To be or 996 to be

Hey guys newbie here with the 911 dream so please go easy. I have an opportunity to purchase this at around 7K This is from a seller: 2002 Porsche 911 C2 with 109k kms. It is in good condition on the exterior and interior, with the exception of the front hood, which had a low quality wrap applied, that I removed. The car comes with the turbo twist wheels, which are shown in the photo in the parking garage. I have two rear wings. The factory wing and the large black wing that is mounted. The car has bad bore-scoring. It drives good and pulls hard, but has an audible ticking noise at lower RPMs. Other selling features: -factory aero kit car -brand new brake rotors and pads -new fuel pump -good tires, -short shift kit -aftermarket coil-over suspension. I understand the car will either need a new engine or a rebuild. I�m fine with that. The car is also from Japan although the seller says no rust. I am preparing for the worse case scenario. What are the worse case scenarios here other than the engine?

Looks like a good project car! Your biggest expense will be to address the "bad" bore scoring by either repkacing the engine with a factory short block (~$20k) or an engine rebuild ($20-40k). With both comes the opportunity to refresh everything in the engine bay. If it was me, I would do it up front given the low purchase price and then enjoy it for the next few decades. Suspension & Exhaust system will be extra if the car needs it. Best situation is they are in good shape. Next best is that a few components need to be replaced. Worst case is they all need to be replaced. My best guess is that some components will need to be replaced which will save you some up front money that can be deferred for later. But a good indy can tell you with a PPI. The price looks good. You just have to find a great Porsche Specialist Indy or great M96 Engine Builder near you to swap/rebuild/refresh. Good luck and keep us posted.

O'Neill's rule. Solid, well sorted 911s that drive like new cost at least $40K. If you buy one for less than that, plan on making up the difference in repairs and refresh or your own labor. Given that rule, $7K is a good price.

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Well, sounds like you're getting in to it for a decent cost, and the miles aren't real high. And you know going in this will cost ya, thats a great start. Seems its got some good parts on it. Just try to Get it as cheap as you can is the best advice anyone can give you. As you will be spending a boatload on refreshing a 20+ year old 996. Are you a diy guy...? Do all the systems work,? key fobs, door locks/latches, windows, stereo ? any dash engine lights on...? what coil overs are one it..? Big pitfall many make is a gamble on used engines. Many are Frankenstein dismantler/boneyard creations. Some from reputable sellers might be ok for a while. But imo thats a big gamble and in the end its throwing good money to bad, but some do hit the jackpot. If you're a diy guy, do a nik-sil liner re-engineered block from Hartech or LN, it will cost ya around $7500 after all the shipping etc, is all said and done. Even if you're not a diy guy, whatever you do, best bet is nik-sil liners re-engineered block. Next best is a oem short block with Len Hoffman bullet proofed heads with new guides and seats. jmo

Do it

For that price I would grab it. If you change your mind after the fact, the factory aerokit pieces are worth the asking price of the car.

Well, that's a $37K car. The engine is just one thing, but it's also a 22 year-old car and you are going to find, much to your surprise, many, many other things that need to be repaired. Then there is the cost of importing and converting the car. Are you in the US? Nothing wrong with a wing (provided you have the front spoiler), but why does it have a GT3 badge on the rear? That's another bad sign, in my opinion.

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In what an imaculate 996 looks, I would add (from personal experience): 1. suspension control arms 2. full suspension struts etc 3. steering column wear 4. foam from vents repair 5. turn signals not cancelling 6. sunroof memory issues 7. tires 8. clutch/fluids/ 9. brakes+ discs all the above sum up to 10k. other things to consider on a cheap 20year old car

Looks like a non sunroof car so perfect donor for a club race car.

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True... Perfect car for an engine swap. When/if I ever get a roller like above, the 2.7 Audi 450hp single turbo swap kit is something I'd serious consider. Or An LS 450+hp swap. No way I'd go back with a 300-350?hp $25-70,000 m96 engine, even with nikies.

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stipulated to that this would be very cool. However, if starting from scratch I would not buy a car no matter cheap for this purpose. I would invest that money in a Turbo and come out ahead from every angle.

Looks like a nice find. Would love to build it out to a 4.1L for you...

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thank you guys for all the information I really do appreciate it. Will be looking and hopefully purchasing it this Thursday. Will have more pictures.

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The car was imported from Japan to Vancouver Canada. GT3 badge probably became a boy racer owned in Japan I�m assuming.

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Not a DYI mechanic guy at all unfortunately.

Someone with a banged up 996 track/race car would be all over this car if they are sitting a known engine and gearbox that they could drop in. I think those aerokit bumper covers aren't even available anymore so someone with a 996 Cup could use those as well.

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Bringing this to a shop that doesn't know the 996 and its engine very very well will be a major nightmare for sure. As even good meaning non m96 mechanics don't realize the m96 is a one time use block, non rebuildable without very expensive re-engineering the block... Do not let anyone sell you a cheap not aluminum sleeved nik-sil block rebuild, unless your plan is to flip this car. Even then its a big gamble. Pretty much your only great choices would be a SlakerHartech or LN rebuild 310-350whp..? whp that will cost $30-40,000 when all is said and done correctly by the installer. Or find a great 996 shop that can install a oem short block with reworked heads and all needed accessories, probably by the time you're done, still at 25-30k & 270-290whp. Well, this would be one of least expensive ways, with big power. supposedly turn key, drop it off and pick 450hp car up for $26,000. I would still do my due diligence on Renn27 as I know nothing more than from what I've read, sure sounds good.... buyer beware as always... https://www.renn27.com/components-an...rn-key-service jmo

I love Japan Imported Aero 996 cars !! Too bad your not a DIY'er !! If you were I would say buy it and drive it a month and fall in love with it, then buy the Raby M96 rebuild videos and educate yourself to do the rebuild the engine correctly your self, and enjoy the processes ....

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And that was my thought, which tells me that the machine probably did not get the proper care and feeding, nor driven well. Could be wrong, but things like that raise red flags. My advice, and not trying to be nasty or bust you balloon, but as a first-time buyer into the marque I would suggest something already well sorted and have adequate surplus funds in the bank for unforeseen surprises (and they will happen). Nothing spells despair more than buying into something you ultimately can't afford. What you should do first is join PCA. You can do that for a limited time without a car. Then hook up with the club members (preferably the local president) and tell them you are in the market. If you are lucky you might find a member selling a car, which is a better deal because enthusiasts generally take better care of their cars and club sellers generally don't want to treat other members badly. You will be far happier with something that hasn't been bastardized that costs more up front, but has a better chance of not putting you onto the street. Best of luck!

If you're a DIYer, buy it! If not, don't buy it unless you have a LOT of cash available!!! If you're a DIYer, you're still going to need another $15K minimum.

Let's put this into perspective. It's a $7,000 996 that needs a new engine or rebuild with what looks like an interior in good shape and an aerokit. Most folks buy a 996 for $27,000 if not more and have to go thru the exact same thing. He is already in better shape by $20,000 versus his peer group.

I agree with TexSquirrel. If it were me: Buy, drive for a while and save up to do some sort of engine replacement. I'm liking the Renn27 option and would look hard at it if/when my engine goes but as little as I drive mine, it will probably outlast me and I'll be happy either way.

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First, I would like to know where he lives (USA, Canada...). Importing is another issue we haven't talked about. Second, we have no idea what available funds he has. While we have many, many unknowns so far, the one thing you can and should count on is that whatever you think it will cost, it will be more. Third, what are his goals? Is he looking for something to drive cheap? Does he want a project car? Does he really understand the magnitude of the job? Fourth, how much mechanical experience does he have? Not everyone is a good mechanic or even wants to learn how to rebuild a complex high-performance engine on their own. Rebuilding can be a wonderful hobby, but not something for the faint of heart. Mistakes can be very costly. Sorting out this car is high risk. That's probably why the current owner is trying to dump it. Many people have given sage advice here, but we really don't know the answers to the above and he should have provided that information up front so we can better advise on what he should do and what to expect.

I am looking at it as a racecar donor if the tub is strait. But for $7K, I see it being worth buying as it sits, pay for a shop to go through it and then make a decsion on the next step. If it turns out to be more than the OP is willing to dive into, it has a enough good that he could part it or sell it and recover more than the $7K.

Yep. It is high risk. Risk defined as outlay of capital. All depends on the purchase price, rebuild or swap price and the condition of the rest of the car and therefore what needs to be refreshed. As I have said countless times on the "Price" thread, you are better off paying up for a 996 with a M96 engine that has been well serviced and in great shape, as well as one with a refreshed suspension, exhaust, etc so you dont have to put $20-40k in for a rebuild, $15-20k for suspension and exhaust and another 10-15k in for all the pretty interior and exterior things that we all end up doing. But what if you just want to build a 996 from a body that you really want for a $7k purchase price, knowing you will pump $60k+ into it at the end of the day to get your dream car. Why not? But to Marv's point, make sure your eyes are wide open.

Yep, these cars are $75k - $95K New in 1999-2004 $ prices....Adjusted a for inflation considerably more.....( how much more $$? ) Having one in "like New condition" for $40-$60k is not easy today !! So buying one for $7k is actually comical...

Yeah, I would like a deal like that. Considering I bought my 2002 in 2002 and put more than my purchase price into the car over 22 years of ownership. For sure, it was worth the grins and giggles over the years. Can't wait for the next 22.

So many people see something at a ridiculously low price and think they can throw one or two thousand dollars into it and drive away. It's tempting, but the usual result is third-degree burns, then dumping it for a loss and having a very bad attitude about Porches thereafter. I don't wish that on anyone.

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Agreed. They cost money to keep running in top form. No matter how low of a price you paid for it. I am with you, my preference is to tell everybody what you gotta do to keep it running and what it's going to cost, whether you like it or not. To me it's worth it. but eyes need to be wide open.

I�m aiming to turn this into the perfect weekend car�a fun, drivable experience that I can truly enjoy. I want to take my time and do it right. This will be my fourth car. I already have a 1989 E30 manual convertible 320i (that I absolutely love) I bought from someone who imported from Germany into Canada some time ago. I bought it from the original owner and invested over $15K into it, upgrading everything from suspension and exhaust to electrical systems. It was an amazing project that I really enjoyed. I didn�t do anything myself. I also own a Model 3 Performance (a purchase made under the influence during the pandemic) and a family Toyota Sienna Hybrid. I don�t dislike money, but I�m also willing to spend it wisely and take the proper steps. My goal is to have a car that I can drive worry-free. I actually want to overhaul everything. In my opinion, any 996 or 997 will likely require an engine rebuild. Personally, I really like the 996, and it�s a project I�m willing to invest in.

I would seriously consider Slakkers offer to build your engine. Going cheap on an M96 engine build can mean paying twice. Outside of the Hartech methods used by Slakker I would build it only with LN engineering Nickies, I went with thier Nickies, deluxe kit and IMS Solution. Etc etc. A long slow engine build the right way beats a fast disaster and paying twice. Glad you love building cars. Love a 996 and it will love you back.

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Loved my 320i BMWs. Fun and agile. 996 is a large step up. Good luck with the project.

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Seems like you know the routine and your eyes are wide open. Enjoy building it. Keep us posted. We love this stuff and will help with questions. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I have had my 996 for 22 years and am looking forward to the next 22 years with it on the street, track, long distance trips, etc. It can handle it all. Key is to make sure you run the best parts, keep them fresh, service the hell out of it and make sure you run high quality oil and change it often.

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It's possible that you can achieve your goals with this car, assuming the body is straight. Be prepared to spend more than the resulting car will be worth however. Ignoring the engine for a moment: full suspension refresh will be needed to restore the handling qualities; exterior appears to have suffered abuse from amateurs; outward appearance also suggests deferred maintenance, so assume there are a dozen or so nickel-dimey things, such as windows that don't work correctly and so on, that will add up to serious coin. Plus given the boy-racer makeover it is possible that the transmission has been savaged. Now to the engine. A factory shortblock will save quite a few dollars compared with a proper rebuild -- and you don't want to make any other choice than one of those two. A proper rebuild will include the option of a substantial horsepower and torque boost, but you'll pay for it. Either choice will come with ~$10K worth of while-you-are-in-there foo. Congrats on the car. Start a thread!

Picked up the car�thanks a lot, gentlemen, for all the advice! The interior is in great shape, I'd rate it a solid 8/10. The exterior isn't bad either, probably around a 7/10. Someone put in a real effort to make it look like a GT3 🤦‍♂️ Absolutely loved driving it, but it only came with one key. It has an aftermarket Japanese radio that's completely unreadable. The engine sounds rough at low RPMs, almost like it's on its last legs, but it smooths out at higher RPMs. Makes me wonder how much life it has left. Overall, I'm excited! All the windows work, but the key doesn�t lock the car with the button

Ended up paying $6666 usd

interesting price

Congrats and excited to read more about the car and your projects!

Congrats! Fingers crossed that the suspension and exhaust system are in great shape. It will further save you some money near term.

well done. enjoy it. start with the basics, change the key battery....

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That means Rocket Bunny widebody kit next, right?

some pictures� the foam in the air vents is serious. Is it safe to breathe that? The air conditioner blows cold.

Brand new tires and rotors as well as fuel pump and break pads. Balanced wheels too.

A bad bore-scored engine and you are worried about "foam in the vents" ??? ....Hmmm......you are trolling right ?? Edit :: PS : The car looks good for a $7k project car ( for a DIY'er) .......

The local Porsche mechanics

The foam in the vents is a feature, not a bug! Even the cutaway 996 in the Porsche Museum in Stuttgart has the feature.

You're just starting down the path but from my experience, the longer I've had my 996 and the more I've done to it, the more I love it. Looks like a pretty clean $6,666 platform for the project. A number like that begs for a name like "Lucifer's Echo." The "black foam coming out of vents" is a well-trod DIY path, so that's no biggie. You'll likely run into other niggly issues like window drop problems, etc. but fortunately, there's a lot of good information/DIY helps on Rennlist and on YouTube for simple & rewarding projects. I'd be taking a hard look at the Renn2.7 swap before putting another M96 in. Those guys seem to have come up with an elegant solution at a price comparable to a M96 rebuild. https://www.renn27.com/ $26k for a turn-key installed motor seems competitive. Otherwise, I'd look at https://flat6innovations.com/ (Jake Raby's shop) for an M96 solution. Good luck, and welcome to the addiction.

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With the factory aerokit the car deserves nothing less than a Slakker, LN/Flat 6 innovations Nickies build with increased displacement and engine durability modifications.

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I'm really tempted by this engine, but I'm curious about its reliability. Is there any way to gauge that? I tried searching through Rennlist, but either I'm not using it correctly or there aren't many threads on this topic. My main goal is to find something that�s reliable, so I don't have to worry about issues like bore scoring or IMS failures�just something that will work smoothly for a long time.

Non-sunroof, Aero kit, some tasteful mods. Totally priced right. Even if the engine needs a rebuild, plenty of people out there who would want the car, especially someone who has a crashed 996 track car with a good engine.

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+1

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Slakker has brought over UKs Hartech developments, they Hartech have threads on the 911UK forum by Lee Jenkins. The Facebook site "Porsche engine gurus site has arguments about Nickies vs steel sleeves". The Facebook site is a broad church. This site Rennlist has many LN Engineering based engine rebuild threads. As well as posts by Jake Raby. There are not many negative posts or threads about Hartech/Slakker Builds or LN engineering builds, and LN engineering have taken over Jake Raby's "Flat six engineering" builds. Negative comments are about price, but these are performance and durability enhanced versions of a Super car challenger of the day. Saving money can mean paying twice, and a slick top factory aero deserves a Porsche engine. Not GM/Audi/Honda engine.

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porsche engine the only option as far as I�m concerned. I like that slakker offers 2 year warranty and ln doesn�t not offer a day past 12 months as per their website. But what happens in 3 to 5 years I wonder. Again I�m not a track guy at all, and am not thinking of daily driving it, more like a few days a week spring and summer.

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If you want a long warranty I recommend going with one of the cheaper alternatives. They'll offer the warranty then deny all responsibility when something goes wrong, but at least you'll have a nice piece of paper.

Interesting wheel choice by the PO...are they hollow spokes?

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How bad is the engine? Do you have some breathing room to drive it, enjoy it, and study up on the M96? No reason to jump into a rebuild when you don't know what you don't know.

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Want reliability? There is always the 996 Turbo. Those engines are pretty much bulletproof. They are a Mezger engine, which is completely different. However, an LN rebuild should be equally good.

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^^^^ LOL...One very smart guy once said "offer me the choice of a warranty or a nice Cuban Cigar, I'll take the Cuban Cigar every time..".....

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Sounds like something Julian Marx would say.

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where does one source that? How much more would it be?

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I would go back to the beginning of your thread and read it from start to finish. It should answer quite a few of your questions.

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https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/00f2e7e...b-c16b263a8e0a

Really no such thing as a bulletproof engine. We have a 996TT with a blown head gasket/cylinder casing and a 997TT with the well known spun cam sleeve issue in for rebuilds at the moment. And while the labor is similar to a Carrera engine rebuild, the parts cost significantly more to do a proper rebuild and fix known issues. And as far as I know, we are the ones to not only offer a 2 year unlimited mileage warranty but also cover track use (as long as our oil and cooling guidelines are followed). I�m also working on a program to offer extended warranties beyond that so that our customers can focus on enjoying their ownership experience. None of which we would be able to do without Hartech�s closed deck nikasil plated replacement cylinders and proven endurance racing design.

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Ant the reason I said pretty much bulletproof.

Engine out and look at that scoring!

Jake Raby built me a 3.6 back in 2015 for my Boxster S . It has 10,000 miles on it and I consider it just broken in . Zero complaints . I have a 996 that FSI built a 3.8 for 2 years ago . Rock solid and zero complaints .

Excited and looking forward to getting it back with 3.6 to 4.1 conversion using Hartech parts and methods. Alpine Autowerks in Calgary are awesome to help with it.

Fellow Vancouverite checking in. Big motor build is going to be awesome. Do I hear right that you are having this engine built in Calgary ? Some good local shops around, but in the end I'm sure your guys will do fine since the tech is well enough understood by now. I would *love* to do a similar upgrade but my 996.2 had a warranty engine replacement 175,000 km ago (295k are on the car total) and it's running super strong with no smoke or funny noises - so hard to justify. Looking forward to seeing this rig at local cars and coffee event - hopefully without the fake GT3 badge .

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​​​​​​ Fellow Vancouverite, appreciate the check-in! Yeah, you heard right—sent the engine and the whole car out to Calgary because apparently, asking for both competence and customer service in Vancouver Porsche shops is like asking for a unicorn that also does my taxes. Who knew? 🤷‍♂️ Your 996.2 sounds like a tank, though—295k km and still running strong? That’s Porsche’s way of saying, “Nice try, but you’re stuck with me forever.” Totally get why you wouldn’t mess with it. As for the GT3 badge conspiracy , I can assure you, the only thing fake on this car will be the owner’s humility. Can’t wait to roll up to cars and coffee and watch the purists hyperventilate. See you there! 😆

The work is done by Alpine Autowerks, picking up the car tomorrow. Super excited. The invoice is in Canadian Dollars.

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For music and Android auto this is the set up. Didn't have the subwoofer installed as I couldn't decide what might be best for the frunk. Head unit: Sony XAV-AX6000 Speakers: Focal PS 165 FE component speakers Amplifier: Alpine X-A90V 5-channel amp Additional gear: Metra 82-9010 speaker mounting brackets Kicker 46CK4 amp wiring kit SoundSkins Pro sound deadening material for the doors. Alpine HCE-C1100 backup camera

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What an epic drive from Calgary to Vancouver. Me and my dad in absolutely perfect sorted Hartech 4.1 rebuilt engine C2 996. It's a wonderful car now. Thank you Alpine Autowerks for devoting time and energy to this project. Couldn't be happier! 😁