread you're referencing, The Man Himself indicated that the JG oil has a 5K mile lifespan...
Change every 5,000 miles. Select one of the many oils that are better than Mobil 0W40. To include:
Joe Gibbs DT40 5W40
Mobil 5W50
Mobil 5W40 Turbo Diesel
Motul 5W40
Send your oil to Blackstone Labs for UOA's.
So frequent because I'm on original IMSB but don't need a clutch so taking a peek at my oil filter every 3k miles gives me peace of mind. I think I'll opt for the DT40 with 5k between changes.
I'm at 125k original motor, m1 0w-40 used all it's life. Original IXX. I have a very slight oil drip but I still sleep good at night. YMMV but I prefer to worry about stuff like if I'm going to get the Ebola virus from someone that just came from that region.
Here comes 5 more pages of Rennlist fluff...
Yipppeeeee.... Oil thread..... I'm in!!!!!!!
I use Total oil. It's some freekin' French company. Seems pretty slippery to me.
I try to stay at 3k between changes because I am paranoid. I'm at 4k now since the last change, and I'm starting to get the *******.
I was hoping the OP would read the oil thread where JR explains all about JG preventing CEF and MOF and nothings on the DL.
Cant go wrong with JG for an M96, forget the other worthless oils.
An oil drip? That sounds CATASTROPHIC! Don't just sit around, man...panic!
The foul odor, dark color, and sludgy consistency make me suspect this is not fluff, but something else entirely.
The location info below your avatar makes me want to go order a new switch assembly. But...ain't nobody got time for that.
As a public service:
Best oil for 996
Oil change extravaganza
Total Quartz
(Woot!)
Cold weather oil!
Mobil One: Should I stay or should I go?
Ooo...
Valvoline
. Mixing it up.
KrazyK
talks oil
!
The Great Oil Debate
The
shortest oil thread ever
!
Gonzo's
blast from the past
oil thread
Hurdi's Definitive Guide to Acquiring Oil
Chemistry is fun!
87 comments about 996 oil
Oil for
high milers...
The question was rhetorical, and
the answer is always no
...
One for the experts
More
chemistry
!
Oops
!
This one's called
Oil Oil Oil!
Good question DB, I've never had a problem with it so I wouldn't know. Top Gear Top Tip: I also take out the IMSB every 3-5k miles, check it, dip it in SuperTech, spray a little WD-40 in the seals to keep everything moving, and then put it back in...so far so good. It's really not that hard to get to once you get used to doing it every few months.
I heard that 996 engines in general are faster if you take out the air filter and run 5 quarts of 10w-20 oil.......
...joking. Please no one do this.... Just want to be involved in this banter since the TT board is so serious.
Lake Speed Jr. of Joe Gibbs DRIVEN, Charles Navarro and I will be hosting at least one two day oil class at my new Advanced Research & Training Facility in 2015.
No need to go over it here on the forums, come to my world and learn the things that we did through the formulation of many oils, for many engines. The M96 is just one of my developmental platforms.
I already have data from it, we received a few gallons from the fatherland very early on.
Thats all I am willing to say anywhere online, especially in a forum.
And just a little more awesome. Obviously I'm kidding with regards to the SuperTech, but it got KK freaked out and breathing into a paper bag, which is half the point of this forum...at least for me.
Hmmm, I guess the big question is why are you doing all these oil analysis on a new car, not to mention the new engine design and is it really relevant considering you have less than 10k miles?
I would think the first two oil changes would always be the worst as it's gonna have various metals during the break in process.
Wow! This is a big question for you? Really? You are going to be so disappointed with my answers.
Because I can. And because I want to.
And what does the new engine design have to do with anything?
What do you see in those reports that lead you to believe that JG DT40 oil is better than Mobil 1 0w-40? I do not see anything in those reports that makes JG DT40 stand out compared to Mobil 0w-40.
I do not count the slightly higher readings for some metals as those are just a sign the engine was still breaking in.
From doing comparison to other UOAs.
JG has better zinc levels.
JG has better phosphorus levels.
I am not happy with JG shear viscosities though.
My wear metals have dropped to levels that I normally don't see until about 20,000 miles. So good on JG.
Good comps to the Universal Values too.
I personally use 10-40 regular oil at one of those cheap oil changes every 7k mikes. Call me stupid but been doing it for 70k mikes going back to my last Boxster before I sold it at 110k miles.
The rates at which wear metal levels drop for two different engines is hardly a valid comparison.
Mobil 1 0w-40 comes with a nominal zinc level of 1100ppm. The low number could be attributed to the zinc being "consumed" due to the higher levels of friction in the new engine. Zinc is an anti-wear/anti-scuff additive. Also, zinc plays a dual role and is part of the corrosion fighting additives. A new engine would probably accumulate more corrosion causing contaminates so this could also play a role in the lower zinc reading.
Phosphorous is the additive that can coat the converters with a glass like layer that renders the converters kaput. It is by forming under heat/pressure at marginal lubrication points a glass like layer that protects engine components from metal to metal contact.
Again, I see nothing in the UOA's that suggest either oil is superior to the other, although the higher level of phosphorous in the DT40 oil would have me concerned about converter problems down the road.
Don't agree at all. What service intervals are you using when comparing this, and stating that the JG oil is "shearing"? What data are you using to interpret this? In every HTHS that has been carried out JG has killed anything it has been put up against of the same grade.
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This doesn't make sense. If your JG oil was shearing you'd not see reduced war metals. When I look at anUOA wear metals are 3rd on my list of things that I look at. Being able to thoroughly interpret UOA is something that takes a lot of time to achieve. You can't sit back and look at data alone, you must see dyno data and you must tear engines back down and look at them. Practically applying things is what takes the most time and the most money, and what the fewest amount of people know how to perform correctly.
Cross pollination between oils can take 4-5 oil services before you are comparing apples to apples. During development we have gone so far as to completely disassemble an engine to clean the prior product before beginning the back to back comparisons between oils. Taking things this seriously is why JG sought us out for the developmental work for their European oils.
Or because of a higher detergency balance than that of the anti- wear package. This is because of an oil being designed to "keep your engine cleaner", rather than keeping it better lubricated.
Don't forget the dispersant package- its what dictates more than people think.
Your car is German, not Asian. Asian cats are proven to be sensitive to higher levels of Zn and P, but thats simply not the case with European cats.
I have been developing oil products since 2002, and since 2006 we've been working with JG. During that time we've used OE and aftermarket cats on engines drink testing or after our reconstruction services for customers. I have used Zn levels up to 2750 PPM and P levels of over 1400 with absolutely zero issues. I have over 200 engines on the roads all over the world that have NEVER USED ANYTHING except JGBR during break in (2700PPM Zn) , JG/ Raby 40WT conventional intermediate oil (1500PPM Zn) and followed by DT40 (1250 PPM Zn). During that period we have never had a single catalytic converter failure.
Further, over the years I have used these oils in my own personal Porsches, one of which had a "cat aging" code when I got the car (it had always used M1 before). Today, some 6 years later, that same code exists and the converter still hasn't failed completely when using DT40 the entire time I have owned it. I am seeing how long it will go before the cat finally fails when using high levels of Zn and P.
Not once, not ever. Trust me, at our level, if we have an issue (with anything) I hear about it immediately.
No matter what anyone may assume, or read about, practical application and time in service is what separates the men from the boys.
Speaking as a parrot, I speculate (though not as wildly as some) that Porsche when they recommend Mobil 1 for my 2009 C2S that they know what they are talking about. I do not have a 996 with IMS and further speculate that yes that was a mistake for Porsche but that they would have learnt from it. To think otherwise is _____. Fill in the blank. Not that the finer points are not valid. I just read about someone getting a massive increase in hp when replacing stock exhaust system with lightweight x-pipe. According to the manufacturer the hp increase was all of 3%.
The oil companies have less phosphorous and zinc in their oils because of environmental regulations that are forced on them. The oils would be different and better without the regulations. I like the DT40. I don't believe that because the factory recommends MOBIL ONE that it must be the best, there are many reasons why the factory will recommend something. Their recommendations will work but I don't think they are the best.
Many people don't realize that there is a marketing element to that. For example, does Wallmart have Joe Gibbs DT40? or Pep Boys? or Autozone? And the answer is "No." The dealer has to recommend an oil that works well for the car but is also ubiquitously available to enable timely oil service.
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