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YOUR RESEARCHLooks like it died
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cylinder
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Reported cause · Original poster
I must make an amendment to my original statement, as it was not the piston that was bad it was the cylinder.
Leading evidence: 'cylinder' (1 discussions report identifying this cause; no attributable repair resolution). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'cylinder' (1 discussions; 1 report identifying it and 0 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Inspect intake' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
Pluss once installed the "AOS' will never need to change again, and the Flow Regulator can be changed in minutes with minimal cost.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
I picked up my 3.2 which had 100,000 miles and a recently installed IMS from LN on it for around $3,000 shipped to my house.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
Why don't you wait until you product is properly field tested before pushing it on everyone.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
the shop used a borescope, and found that there were flakes in the cylinder, and it had no compression.
Run 3.2 intake manifold and a cobbled together exhaust)
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Suggestion
I did it the other way for a while (running 3.2 intake manifold and a cobbled together exhaust) but it creates more headaches so drill and tap the holes kn the front end and your life is a lot easier.
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69 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
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Outcome without a verified action link
It was a $130 bearing and as an experiment it worked to prove that it was not a viable option.
Got my Porsche back from a shop after it needed some work done to it, drove really well, but I was hearing a whistling noise and decided to take it back. ruled to be a bad AOS, and on the way home (I live less than 5 miles from the shop) the engine stopped. I towed the car to the shop and it started up there, but it was very smokey and rough. The shop did a compression test and there's no compression out of that cylinder and the piston was beat. Suggested to get a new engine from past experience. I trust the shop and they are reputable, but I don't think it would hurt to get some second opinions, as I like the car but can't afford a new motor. Has anyone else had this experience? the car was able to startup again, which made me hopeful that its not multiple failures, and could possibly be fixable, but I'm unsure if its worth risking the expense of having the engine apart only to find out there is more extensive damage. I appreciate any advice or suggestions.
They did a compression test and they could tell "the piston was beat" ? Definitely wouldn't hurt to get some second opinions, but who are you going to get them from? Opinions are only as good as who you get them from, so it sounds like you're in a bit of a pickle... Is the car still at the shop or did you have it towed home?
I'm sorry this happened to you,
I know you were interested in the UAOS when I was developing it, and I sent you a PM when it was for sale, but you hadn't got around to buying one. It would have saved your engine..
"another one bits the dust"
Get another opinion before you do anything.
if the other shop confirms the diagnosis then you have to make the decision whether to sell as a roller or rebuild.
If in fact your engine is roached, and that is not yet certain, If it was my car and I did not want to sell it as a roller I would be looking into installing either a GM LS3 V8, or a Subaru SVX engine. Check out YouTube videos demonstrating how this is done, and the final results are amazing in terms of weight savings, reliability and power. Something else for you to consider, you do have options.
There are some options here. Which cylinder? Did they borescope the cylinder in question? How did they determine "the piston was beat"? Did they pull all the spark plugs and do a compression test on all 6 cylinders? Did they inspect the intake for excessive oil? Did the AOS completely fail and hydrolock (flood the engine with oil) the engine? There is more, much more, to this story.....
I agree, to many unknowns... don't write off the motor yet.
I'd get the car out of that shop and step back, think about what you're willing to spend to figure it out. I thought I blew my motor and it was just a failed AOS and I git through it with the help of many here.
Also, I have a solid motor with under 60K miles that I'll be selling when my FSI build is done later in the year.
I would get a second opinion just to be certain.
At least get more details from the original shop on what they say is wrong.
"Piston is beat" makes me wonder if they are guessing based on experience, or if they bore scoped that cylinder and see evidence that the piston and valve have collided.
If you can't afford repairs, then most likely your only option is to sell it as a roller.
Expect to get $4,000-$7,000.
Another shop's advice couldn't hurt, so I agree with others on here. When you say you can't afford a new engine, in order to help with what options you do have, it would be helpful to know what you realistically can afford.
For all we know you could have a valve hung open by a busted spring. We don't know if the entire engine is failed or what the failure mode is in this case. This could be a lot less expensive to repair than a full engine rebuild or it may require a full rebuild. Too much uncertainty at this point to be writing everything off. However if you want to dump the car, $5-$7k is a good dump price.
I wouldn't mind buying an UAOS x2 though for my two cars and install them soon, just since I don't really trust the AOS's and both cars are at 80k miles.
The UAOS has an Accumulator in series between the Vortex and the Flow Regulator. The Accumulator captures excess oil that is not separated in the Vortex.
A dangerous oil amount of oil in any particular cylinder is about 60cc. Less than that it will just smoke and push oil out the exhaust valve, more than 60cc the engine will just stop and usually no damage, but if the amount is very near 60cc damage will occur to pistons, rods, cylinders due to dynamic/hydrolic forces.
The Accumulator in the UAOS has an infra-red sensor that sets off a warning at accumulation level of 117cc, it can hold more oil than that without allowing any to enter the engine giving the operator time to intervene and drain the accumulation or stop driving. It is not advisable to keep driving after the warning has set off.
So unless you ignor the warning and just keep driving, it will save your engine.
Pluss once installed the "AOS' will never need to change again, and the Flow Regulator can be changed in minutes with minimal cost.
I expressed my condolences, but I can't save them all. The OP showed interest in the UAOS and I reached out to him in a PM to let him know they are available.The failure could have even happened while he was waiting the 4-6 weeks for delivery, then I would have even felt worse. For my own good, I need to stop caring so much, thanks for reminding me..
Why don't you wait until you product is properly field tested before pushing it on everyone. At this point, you have an untested prototype with any statistically insignificant track record.
To the OP: As others have said, figure out what actually is broken/went wrong. The M96 is not that expensive to rebuild, there are factory short blocks available now for resonable price. Find a good shop(which will give you a warranty) and have them rebuild to original spec. This will be the most durable, don't get fooled by the aftermarket fear mongers with upgraded this or that.
Yes, Raby told me to let SSF deal with it. He even talked to them on behalf of the UAOS, and they want it, but the Covid -19 has put a kink in the talks.
But even though SSF deals with the IMSS, Raby still gets emotionally involved in discussions, it's hard not to.
The design principal is solid.
I'm not pushing it on you, you are free not to buy it..
I talked to the shop just now, and wrote down what they found was wrong. I must make an amendment to my original statement, as it was not the piston that was bad it was the cylinder. the shop used a borescope, and found that there were flakes in the cylinder, and it had no compression. this could be repaired or replaced but in either case it's out of my price range, the reality of the situation is that I don't have the funds for that job. I apologize if I'm being vague, I don't know the exact questions to ask as this is all a bit new to me. If there are any questions I should ask let me know..
I would like to thank all of you guys for the help and support, it really does mean a lot to me especially. Seeing the mention of the metal flakes, any sort of repair is out of my budget, and I will probably just start working on the ad. I'll be at the shop tomorrow, so if there are any questions I'll ask. Also if anyone has any recommendations for shops in the Long Island area shoot me a PM. As sad as it is for me to lose the car in a non-running state it's better that it's leaving with a bad motor as opposed to an accident.
My question was to the op's engine and how you know your UAOS could have 'saved' his motor? He can't even articulate his mechanics findings, and you've already diagnosed problem and solution. 🤔
I'd never bolt your 3d printed part on my engine, unless it was backed up by years of testing. I work in design/development. Your engineering is lacking.....
I�ve been around automotive testing. No one can afford the test results you are asking for but OEMs. If you want to pay, I will write up the testing protocol and give you a dollar amount. You can Paypal me $1000 as good faith towards my hours writing the plan, non refundable.
You will need to budget buying cars, engine teardown before and after, tires, fuel, drivers, oil analysis, etc.
I love how members on this board expect that level of testing for a few dollars profit on parts. You can�t make demands unless you are willing to write the checks.
It's quite simple if you know of the damage that can be done from hydrolock caused by a failing AOS. 1+1+1=3 , the Op reported a whistling sound, the reputable shop diagnosed as a failing AOS. 5miles later the engine stopped, then the diagnosis is cylinder damage... if 1+1+1 = was said to equal 4, I would have my doubts..but in this case , it adds up perfectly.
I have spent 45 years in the industry and have been obsessed with failure analysis, as a curse, it doesn't pay as well as design/development, but it also gives me insight into why the chain reaction effects things the way it does.
In this case, a small tear in a rubber diaphragm cause a "catastrophic failure" .. And this isn't the only time it has occurred.!!!
Feel free to keep using the Factory design and NOT to buy this product or believe in it's design, even if I were to make the "3D printed part" by injection molding or CNC'd from billet Aluminum at 5 times the cost....
The 996 is the bottom of the barrel in the 911 world. That spot used to belong to the mid year (1975-1977 2.7L) cars. But now, we occupy that spot. The problem is, our cars cost as much to fix and maintain as the newer cars.
I'm all for people finding creative solutions to fix known issues. Anything we can do to prolong our engine life and reduce maintenance costs is a win! I bet if I look back in old posts Raby got the same level of grief when working on his IMS bearing solution.
I was going to stay out of this thread, primarily because I saw this coming and didn't want to add more to the depression. OP, I'm sorry for the damage to your engine. I hate to say it but, I could tell you were in over your head from the beginning. These engines need very close monitoring and attention. The slightest hiccup, if not caught quickly, will lead to very serious damage. I hope you are able to move on with the least amount of mental and financial pain. Probably the best way to do that, would be to have the engine thoroughly inspected to confirm the extent of the damage. From there you need a plan. Expecting the worst, you will probably end up selling it as a roller. The good news, if this ends up being the case, is that there are plenty of people here that would take it off your hands.
Then you would do well to buy basic, cheap, reliable transportation and get your life back in order. If you decide to get another 911, you will want to save your money and do your homework before jumping into the next one. Best of luck.
Now what really brought me here are the ******** that think they know what they are talking about, but really don't. I give you example #1. I've seen enough of this guy to get a good feel for his MO. Fly in, **** on other's ideas, and offer non-constructive criticism. One thing I do give him credit for, is actually working on his own stuff. But it is always done in the cheapest possible way. How did that $20 IMS bearing idea work out?
OK - here's another guy that's quick with the "I'm the smarted guy here" feedback. You don't know Skip. You don't know his background and experience. If you did, you wouldn't being flying off with your unsubstantiated assertion that there is anything lacking in the creation and development of his product.
Furthermore, I get the impression you have little to no actual wrenching experience. Instead you just throw money at your problems to make them go away. Not that there's anything wrong with that - but when you start dumping on someone that is doing something to support the community, I'm going to call you out on it.
We've got a bunch of arm chair experts here. Knowing who they are sure helps to filter out the noise. My filter works well and I normally just ignore. This time, I needed to speak up.
Carry on.
It was a $130 bearing and as an experiment it worked to prove that it was not a viable option. Can't say too many people here tried anything like this AND THEN honestly posted the results. Also, this was an experiment for myself and for the gearhead community. You know, those who actually BUILD things. Never had intentions of selling anything EVER. All my build posts are for others to use in the future (good or bad doesn't matter, I show the results regardless of ego). All, except for a very few, just buy parts from catalogs and slap them on you cars. Anyone with enough money can do that. I always look for alternative solutions for any situation and in many occasion worked really well and then sometimes it doesn't. The intermediate bearing was one that didn't work out as planed but at least I've tried.
Also, I wasn't asking for the same R&D and testing regiment as the factory for the oil separator, not even close. At a minimum, I would have put it in my car and then go for a week long road trip around the country clocking as much mileage as possible. Would have expected more than just going from prototype to using clients as test subjects. The liability when something goes wrong on someone else's engine is not something I want to take on. One should have enough business insurance to cover this and I'm not convinced that the builder of the separator does.
Yes - I appreciate your ingenuity and creativity. Had your IMS bearing actually worked out, it would have been a big deal. Can't fault you for trying.
Regarding the testing of the UAOS - I don't think you know all of the details. I doubt any of us do. One thing is for certain, the creator tested it on his vehicle for several months. He also has the backing of one of the preeminent 996 experts. Those willing to be a part of the "experiment" go in with their eyes open. It's a simple choice: either give it a shot, or don't.
Skepticism is good, but pissing in other's Wheaties is not a good way to go through life.
Sorry that having it sit isn't an option. Looks like you had the car for over a year? Well can you confirm the engine is toast before you sell it as a roller? If the engine is repairable vs toast, that will make a difference in what you can sell it for, no?
Remember too, that the UAOS was originally a DYI idea, for people to build and try themselves (zero revenue to inventor), similar to your IMS experiment Imo000?. It only turned into a package product when people asked for it to save them the trouble finding and assembling the components and fittings...driven by demand and efforts to help the community, at minimal, if any personal profit.
Thanks jim010 for bring this back to topic.
OP why not try and source a good used boxster engine? Maybe a nice cheap 3.2 - take a power cut and save your engine until you can afford to rebuild it?
Oh and in Porschetech3 we trust
when the AUD vs USD comes back a bit the UAOS is on my wish list!
Best of luck with whatever road you choose.
Not that it makes you feel any better but lots of us here have been in the same predicament. I bought a 77 911 C3 in 2000. The majority of the experience sucked but I learned a lot from it. Wasted a lot of money.
Big picture, a small bump in the road. Learn and proceed forward.
Yes that's a good idea, I've heard there's not too much difference in power when you get the 3.4 intake and exhaust system bolted onto the 3.2, be interesting to know for people at the lower end of affordability, might be another option before looking at the roller option, 3.2 boxster engines are a lot cheaper!! Same fit just change the intake / exhaust etc I bet you would only be down like 20/30hp
It makes me sad seeing these types of threads. These cars are not for most people. They can get expensive quickly. Bank accounts can be cleaned out. They need to be thought of as $35K cars. They really are, and it would also prevent people who shouldn't be buying them from buying them.
I have a 3.2 in a 996. Just a word to the wise; your best bet is to use the 996 intake runners and the like. In order to do that you need to drill 4 holes on each side plus 5 on each side for the exhaust hangers. I did it the other way for a while (running 3.2 intake manifold and a cobbled together exhaust) but it creates more headaches so drill and tap the holes kn the front end and your life is a lot easier.
2 other notes; the car runs fine even without a tune and it�s really pretty quick. And yes 3.2 engine tend to be 1/2 the cost of 3.4. I picked up my 3.2 which had 100,000 miles and a recently installed IMS from LN on it for around $3,000 shipped to my house. A comparable 3.4 at the time was around $6,500-7,000. I thought this would be a temporary solution but honestly the longer I have it the more content I am with it.
I appreciate the condolences Scott, all in all, I was in over my head from the start, but I've learned a lot, and really enjoyed the experience. I'm working on the listing as we speak, I'm quite sure that there is significant damage with the engine due to the presence of metal flakes, but I can't really tell without getting it opened up. As for my next 911, hopefully I get back into it sooner than later, however, I will definitely do more research on the car first.
yep, I thoroughly enjoyed the car and the experience, these things happen. I chose to go down this path and while I certainly made some mistakes, I don't regret it. all good things come to an end. At this point my focus is on moving on to something else and getting rid of the car.
That is true, arranging the shipping on that car would be interesting, but at the current price it could be worth it, we will just have to wait and see.
i think you should start a new thread to bring attention to your roller listed on pcarmarket. Might get some people interested who haven't followed this thread. Just a thought.
All about rolling the dice.
I bought mine 4 years ago for $17k, put about $5k more into it (doing you know what,) and so far everything has been peachy.
Of course now that I have posted this I'll probably experience a massive failure tomorrow...
Bill If you ended up winning the car, that would be fun, nice to see the car at some events! Up to you at the end of the day, this car needs a motor at the end of the day, and I'm not in the business of pressuring people into buying anything.
