29 captured repliesDiscussion pagination complete · Source accounts, not a confirmed diagnosis
THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCH996 Logic?
Leading reported evidence
Test aos only by removing cap
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
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Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
Tested AOS only by removing cap to oil filler tube
Leading evidence: 'Test aos only by removing cap' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'same scenario' (1 discussions; 0 report identifying it and 1 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Check magnetic plug and cut open oil filter each' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
Source reports, not a diagnosis or a success probability. Counts refer to discussions and can overlap.
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Suspected cause · Original poster
It appears the Imsb was overblown, this is likely the same scenario.
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Suggestion · Original poster
14 oil changes in 8 years ownership (Mobil 1, 0w-40), check magnetic plug and cut open oil filter each change
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Suggestion
Have you dropped the sump to inspect for metal debris?
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Suggestion
Most IMS bearing failures happened early on because of Porsche's recommended 15k-20k oil change interval lol.
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Suggestion
Now you had a lot of people who bought a 5 year old 911 for the price of a new Honda Accord...and they were petrified that they might be stuck with a big paperweight that the couldn't afford to replace the engine of.
Counts describe captured discussions, not unique people or a diagnosis. Author identities are not reliably stored. Exact duplicate evidence is counted once across matching discussions; one discussion counts at most once per action/state. Multiple repairs reported together remain a combination. Suggestions and failed attempts do not establish a fix. Matches cover whole discussions and can include related faults, model variants and incomplete threads.
29 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
0 evidence records excluded for query context · 0 excluded by outcome qualification · 0 adjusted by outcome qualification.
1 acknowledgements have no verified action link; they do not establish a repair result.
Outcome without a verified action link
I'm sure it definitely didn't help, especially with the cylinder bore scoring issues.
Another BAT sale today for a silver 2002 Carrera 4S with 55k miles, sold for $40,251. One observer commented "Come on with the bore scoring. Can it happen, yes. Will it happen, not likely. It appears the Imsb was overblown, this is likely the same scenario. I feel like someone ran out of ImSB�s to fix and now came up with this to push. If all the obd reports check out good, a history of oil changes performed and a stack of receipts showing the car was looked after is good enough for me".
Question? Mine is the same 911 4S only a 2003 with 99,000 miles (almost all highway). I'm the second owner and have kept up with all maintenance, religious 5k oil changes (Mobil 0/40). Runs like the day I bought it 8 years ago for $38,000 with 39,000 miles. No smoke, no ticking, no metal in filter or magnetic plug. Been following this forum for past eight years. Do I break down and fall prey to all the potential issues these cars can, and many times do have, or do I continue to just drive it as my Indy mechanic recommends?
Just drive it man.
I think there has been a big pivot in the lifecycle of who owns/buys the 996. Early buyers were buying the most modern, recent edition of a legendary car. The fact that some engines blew up early - and Porsche's terrible reaction to it - was horrible for the brand reputation. You splurged on a $100K car (in 2002!) and it could need a $20K engine replacement any day? Production numbers were high and the front end similarity to the much cheaper Boxster pulled down values in the mid 2000s. Now you had a lot of people who bought a 5 year old 911 for the price of a new Honda Accord...and they were petrified that they might be stuck with a big paperweight that the couldn't afford to replace the engine of.
Now we're in the enthusiast part of the curve. People buying the car
expecting
that it might need a new engine someday. Maybe even
looking forward
to rebuilding the engine the way they want it done. More power. More custom. The 996 is a
great
enthusiast platform - it just took us 20 years to get here! I'm over 100,000 miles, and still love every minute of driving it.
some folks say that the biggest factor for bore scoring is the climate the car was owned in, and if it was a cold climate, was it driven in the winter? and if it was driven in the winter, what was the warm up procedure, did the owner let it idle to warm up? did they start driving immediately to redline?
Seems logical that the more questions that are answered "Yes" here the higher the chances for bore scoring, which is not just a 996 issue.
Just edited my response. Misread your post and my response was completely out of line. Please accept my apology.
Yes, they are real issues and all are easily prevented. Every single one. Starts with changing your oil at least 2x a year, not every 5,000 miles.
Tell us more about what maintenence you have done so far.
997's and 991's are apparently no better with their quirks with the PDK, water pumps, bore scoring, and now popping up VTS issues. You could almost say there's zero logic to being a Porsche owner unless you like speed and to gamble from time to time. 996 logic falls in the same, take measures to be preventative where you can and enjoy the drive. If the potential costs are worrying, there are more reasonable cars to own, albeit much less fun.
I look at it this way. There are almost immediate catastrophic failures and there are slow progressive ones. IMS can let go unexpectedly and cause some serious damage. Same for AOS, if you track your car or drive it aggressively, which you should from time to time when it's safe to do so. I'd address those sooner than later. Things like bore scoring are progressive failures. People have been driving for a long time with scored cylinders while figuring out next steps or waiting for a rebuild. The cool thing about Porsche's is that they will tell you when something is not right and sometimes give you several opportunities to fix things. The trick is you need to be paying attention to the signs. Worst thing you can do actually, is not drive the car. The garage queens have been known to manifest more issues than tracked cars. You're sitting at just over 5k miles / year, which I find the minimum these cars should be driven, personally.
Yes, operate in cold climate, drive to ski areas, and always warmed up properly by driving off immediately and keeping under 3000 rpm until temp hits 180. I own and drive 7 cars and use the same principles for operating on all my vehicles. I log about 30,000 miles per year spread out between the Porsche, Range Rover and F-350. Other than low clearance the 911 is the best handling snow car of everything I drive.
When either I decide or the car decides its time, I would make the same modifications as you have done to your 2003 C4S. How long ago did you do the RND rebuild and with how many miles on the engine before rebuilding?
I had about 91,000 miles before the bearing started to shred metal. I bought the car from the original owner who put around 87,000 miles on it. This all happened in 2018. It's a great motor with all the upgrades you can get, very happy. Please remember that even if the water temp gauge says 180 the oil is not there yet. Just my .02. Good luck.
That's good. Personally, you need to decide if your approach to keeping this car healthy is proactive OR reactive. Most just drive and react when something breaks. I recommend being proactive. That means changing out parts that are known problems. Every part has a time-in-service interval. Remember, we're talking 20 years with most of the parts on this car.
Let me ask you a random parts questions:
Have you changed out the water pump? That's another failure point that could lead to serious engine issues if ignored.
What about the coolant, have you flushed it? Tested it for any signs of intermix?
I assume you change your oil twice a year or every 5000 miles, correct? Have you dropped the sump to inspect for metal debris?
Have you scoped the cylinders to examine the health of the cylinder bores?
Have you tested the health of the AOS by hooking up a manometer to the oil filler tube?
What about the coils and plugs... changed those out?
On and on it goes. Some would think it's foolish to just start replacing things. They live by the philosophy that if it ain't broken, then don't fix it.
Would you be able to supply us with a diy for testing for intermix and also testing the AOS? Is there a link somewhere? I had a coolant flush done about 4k miles ago, but unknown history of water pump, thermostat, and expansion tank. I plan on doing these items soon when I do my engine mounts. These things seem to go well together to do them at one shot regarding removing intake and secondary air pump and such, dropping engine, etc.
Most IMS bearing failures happened early on because of Porsche's recommended 15k-20k oil change interval lol. I'm speculating, but it makes sense to me.
I am sure many of the original owners followed Porsche's recommendation.
Water Pump replaced
New radiators and coolant flush
14 oil changes in 8 years ownership (Mobil 1, 0w-40), check magnetic plug and cut open oil filter each change
No bore scoping, Porsche mechanic says that it's to be expected that there is some degree in bore scoping in any motor.
Tested AOS only by removing cap to oil filler tube
Coils and plugs at 90k
Your Porsche mechanic is wrong to generalize. Many healthy Porsche engines never see even the slightest amount of bore scoring. Maybe he meant the M96?
I would recommend at least pulling the plug on #6 or follow Jake Raby's procedure of scoping from the sump.
You Tube
You Tube
B3 just gave you a hand delivered tutorial.
IMHO, if you want to know the true condition of your engine so you can make the appropriate adjustments to either prolong engine life if you have bore scoring as well as prepare for an eventual rebuild, or find that you have no bore scoring and you can confidently begin a refresh of your engine bits and car in general, I would do the following:
1. Begin testing your oil to see what's in it to give you an indication of what may be failing inside your engine. If anything at all.
2. Drop your sump and see what bits are sitting in there. Pull apart your oil filter and do the same.
3. Scope your bores to see their condition.
These 3 procedures cost a couple of bucks, but they will pay huge dividends.
If everything checks out perfectly, then you have nothing to worry about other than refreshing old parts and changing your oil at least 2x a year.
If you have a problem or two, you now know and can work to address it.
You have nothing to fear. We know more about the 996 and M96 engine than any other. It has more solutions than any other engine as a result due to its useage. Don't forget, the M96 in one way shape or form, sits in more Porsches than any other engine including the 986, 987, 996, 997.1.
This is a source reference. Confirm exact model applicability in the original material.
