Oil filter metal debris (pic included)

Hello guys, I did oil change today. Found quite a lot metal debris on oil filter. (I'm fresh owner so not sure when oil filter was changed and how many miles on it) Seems not good to me but wanna ask you guys on your experience. Thanks a lot. (EDIT: It's Porsche 996 3.4l, 1999 non-turbo)

Are the debris ferrous?

Is it too late to get an oil analysis done (Blackstone, etc.)? This might narrow down what metal it is, if it is metal.

Oil test is easy, quick and cheap. Not to mention it develops a baseline.

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Yes, would be worth a uoa. Change oil and filter. Drop the sump and inspect that as well? right after then do another uoa in 1000m. Or sooner. Hope it's just historic. Good luck

Somethings not happy in there.

That looks exactly like my 99 996 when the IMS started to fail. Most likely pieces of the cage around the ball bearings. That�s the problem with the dual row, they will be failing for a while before they let loose. Sending metal throughout the engine. It also appears you have some chain tensioner/chain guide material as well. (The brown bits) I�m in the middle of a complete rebuild because of it. In hindsight, there was no evidence of damage from the metal, so I probably could have changed the IMS, changed the oil multiple times and been fine. But I didn�t know that until I had it apart. Since I was in there I may as well... fill in the blank.

I nominate this for best first post of the year! Good advice given above. If you can, get an oil analysis done. If not, change the oil again Real Soon Now. Lather/rinse/repeat. You could be looking at a neglected oil filter, or you could be looking at something very much more costly. First things first -- establish your own baseline.

I�m a big believer in doing an oil analysis as preventative maintenance. The analysis is looking for trace metal particulates, super small... what you have is chunks. Chunks are from something failing, not something wearing. My advice... don�t run it again until you do some digging.

Get a oil test done by Oilvue, it will include a PQI value that will show ferrous metal debris that is bigger than what a normal Spectro-analysis will show. IF the PQi value is high, there is a very good chance that that debris is coming from the IMS bearing

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Some black pieces are magnetic. But most of debris seems not.

if they aren't magnetic, it could be early bore scoring. I would drop the sump, and get a borescope ($80 on amazon) and inspect each cyl, cranking the piston to the top of the stroke and checking each one. Another non ferrous possibility is that you wore through the chain guides, and are now wearing out the aluminum base material on the tensioner. Have you checked cam deviations?

Bearings... as in crank, rods, cams...??? I wouldn't run the car anymore until source is found. That is a lot of trash in the filter.

Chunks like that in any filter is bad enough but in a M96 engine it could mean VERY bad things. Like others have said, drain the oil, send it off to be analyzed. I wouldn't drive it another inch until I know what's in it. In fact, I'd drop the sump and scope the cylinders. If you aren't mechanically inclined to do so, I'd set up a meeting with an independent mechanic to scope it for you. You need a complete picture. Worst case? IMS is bad and is damaging your engine. Worst-WORST case? IMS is bad AND you have bore scoring. Best case? Well, there really isn't one. Metal THAT size in your filter not good my friend. Good luck.

One thing is for sure, I wouldn't be driving it (unless it was to my Indy shop) until I found out exactly what was causing all that. I only had a few (very few) small specs of metal in my oil filter upon purchase. Had it towed to the Indy. He dropped the motor and the IMSB was in the process failing. Not the kind of money I was looking to spend before I got to drive her home, but we caught it real early and got very lucky.

People giving advice make sure your only looking at the pics from the op. Another person posted photos that show much more debris. The op I would definitely drop the sump and get the cam deviations check. There may a lot more of the brown and black bits in there. Fresh oil and filter and an oil analysis would be a good start.

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I can�t imagine my pictures confused anyone. But maybe... the OP actually has much more debris in his filter, what I had may have been bigger but certainly not more. The stack of garbage sitting in front of my bearing actually came out of the IMS shaft after I pulled the bearing. Anyway, I�d encourage the OP to take the conservative route and not even start the car. Unless of course, one of you recommending an oil change, drive for a while, get the oil analyzed want to put up the 20k for when whatever �it� is let�s loose. Said totally tongue in cheek. 😁 not trying to start a war, just don�t want to see someone get burned worse than they already have.

@john.the.angel what did you notice when you held a magnet to the particles on the filter paper? Did it pick them up? Dropped the sump yet? Metal flakes at the bottom might appear copper-coloured but that's most probably due to the dark oil.

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Only the black flakes are magnetic.Some of them are they quite bigger size. Silver and copper-coloured don't hold on magnet. I've ordred new oil and filter so I will do short ride and check filter again. Not sure what do you mean by filter analysis? What is this analyse looking for and how this helps?

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Silver and copper??!! That could be from a either a crank or rod bearing. Just a WAG but it's possible. DO NOT DRIVE until you confirm.

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If the guides were worn through would that throw a code? I thought heavy cam deviation would at least cause a CEL.

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Still copper colored when all the oil was rinsed off using brake (or carb) cleaner? Then very probably bearing material. If not rinsed then not necessarily so and you should rinse the particles and check their colour again. Where did you read filter analysis? Oh wait, you probably meant oil analysis, right? Please be precise in your wording as it's vital to get any meaningful help from an Internet message board...Hard enough as it is. Read up on used oil analysis, especially the one that Porschetech3 mentioned. Google is your friend.

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I was in the same situation as Mdelay a year ago. I found magnetic debris in the oil filter, maybe 50% of the debris you have. Long story short it turned out my dual row LN IMSB had started failing. I caught it pretty early but I drove the car for several months under the advice of my indies while doing filter inspections trying to figure out what the cause was or if it would go away. I had just done some track events on that oil so I thought it might have been one time damage. I and two indies couldn't find out what was causing it so I had it torn down. Once he had it apart he found pitting in the IMSB and it was starting to get loose. No sign of any other failures or damage. The engine went through a rebuild and I had them install the LN Solution. I wouldn't drive it. I'd drop the sump plate and see what other evidence you can find. Take it to an indy that specializes in these and see what they have to say. Save the filter and the pics. Run a magnet across the particles to see if they are ferrous. An oil analysis may not help but it can't hurt. Mine confirmed that the amount of iron was high for the mileage and wasn't dropping. I just read some of the other posts. Black ferrous flakes could be timing chain material. Copper colored material could be main bearings. In my case I had silver colored magnetic particles. In the pictures some of them looked copper but they weren't in real life.

The Black ferrous debris is coming from the Ferro-Print coating on the pistons...not any chain guides as they are non-magnetic plastic material

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Didn't the early '99 model 996 cars have "ferrostan" instead of Ferroprint? It's my understanding from Charles Navarro and Barry Hart that the problem with flaking wasn't an issue with ferrostan piston skirt coatings like that of later ferroprint coatings. http://lnengineering.com/files/2019-...er-Systems.pdf

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Yes you are 100% correct, I didn't pay close enough attention to the year model of the OP car.........I committed one of those sins that I get peeved about...lol

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you just pointed out another 99 difference why they are real different. Lokasil 1 vs lokasil 2. Long live the 99s specially the early cars. In addition to the traditional oil analysis you can get ferrography done if they have the capability and understanding of where the different metals belong in this engine. That type of analysis will tell you the type of wear that is happening because it looks at the size and shape of the particles in question. We used to do a lot of those evaluating racing engines and oil specially for long races. We would always look at samples from the Coca Cola 600, that race was a graveyard for a lot of engines. We would also do Rolex 24 at Daytona and Sebring 12s. Drop the sump. Good luck 🍀 hopefully you can save the 99.

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So now what do we think black magnetic bits are from?

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We did a full three hour video on how to analyze and identify the debris found in the sump of an M9X engine. Follow the links at the end to gain access to this content. You Tube