Gundo vs Fister

So I was thinking about doing the Gundo hack this weekend. Seems pretty straightforward from what I can tell, a little labor and a little welding. Now Im hearing more about the Fister exhaust. Can someone explain the difference in the two? Is it worth paying for the Fister versus doing the Gundo myself?

Same thing. Use proper sized tubing depending on your sound needs.

What size do they generally use?

basically I don't want to lose any performance but would like a bit more sound

1.5" if you want conservative sounding or 2" + if you want a more pronounced sound.

will either affect performance

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no

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Completely different thing. One goes from the muffler (you'll see where) to the nearest tube (Gundo). The other goes between tubes (Fister). I've tried both - one right after the other. Gundo - not much change at all that I could hear (or any of the others in the race shop that day). Fister - much improved....bigger, richer, deeper sound. Great for street... not enough for track to hear what you're doing. But for a street car - Fister is the way to go.

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Yeah I was going to go between the tubes. What is the diameter of the factory inlet/ outlet tubes? I was thinking of using a tube roughly 70% the size to run between them. Also, Ive never taken the mufflers off, I have a lift, can I drop the mufflers with the rear bumper still on?

There are old and new versions of at least one hack. The one you want to do involves using a section of pipe to connect the inlet pipe to the outlet pipe. The one you do NOT want to do involves cutting another hole in the muffler and plumbing that up to the outlet pipe. YES: NO!

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If you go less than 2", the result will be quieter and higher pitched - go with 2". Yes. I removed and replaced the mufflers several times on Rhino ramps with the bumper cover on.

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Yes and no. IIRC, Gundo started off as a PSE style mod but then the term got used interchangeably with the Fister style mod and sorta just stuck. If you search all the Gundo posts, it's half and half. Personally I group Gundo/Fister to be same(pipe welded between input and output stock pipes. While I reference the other mod that taps into the end cap as PSE style mod. Dunno who created the original term "Gundo" so it would be hard to say without original guy correcting everyone and enforcing the usage of it IMO.

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+996 on the 2" pipe

Just for grins, I tracked down the original post by Gundo describing the hack back in October 2007... https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...-waste-of.html Interestingly, most of the thread is people bitching that it's a pathetic hack job, it's a "poor man's PSE," and that you should be willing to pay for the PSE retrofit unless you're a heathen. Apparently, some things never change! Unfortunately, Gundo's pictures, like most links from 2007, are gone. In Nov. of 2009, Gundo quit using the Gundo hack...so stuff that in your pipe and smoke it. " And even in my situation, i've since moved on from the "gundo" hacked mufflers to a gorgeous set of AWE mufflers that are lighter still and have a completely different, much more baritone sound. " But in mid 2010, Gundo comes to his senses! " Right now I'm running AWE cans as a test, and I don't really like them. Will be moving back to hacked cans as soon as I can find some to mess with. "

So based on this thread, the Porsche PSE style exhaust mod is crap and the Fister is the only way to go? Sure seem to be a lot of satisfied PSE owners on here, so I wonder.

I'm a fan of Fisters and have them on my 993 and 996. With the stock 996 cans, Darin only does one level of modification. I believe the "hack" modification is similar. However, if you send him a set of B&B's, GHL's, etc. he can modify them as his Stage II or Stage III, which he doesn't (or can't) do with a stock 996 can. I have a set of GHL's on my 996 that Darin modified to Stage III and they are amazing. Just another option as the standard 996 muffler mod is kind of mild sounding. Cheers.

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Yup, that's pretty much it. Feel free to search around and read the posts from the folks who did the other mod - they say stuff like "it still isn't loud enough" and "wish I'd done something else."

I still don't get it. Which is louder: A) Connecting the in/out pipes with 2" section OR B) running a banana shaped pipe from the unused hole on the muffler to the middle pipe? Don't answer with Fister or Gundo... LOL. A... or B ? I am doing a hack soon, I prefer the louder mod. A.... or B ?

OPTION A: .

Option B:

The louder one is..... A .... or B .... ?

Option A aka Fister The reason why option B isn't louder is that some peeps don't realize that the real PSE mufflers have a slightly different internal construction than the standard mufflers so therefore, you're not going to yield the same results with the same pipe routing setup as the OEM PSE originals.

Definitely option A

Thanks. Then A is getting done shortly. 2" pipe. Sorry, but I got a headache over Fister vs. Gundo vs. PSE hack... blah blah blah, yadda yadda yadda. Option A it is.

The picture in post #20 is in Darin Fister's shop. He stopped doing that type of mod and started doing only the mod in post #19. Post 20 "B" mod made no change in the 3.4 muffler sound but it did give 3.6ltr cans a little more base. I have the post 20 mod on my 2003 3.6 Cab and they are fine for us. Wife wouldn't ride any distance with the top down when we had "A". So I went back to "B". Most folks with coupes seem to love "A".

I'm very conservative when it comes to mods. Especially since I'm trying to maintain my 40th Anniversary as stock as possible. Last year, after 10 years of ownership since new, I decided to give the Fister mod a try. And after a year of enjoying the mod all I can say is that I'm extremely happy with the mod. The sound is exactly what I was looking for. Less conservative without being douchey is the way I would describe the sound. My experience dealing with Darin was very professional and customer service oriented. Very satisfied customer!...

Fister Exhaust Note When Chillin' Long time lurker, first time poster. I'm pretty much sold on a Fister exhaust for my 996. Reached out to Darin and he was as responsive/cool as advertised (seemingly, by everyone, everywhere). A bonus is I live close and can get to him in under an hour. My only question is what the exhaust will sound like when I pull out of my garage and drive the 10 or so blocks out of my neighborhood to more open roads, or when I'm driving through our small local towns (e.g., Palo Alto, Los Altos, San Carlos, in case anyone from the Bay Area is reading). I've listened to Fister's vid. and all the YT vids, love the sound at idle and under hard acceleration. My question is how it sounds at 2.5k to maybe 4k rpm's. I could only find one drive-by video through a residential area but the driver was pinning it (sounded sweet, but not helpful to my issue). I've got a nice bluetooth setup and can have perfect-clarity phone calls with my current stock mufflers, will I still be able to use my phone when just cruising around? I've read that it sounds "mellow", "how a Porsche should sound" and one poster even characterized the note as "stock" when driving gently at lower revs. If this is generally true, it strikes me as fairly stealthy and checks all my boxes. I want the sound but I want it for me, not to impress. I'd also like to avoid cultivating a boy racer image amongst my neighbors when I leave for work early in the morning. Or worse, look even more like a 49 year-old dude in the throws of a mid-life crisis. Anyone care to throw a little verbiage at me re: this specific issue? Thx in advance!

Yes the fister is fairly mellow when you're not hard on the throttle and sounds awsome at WOT. You wanta talk about mid life crisis, i leased my dad a Maserati Ghibli for his birthday few months back and that thing is twice as loud when in sport mode and he refuses to take it off sport mode day or night.

Just relate the accelerator pedal to a volume control, under light acceleration is mellow, as you push harder the volume goes up.

It has a nice little burble to it but it is quiet when you're not in it. After having many aftermarket exhausts on my other cars that wake up the neighborhood and drone when in low gears, this exhaust combination is perfect (I have the fister). Its quiet enough that I don't notice it on the highway when I want to talk on my hands free or have a meaningful conversation with someone, but when you crack the window and hit the back roads its louder then your mom's Camry

Has anybody done both the Gundo and the PSE mod on the same muffler? How would that sound?

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Good that's what I was hoping. I'm doing it.

No for real I did it. Took them off the other night and pick them up today after work. I'll let you all know if it's "Rich Mahogany" or not. I'm thinking it will be spot on or at least close. I'll stop thread hacking and start my own about this later tonight.

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Can't wait to see what it sounds like! And of course..

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Not sure how much difference it would make. Last year my friend Mick and I cut open a muffler that was rattling. I don't recall exactly -- I've got pictures around here someplace -- but the flow in the 996 muffler looks something like the path shown in red in the attached picture. The Gundo modification is shown in blue, with the Fister in yellow. As the picture shows, Gundo leaves much of the muffler's internal path unchanged, while the Fister bypasses most of it. I guess the combined Gundo/Fister mods would provide a shorter path for the portion of exhaust gas that couldn't pass through the Fister bypass, but I'd think the primary determinant of sound would be the diameter of the Fister bypass pipe -- bigger diameter = louder muffler. Then again, I'm not an engineer, so I could be entirely wrong.

wonder if someone ever tried the fister mod with a controlled valve. can go with a 2"/2.5"/3" pipe, so it will be loud but can be shot off.

Looking forward to the video...

subscribed

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Porsche did that, they called it PSE.

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The Gundo hack is basically a PSE without the solenoid valve to open/close the partial bypass of a muffler chamber Fister is a true bypass, pre-muffler and is louder by far. Just did the "Gundo" on my '04 cab and it's absolutely fantastic. "Fister" would be too loud for my wife to ride around without complaint. On a coupe the Fister would probably be a great bet for passenger compartment volume and Gundo would probably be too quiet without leaving the windows open to hear the music of your flat 6. My nephew is a great welder and did this for me.

Where can I buy the gundo kit from??

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Not aware of anyone selling a kit, although you may be able to find something out there. Most of us just bring either the car or the mufflers to a reputable exhaust shop and have the PSE or Gundo mod (or both simultaneously) executed by a pipe welding pro.