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YOUR RESEARCHThe 996 isn't that big!
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I think it has grown a bit but in no way is it "big" or too heavy they're actually lighter than the 993 it replaced which is hard to do in the automotive world.
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So a long way of saying, I use anything that supports my negotiating position.
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There's nothing more expensive than a cheap, used, German car.
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Sure there is, in the automotive world a cheap, used Italian car will rape your wallet harder.
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Dimensionally they are all probably pretty close NB 993/996/997 the body style changes appear to make them look bigger.
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I think it has grown a bit but in no way is it "big" or too heavy they're actually lighter than the 993 it replaced which is hard to do in the automotive world.
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Suggestion
I use KBB if/when it is to my advantage to say "this is the industry standard and I'm not willing to pay more." I sure don't use the asking prices on eBay.
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So, one thing I always heard during my air cooled 911 ownership was how a lot of people with air cooled Porsches think the 996 grew too "big" well I never thought so. I think it has grown a bit but in no way is it "big" or too heavy they're actually lighter than the 993 it replaced which is hard to do in the automotive world. Here is a size comparison of my 996 parked next to an average sized 4 door car, not that "big" in my eyes.
The 996 isn't that big but it is bigger. And a lot of it is to hold coolant and fans and pipes to move the coolant around. The good bigger is the back seat area. Some people don't mind how big Corvettes and Ferraris have become but I don't think they can hold a candle to the 246 Dino or the 1962 Vettes. And I don't think any of the new watercooled 911s...996,997, 991...can hold a candle to the balance of lines and size in the 993. All designs reach a peak...and then they start to fall apart through excess.
993 does have beautiful lines, I noticed you have grown fond of them and looking to purchase one from your recent posts and threads. Good luck on the hunt the 911's are addicting once you scratch the itch it never goes away.
not sure what the specs are. Dimensionally they are all probably pretty close NB 993/996/997 the body style changes appear to make them look bigger. Now I have to go look!
It visually gets bigger every generation.
I've noticed this as well with pickup trucks.
Look at a new Toyota Tundra vs a ten-year-old Tundra.
Wheelbase width/length are very similar but new one looks HUGE! It's just the trend of cars. IMO I don't like ANY car made in the last 5 years. They all look bloated and puffy, like someone put their mouth on the tailpipe and blew lol.
I've always like the 993 the best. Had one in 96 thru 98...sold it for money/business reasons, now looking to get one but not at the frothy prices that most sellers are asking. I want a good beater. Much like my 996. Right now dealers and speculators are asking silly prices and private parties think they'll get the same. Watching the cars that don't sell on ebay is a hint of reality.
KBB gives a value of just over $41k for a Good Condition or Better MY95 coupe w/ 61k miles, which I take as offering $35 and buying at $38 or $39. Private party in same condition they suggest $35400.
Cabs and Targa (considering the costs of their tops) are less desireable and should go for three to five thousand less.
Edmunds is about six years behind the times giving trade-in value of $13,500 and dealer retail of $16,385.
True they are practically the same size with the 997 being slightly taller and wider.
I think though the rear end is much taller and wider which makes you think that it is bigger.
Length 996 4465 mm 997.2 4466 mm
Width 996 1770 mm 997.2 1808 mm - Widebody - 996 wb 1830 mm 997.2 wb 1852 mm
Height 996 1305 mm 997.2 1310 mm - Widebody - 996 wb 1295 mm 997.2 wb 1310 mm
Wheelbase 996 2350 mm 997.2 2350 mm
Funny, I talked this over with my wife on the way to work today. I'll probably wind up keeping the 911 for the long term - the newer 911s, and even the current-gen Boxster and Cayman, just seem really big in comparison.
You're in the wrong time period/market to be buying one of these. I highly doubt you'll be able to get a "good" one at those prices but you never know and might get lucky.
In all car makes, there are generations that are mechanically superior and ones that are visually superior. And there are ones that simply do the job well without ringing any bells. I prefer the 996 to the 997 and 991 on pure visuals...and size or the appearance of size is a big factor. And that is inside and outside. The car is more than fast enough. It makes great noise. It feels good on the road. People can't believe they are looking at a 12 year old car. I enjoy it every time I get in it, and I get in it every chance I can. If a 993 comes along and the price is right, I'll probably make the change. And if not, life is very good just as it is.
You're not seriously using KBB as a litmus test for 993s, are you? I agree that prices for 993s and 964s are out of control, but people are still paying those prices and more. You wouldn't trust KBB for a mint E30 M3, would you? 3.0CSL?
Dealers use it. Especially when they value your trade in. And yes people are paying those prices today...but I observe more and more cars taking longer and longer to sell.
Buying a car is negotiating and justifying your own numbers. In the end everyone has a rational why their price is the right one.
I use KBB if/when it is to my advantage to say "this is the industry standard and I'm not willing to pay more." I sure don't use the asking prices on eBay. And obviously Edmunds values are from another planet. Don't look at what they are asking on ebay...look at the completed auctions and see what they sold for...and very often didn't sell.
Porsche 993 owners, for the most part, are drinking the same koolaide that tech stock buyers were drinking in 2000. Smart stock buyers waited for the market correction and them came in and bought at better prices.
In the case of the 993 we are not dealing with a "needed" product, we are dealing with a luxury item. For a small segment of buyers money is no object and so price is often not an issue.
But dealers don't like cars sitting on their lots. If something doesn't move, they'll drop the price until it does. Same with many private parties. They are selling for a reason. They want the money for something else that has become more important.
Auctions like to hype the big tickets...but they don't spend a lot of time talking about sellers who left uphappy...not because the price they got was unfair...because their expectations were too high.
So a long way of saying, I use anything that supports my negotiating position.
Good luck finding a well sorted 993 then. You'll probably be waiting until the economy slips again (2016 maybe?), but I agree if you're patient, you will find something.
As I said before, the 993 prices are nuts, but are they along the lines of the wackos paying $450+ for JDSU in 1999? We'll find out together.
But in regard to using KBB - do I think you can use KBB as a tool for some of these classics? No, I wouldn't. If you want to negotiate with a dealer, that's your business, but caveat emptor. If I was buying a 964 or 993, I'd rather buy from an enthusiast with documentation, rather than someone moving inventory.
There's nothing more expensive than a cheap, used, German car.
I have 5 or 6 classic American cars for sale right now. I'd love to get anywhere near what KBB Classic says they're worth- ain't gonna happen. Lots of offers to trade for Harleys though!
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