Michelin Pilot Sport 4s vs Kumho Ecsta PS91 vs Sumitomo HTR Z5

Hello all... I need some new tires on my 2001 C2. I have Kumho Ecsta PS31s on them now from the previous owner and I can't say I loved them. I'm probably going to get the Pilot Sport 4S, but wanted to ask you all for your input first. On my 997.2 when I needed tires the Pilot Sport 2's were on back order, so I got some Bridgestone Potenza RE050A instead. The thought process was that they should have been decent since they were OEM on turbo models. I didn't think they were that great. They never felt connected to the road. The Kumhos I have on now are somewhat similar in feel... very vague. Should I just get the PS4s and call it a day, or is there similar performance and value in another tire? I won't be tracking it. Just spirited driving in the canyons and mountain passes. Thanks!

My 996 (2000 C2) needs new tires as well. I'm thinking I'll go with Michelin. I've only ever had Michelin and Sumi (HTRZIII) tires on my 996. I loved the Sumi's price but really loved the Michelin's performance...

I've had great luck with Falken. Not to confuse the issue with more options

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I had Falkens once before on my Lexus GS. Some of the best tires I ever had. Totally unexpected performance, considering I only bought them to get rid of the runflats and there was a sale coupon for them. What Falkens did you have on your 996?

I went from the Sumi HTRZ III to the HTR Z5 XL and love them. Night and day grip change. I am not sliding out like I was on the HTRZIII and the ride is quieter. As I got comfortable with my car and really started pushing in corners, the III's were sliding on me. Not now. Once theZ5's warm up, I am not afraid of sliding the rear end anymore, they just grab and go and for the price I couldn't be more happier. If I was to AX or track, it would be different but for spirited drives and canyons, I'll stick with these and save some $$$. My 2 cents...... '99 911 Front: 235/40ZR/18 Rear: 285/30ZR/18 I don't have a clue what size spacers I have, lol.

I used to not believe in a Michelin tire being worth the serious premium. That belief was based on previous comparison with Pirelli and Continental hi performance tires on different sport cars. But having put Conti and Pirelli on before Michelin, I can say both the AS3+ and PS4S are the top of the food chain for my 996. I have the 4S on my summer 19”s. I don’t say chew them up on a track, but day-to-day, I can’t ask for anything more out of a tire. Having tracked the top Pirelli and Michelins on several different 991s in wet and dry, I strongly believe Michelin is superior to any other road tire and worth the coin. The only trouble is finding the desired size 4S for 996 wheels.

Have had the Z5s on the car since last summer and love them. Great grip, smooth, and quiet to boot. I'd buy another set in a heartbeat!

I've got the 510's on. For my purpose it's pretty ideal. Way more grip than I can use on the road (I live in the mountains and have lots of awesome roads) and great in wet/cold too.

Usual problem with the stock 18” 996 wheels: tire size selection for the 510s. The Azenis 510s only come in 265/35 or 295/30 rears for 18”. The 295 will work with only like 3/8” difference in sidewall height (~1% change), but may look fat on your wheel. I haven’t seen what a 295/30 looks on a 10” rear. So you could go with the pinched 265 or larger 295 on 10” rears or up to a 10.5 or 11” rear for the 295 to closely match diameter with the 225/40 fronts. Testing by TR shows the Azenis is real good, but the Sumi Z5 is pretty close and might also suit you very well for the cost without changing wheels, rolling diameter, etc. All good choices it seems.

Just so this doesn�t become a �buy what I bought� scenario, I won�t even mention what tires I have. All I can say is, go read everything that�s available from the experts (race drivers, car magazines, PCA, etc...) and take the opinions of a bunch of guys on the forum with a grain of salt. The �best� is probably going to be the most expensive, but this doesn�t mean you have to buy the very best to get great performance for your driving style - buy what works best for you based on factual performance figures (not �Ive got X and they�re really good and they only cost $ xx.xx) and your realistic budget. Good Luck

I have the P4S and they are incredible. Reduced the road noise and grip amazing. check this out. You Tube

Anyone have a big issue running a different tire up front vs back? I have one very old front tire (2011 production date ps2) that I don't feel too comfortable driving on. I'd like to eventually replace all tires with something different. Should I get ps4s for the front 2 so they are at least the same brand? My rear ps2's still have lots of life left... all of them do... but I would rather not pay a premium for porsche spec ps2 when technology has come a long way for the same price or less. I figure replace the front with ps4s or something different as the rears wear faster.

Different brands and even models within the brand have different characteristics. Even tires of the same brand and model handle differently as they age....the older tires will be harder than the newer tires. Unless you are seriously knowledgeable about suspensions, tires, etc and are trying to optimize performance on the track, I would not mix and match tires. I always replace a full set....not just front or backs.

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Not recommended... Do people do it? Sure! Does it kill them? Maybe, maybe not... I wouldn't do it...

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I used to do it sometimes when I was young and broke. It never gave great results. You won't fly off the road, but it it's not ideal.

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Ironically, I've owned all three tire brands you have listed in the thread title. My opinion - Sumitomo for the win. Best bang for the buck. I had some reservations, but after reading so many positive from people here on the forums, I decided to put some on my Porsche. I love them! Makes me wonder why I spent so much for the Pilot Sports. The Kumho were ok... just ok tires. Nosey and the control wasn't there like on a Pilot Sport or Sumi, IMHO.

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Thanks! Which Michelins and Sumitomos did you have? You mentioned the brands, but did you have these specific tires? Also, was there no drop off at all going from Michelin to the Sumitomos?

I had the Pilot Super Sports on my car and really did like them. Haven't tried anything else, yet, but I may end up trying the Sumitomos. -Matt

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Falken tires are owned by Sumitomo and made in some of the same factories.

What about ride quality? Sumi vs. Michelins I have HTR III and might be buying a new set of tires, I think I have ruled out Pirelli because of the cold weather warning. -David

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PS4S (as was PSS before it) is strictly a "extreme performance summer tire" - all such tires will have a cold weather warning. Pirelli has winter (Sotozero) and summer tires (and probably all seasons) just like everyone else...

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DP I don't drive the car in the winter, but my garage is not heated. I guess I may not understand the cold warning on the adverse effects it has on tire compounds. If there is someone out here that can explain it.

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The short version is that summer-specific tires are typically made from rubber compounds that do not tolerate near-freezing temperatures very well. Now you might be thinking, no big deal if they get slippery in the cold, I'll just drive accordingly. What happens is that the rubber becomes permanently altered (damaged) in such a way that overall grip decreases. So your tires that let you bomb around corners in the Fall may feel not quite so grippy the next Spring despite having spent all winter in your non-heated garage. Then the following Spring, they'll be even more slippery. Third season, you'll feel like you're driving on worn-out all-seasons. My garage isn't heated, per se, but I do have a propane heater out there and I use it to keep the garage at least 40F in the winter. But to be safe, I store my motorcycles inside as well as the summer tires from my cars. This is because I learned the hard way with two sets of tires on my Mustang Cobra that had their grip go to pretty much worthless despite not having many miles on them and despite being parked through the winter.

I never drive any of my sports cars in the snow/rain and it never gets cold enough where I live to matter, so I only run summer performance tires on my cars. I don't drive (haven't driven) my cars enough to have to change tires often, so don't have a good basis of comparison but I am very satisfied w/the Michelin Pilot Super Sports on my 335i, which I will swap for Pilot 4s's when the time comes. I'm running Yokohama's on my MR2 and Conti Extreme Contact DWS on my MB ML350 which also perform well for those cars. Unfortunately, my 2000 C4 Cab came w/aftermarket 19's with Nexen N3000 tires on them. The performance of this combo is awful due to the heavy wheels and harsh ride from the low profile tires. Planning to switch to OEM Carrera 18's (when I can find a set in satisfactory condition for an "acceptable" price) and will not hesitate to immediately put Michelin Pilot 4S's on them if/when I get them.

“Planning to switch to OEM Carrera 18's (when I can find a set in satisfactory condition for an "acceptable" price) and will not hesitate to immediately put Michelin Pilot 4S's on them if/when I get them.” sgt1372 - Seen several sets on RL recently, in decent shape and for less than the cost of the PS4S...so great news for you!

I typically drive on summers anywhere over 7C (45F) and sometimes below. They're fine in colder temps as long you understand that performance will be degraded, especially if raining. Just warm them up before any spirited driving and I think you will be fine. I've had PS2, PSS and PS4S. I was surprised so many people were still running PS2's on porsches considering the performance gap between PS2 and PS4S (even PSS) until I realized the limited tire selection we have. I would love to try contis, but it looks like it will be PS4S again.

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I've been looking but haven't seen anything that I want to take the bite on yet.

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Michelins in almost all models related to 996/986 chassis work phenomenal , It does come down cost. I don't daily drive the Targa, so my time behind the wheel I usually try to get the most out of the chassis. From PS2's, PS4, 4S, SuperSports, AS2/3/3S on most cars are hard to beat overall. I use the Premier A/S LTS's on my Tacoma, and they are huge advantage over Original Toyo's. I used and have a set of Pilot Sport Cup 2's , great DE tires, not A/X though, needs heat in Tire for that, 20 minutes at Mid Ohio session are a consistent feel. Mike

I just went ahead and bought the Michelin Pilot Sport 4S. I think I'd be second guessing what I'm leaving on the table if I tried the Sumitomos. Plus, I just want to try the legend of the Michelins to see how they compare to the previous lackluster Bridgestone and Kumhos I've had on my 997 and 996. Thanks everyone for your input and I'll let you know what I think after install. Right now, my car is very crashy in the rear after Feal coilover install, and I suspect the 4 year old and worn rears are mostly to blame. It wasn't great before the coilover install, but even still, the fronts which aren't as worn don't have the same harshness to them. I'm hoping for a transformation in grip and comfort when these new tires are installed.

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What size did you order?

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I ordered the default size for my car based upon Discount Tire's website. Front: 225 /40 R18 92Y Rear: 265 /35 R18 97Y

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You made a great choice. I'm not sure about providing more comfort but the Michelin's certainly provide excellent grip.

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This has not been my experience. My cars endure cold PA winters in an unheated garage and while sure the tires lose grip over time, I don't find any steep drop in performance after a long and cold winter. My garage is unheated but it is attached and insulated so perhaps it does not get cold enough to noticeably affect performance.

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Thanks! When I say comfort, I mean more comfort than my almost completely worn Kumhos that feel like bricks right now. Definitely not expecting Lexus comfort, but I do hope they reduce the crashiness of the rear.

Michelin Pilot Sport 4S getting installed tomorrow (Friday) afternoon. I'll report back on my findings.

A little late to the game here, but also check out the General G-MAX RS tires. Same price point as Sumitomo, but better quality. Kelly Moss recommended them to me as a good daily driver tire -- really good in the rain, but deteriorate relatively quickly under track driving.

Hi Guys, here is my fresh experience with 285/30ZR-18 SUMITOMO HTR Z5 XL I had installed on the rear yesterday. Up front, I know my front tires are not the best anymore either and I had planed to get them replaced soon too. Not sure , why I thought they were "fresher" than they actually are. I am getting old I guess. Tires were delivered from Tire Rack to top rated Installer nearby in Orange County and installed yesterday afternoon. I picked up the car and got on the on-ramp , which to my surprise ended with a new Targa right next to me. Needless to say, the Idiot in me could not hold back, we got up to 75-80 before he finally moved on. At that point I "attempted" a lane change and the next 3 seconds made me glad I went to the bathroom before leaving. I really first thought, I am about to lose a rear wheel . Stopped , nothing visually wrong, got home, checked the tire pressure ( was a bit lower then I usually have it) and checked all the torque - Nothing. So I thought, well, they may need some careful break-in , but after a couple more miles I turned around and went back to the Tire place. They checked everything and said , well you need new fronts too , to which I replied , why is it with the old ones on the rear the Car drove like a dream and new it scares the hell out me just trying to change lanes at 50+miles on the freeway. No clear answer. This morning I called my Indie, stopped by and he looked at it and we compared the side movement of the tires between an older Sumi III on his Dad's 4s 996 vs mine and there is a clear difference. I then asked him if he can drive it as I may over-exaggerating perhaps. I told him to watch out for fast pace lane change. He came back after only 5 minutes and told me, that there is no way I can convince him to get on the FWY. He can feel the entire back of the car moving with speeds around 45mph already . His words- This is dangerous . I guess i am a braver soul after all.I got home, very carefully and contacted Tire Rack explaining the situation, Girl on the phone proceeds to tell me it's my fault as I only had the rear replaced and you should never mismatch tires/brands and they would not take them back. After multiple back and forwards she send me to an expert and I explained the whole thing again. His immediate reaction, "so you want to return them, let me get you to the right person". Not sure why the change so fast, but I agreed with them to have the Sumi's picked up at my House , once the new Pirelli P Zeros ordered thru them ( all 4) have been mounted. I know this was a lot to read, but I seldom get startled like this. This really scared the heck out of me.

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Perhaps one of the new Sumi's is defective? What brand of tires are on the front? Even with old tires on the front (and mismatched tires front to rear) the car should not handle this badly...

Pirelly P Zeros in the front. It is believed by my Indie and myself that the sidewalls are somehow too soft . No matter what tires in the front , this is not normal.

The Z5 is not a replacement for the III. It's more like a replacement for the old II, more of an UHP than the Max Performance. Needed new and went with Conti ExtremeContact Sports after several good sets of IIIs. Would have bought the Sumis again if they were available - were a great tire for the price. But that is over. Worried that lots of owners are thinking the 5 is a replacement.

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I agree with DreamCarrera. I've had my Z5s for nearly a year (I think I randomly got them the second day the stock 18" size was available to order at my local shop) and a couple thousand miles and they have been nothing but great. Speeds well into the triple digits, heavy rain, freeways in various states of repair, etc.....and they have been nothing short of rock solid. Grippy, quiet, all the positives you can throw at a tire.

I put my thoughts on the tires in another thread, but for posterity's sake, I'll note here that the tires are great and if you are thinking about them, you should buy them.

I’ve had a couple sets of the Sumi III’s and like them. Sort of related, I’ve bought tires from Tire Rack for well over 30 years. Two years ago I replaced the much loved Toyo’s on my old Miata with Hancook Ventus, all 4. While performance was fine they were the noisiest tires I’ve ever owned, by far. It was like I had snow tires on. I contacted Tire Rack but since there was nothing really wrong they wouldn’t do anything. Doubt I had even 30 miles on them. I was very willing to take a bath on them but they weren’t interested in working with me. I realize it was my fault, but it left a bad taste in my mouth.

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Which ones? There are several types discussed in this thread.

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I've been considering the Sumi Z5s for my 996 but am a bit hesitant now as I'm reading more and more negative experiences with them. I've tried the HTR ZIIIs on my 996 in the past and thought they had respectable performance for the price.

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Exactly where I was this week. My 996 does hard duty in the NC mountains several times each year. The Sumis were fine, not great. They also wore fast and got loud. For the price it was a good compromise. But I can't run anything less in terms of grip and road feel. I'm not going to try and save 2-300 bucks on tires if I'm not sure - and there's enough anecdotal and testing info out there to say the Z5 is not as stiff. I went with Conti ExtremeContact Sports instead of the Z5. I know the Contis are good tires, competitive with Pirelli and Michelin. Not right or wrong, just my opinion - and my cash.

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See post #35 above. I'm now leaning towards these Continentals as well. I thought the Sumi IIIs offered respectable performance for the price but I would not want to drop below this performance level (which apparently the Z5s do) for a 911. If I drove my 996 more I'd spring for the Michelins.

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Michelin PS4.