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YOUR RESEARCHEngine locked on start. Need help! First Porsche ever, new owner.
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often the large cable called the 'y' cable
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Reported cause
Most people replace the batt, then the starter, but the real culprit is often the large cable called the 'Y' cable.
Engine locked on start. Need help! First Porsche ever, new owner.
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Leading evidence: 'often the large cable called the 'y' cable' (1 discussions report identifying this cause; no attributable repair resolution). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'often the large cable called the 'y' cable' (1 discussions; 1 report identifying it and 0 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Check rechecking' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
So, I disassembled and greased the old starter, removed the failed starter, inspected the flywheel for any damage and reinstalled the old one.
Engine locked on start. Need help! First Porsche ever, new owner.
Replace starter 1 week ago
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Engine locked on start. Need help! First Porsche ever, new owner.
Replace weak starter
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
To OP: You replaced a weak starter with a remanned starter, then it failed, so you put the original weak starter back in.
Engine locked on start. Need help! First Porsche ever, new owner.
starter was not at fault
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Suspected cause
More than likely the old starter was not at fault for the original problem mis-diagnosis.
Engine locked on start. Need help! First Porsche ever, new owner.
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1999 996 Carrera with 6 speed. Owned car for less than a month, first Porsche ever. Many recent upgrades and low miles on fresh built engine.
Started and drove car early this morning. Starter was weak when I purchased car 4 weeks ago. Just replaced starter 1 week ago with reman unit. Better but still hard to start when warm. Occasionally have to roll start it when warm. No smoke, no sounds, no problems. Oil good and clean. Freshly built engine with many upgrades.
Went to crank car to go to work after having driven it to gym. Very sluggish turn over which it has been doing while warm. Cranked for maybe 2 revolutions, didn't catch, heard a pop sound and everything locked up. Tried to roll start it and it just slid the rear tires when I popped the clutch in 2nd, did not spin engine. Starter does nothing, doesn't move the engine. Nothing moving. Is it possible that there was a bad starter failure that locked up engine? Again, this is a low miles (less than 10k), fresh engine from UFO motorsports. New upgraded bearings and many other upgrades including new 3.6L crank, over bore Nickies cyl, JE pistons, upgraded valve springs and head work plus many others. Please help!
Flatbed the car to UFO or a Porsche dealer and let them look at the car. They will be able to tell you what is actually going on. Asking here is asking for people to guess.
It's possible that the starter failed in such a way that it remained engaged. My starter had similar heat-soak issues, but I replaced it before it failed completely.
There are only a couple of bolts holding the starter on (once you get the intake plenum out of the way) - yank the starter and see if the car is still seized.
Be sure to disconnect the battery before messing with the starter.
Starters are cheap; the remanned one I bought from Amazon was a whopping $128. Seems strange to skimp on replacing the starter when you have that much money tied up in that motor.
Agree ^ the starter bendix is probably stuck/frozen on the flywheel. You could try rocking it gently in reverse to see if it releases. But I would not attempt to start the car again with that starter until it is pulled and checked. My experience with a remanned starter was not so good either. The housing broke on the end and it sounded like hell. It was around 1 year old. Get a new Bosch starter from Amazon. I put in the new starter and good to go on about 2.5 years now. Daily driver and many starts.
A warning - if the bendix and/or end of the starter housing is cracked, pieces could fall off requiring separating the transmission and engine to retrieve the pieces. I would not hit that starter again.
Another vote for starter bendix frozen into the flywheel.
1) Disconnect Batt +, remove the starter you installed.
2) Inspect the starter shaft, and the flywheel gear teeth with a light.
3) Now try to move the engine with a large socket, or try to bump the engine in 3rd gear, see if it moves.
There is a common failure point which causes sluggish cranking. The large cable between the starter + lug, and the alternator fail with high resistance, and this causes the symptoms you have been seeing in the recent past with hard to start when warm. Most people replace the batt, then the starter, but the real culprit is often the large cable called the 'Y' cable. If you engine isn't locked up inside, plan to replace the Y cable soon.
Hey guys. Thanks for the help so far. I will try rocking it and see if the starter will disengage. If not, I will have to trailer it to my shop where I can pull the starter off and see if it frees the engine up. I suspect it is the starter. Only reason I got a reman was because this particular company had great reviews. I will keep you posted.
Possibly there's interference in the motor. Borescope the spark plug tubes to inspect the cylinder walls. While you're in there soak the cylinders with penetrating fluid over night and try to rotate the motor the next day.
I'm not sure what the point of penetrating oil would be on a motor the locked up while attempting to start. If it's not the starter locked up then something went seriously wrong and no amount of penetrating oil is going to fix that
This, because if it is hydrolocked....... pushing it to turn over will only cause a LOT of damage.
If Not the starter motor, remove plugs (and coil packs) and try to gently turn over by hand.
tell us results. we can continue diagnosis from there.
Sooo... My car has problems starting when warm as well... Cold starts like a champ, but it doesnt like to fire back up when stopped at a gas station or beer store or anything. I have to give it gas when its cranking for it to fire up.... Sounds like I need a new starter as well.
Can anyone provide a link to the ones on Amazon you are mentioning?
I had the same problem. Starter gets heat soaked and weak. New starter fixed it right up. Look for a Bosch SR0808N for a 99 C2 on Amazon. My advice - get a new one instead of a remanned.
Great pricing on the wire harness replacement cables, and starters at
www.rndeuroparts.com
Some of the prices there are better than what we can get at wholesale!
If it hard starts mostly after fueling, there is a regeneration valve in the engine compartment. May not be the cause but it solved my hard start after fueling issue.
Yep, a seized alternator caused my engine lock up issue. Nearly caused me to have a stroke. Shipped it off to Flat 6 for a motor and Jake had it running within an hour of it arriving. Thanks again my friend!
Do you have a cable or an electric throttle? Cable ones have a tendency for the idle air controller to carbon up and stick open. This will cause hard starts when the engine is warm.
Ok update finally here:
Starter suffered a complete failure. It jammed the flywheel. Fortunately I kept the old starter rather than get the core charge. So, I disassembled and greased the old starter, removed the failed starter, inspected the flywheel for any damage and reinstalled the old one. Started and runs fine. Thanks for all the great tips and help!
Ouch...That must have been one expensive alternator after the roundtrip shipping charges (for the whole car
)... Sure beats a full re-build though - silver linings...
More than likely the old starter was not at fault for the original problem mis-diagnosis. Might as well use it as it's a known good working part. The new starter he bought only lasted a short time, which is consistent with the bathtub curve of infant mortality failures.
To OP: You replaced a weak starter with a remanned starter, then it failed, so you put the original weak starter back in. Why? With all the other expenses you have put into the car, I would like to know why you did not get a new starter. Or are you going to do this all over again very soon?
I think he did this to confirm that the issue was the starter and not a hydrolocked/grenaded/otherwise totally blown engine as some of our forum mates suggested.
Awesome news indeed and congrats to the OP!
BTW, that's why I never trust rebuilt starters and alternators, even from Bosch, both from first hand experience and from reading horror stories on the internet.
No argument here, but not sure what that has to do with the bathtub curve of failure rates? It is not remotely a gauss function. Frankly, I haven't done the math on the function of the failure rate curve.
...and I was going to let that one go - but you're right, a Gaussian curve and a bathtub curve are inconsistent; I'm not sure what Tony's point was. Unless his point was just to throw in some cool vocabulary to church up his posts and sound more credible. If that's the case, Tony, you can use Occam's Razor as necessary - I'm done with it for a while.
Observation: Many years ago when I worked as a railroad electrician there was this propensity to over-complicate troubleshooting. It led many on a "merry-go-round" of checking, rechecking, changing, rechecking, assuming the worst, repeat...etc. I have found, as some said above, check what was done prior to failure, especially if it involved rebuilt/questionable parts. Might just be the easiest answer that fixes the problem. It's not always a catastrophic cause. Says the guy who is starting to hear a knocking on the passenger side in the engine area! Oh well.
Railroad Electrician = Unionized Employee = Make it take as long as possible and get as many other union members/laborers/experts involved as possible... No real incentive to get it fixed quickly/easily/cheaply
True for some! I lasted three years as a wire twister and moved into management(non-union) for the remaining 32 years of my career. I had fun showing up some of the older-more experienced guys. Guess I had some pride in my work and the union never did anything for me except collect dues! My Dad told me the best troubleshooting tools you have are your eyes, ears and nose. He was right so many times!
Well I hate to say it but the sluggish sounds like the timing was off (probably retarded) and the unexpected seizure of the motor sounds like valves hitting Pistons. Don't try and start it anymore have somebody look at it you can peek in the spark plug hole to see if Pistons have little shiny half round smiles on them marks from the valves which means they were indeed hitting. Might as well pull the oil filter see if there's any metal filings in it.
The good news is the motor still intact you may have to replace a couple bent valves. But if the IMS bearing went then the motor is certainly full of metal filings needs to be torn down completely.
