Impulse purchase now being inspected and serviced at OPC

Impulse got the better of me when I went to view this car so now I am documenting what happens next and hopefully I will learn some lessons from this. So far it's just been on the ramp at the centre and I'm waiting to hear back about a few issues seen underneath. The only thing I have noticed is a 'failure indicator' intermittent problem where the oil pressure gauge goes to zero. Bit of oil evident at the back Discs may need attention soon - or maybe just some hard braking... Small oil leak here On the ramp.

I hate to burst your balloon but there is much more than a small oil leak on that car. Look at the oil pan. It is covered in oil. I hope for your sake that it is a spray pattern that I am seeing coming from the oil leak which you are seeing.

Definitely a fair bit of oil as Hurdigurdiman mentioned. Also lots of corrosion but I guess that's to be expected from the salt on UK roads. Some more details on the car might assist with potential problem diagnosis. Hopefully they are all minor issues and you get it sorted.

Turns out it is not oil but coolant weeping from the pipes going into the engine. Recommended to replace which is an engine out job. Is there anything else I should have done as preventative maintenance at the same time? Some details of the car - 2002 Carrera 2 Targa - 63,000 miles 3 previous owners, full OPC service history. Last major service @60k miles.

Well it's not great that it's an engine out job this early after you've bought it but at least you'll know it's sorted when you get it back. Air oil separator is a big job when the engines in place that would be my recommendation. It's not an overly expensive part but worth it if you dont have records of it being replaced. As well as the coolant tank, again not an expensive part but an expensive job with the engine in place. Also spark plugs and tubes as it's easier with the engine out.

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Congrats on the purchase though, auto or manual?

Manual. Looks like some big bills will be coming my way. Including a new exhaust!

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Pleanty of aftermarket options for exhaust with money, weight savings, performance and sound

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With engine already out, good time to check/repair/replace: AOS, RMS, IMSB, clutch, coils/plugs, WP/tank/t-stat/hoses, chain tensioners and so much more......get that wallet ready for this POST-purchase inspection P.S. Hope the price you paid was "low" enough to make the added $$$ worth it

All good suggestions re AOS, IMSB, RMS, etc. Intermittent oil pressure going to zero sounds like a oil pressure sender that needs replacing. It's also not a bad idea to replace the oil pressure relief valve piston and spring, as they go bad over time and are cheap to replace. As someone mentioned, the coolant reservoir tank will get brittle over time, eventually developing leaks. Look for whitish residue on the left-hand (as you face the rear of the car) exhaust tip. I hadn't thought you would need to do anything with the spark plug tubes on a 2002 996 ... I could be wrong, but I thought the Mk 2 redesign involved metal tubes (unlike the plastic tubes on my Mk 1) that do not require replacement. That said, you'll want to check your service records regarding coils and plugs.

^ Yes, I was hoping I'd get to the end and see that the ONLY problem was the pressure sender - but obviously that's no longer the primary concern...

Keep in mind that a lot of the stuff being recommended are things that you won't have to pay to do later , thus saving you money in the long run. If you deal with all of the stuff that is likely to break now, then you'll not have to spend more (probably much more) money in the future to fix them one-at-a-time. So, if you do end up spending $5,000 now, it likely means that you won't be spending $10,000 over the next 5 years to fix this stuff. It's not very hard to take a Porsche into the shop and run up a $1,000 bill fixing one problem. If it was a 100k+ miles car you bought for $14,000, I'd say fix only the stuff that must be fixed to keep the car running. But, since it is a lower miles car that you probably invested quite a bit more into, then do what these guys are suggesting and get one very comprehensive service done that will minimize running costs for quite a while to come.

Oh, and if you do swap out the IMS bearing, be certain to take pics of the old bearing during the replacement to document that it wasn't failing at the time of replacement. Keep the old bearing if you can. The current mindset on IMS bearing replacement is that buyers should be suspicious if an IMS bearing was changed, especially if done right before selling the car, because the swap may have been done in response to the discovery of metal shavings in the oil.

I had an engine out service within 3 months of buying my C2, though it was elective for a pin hole leak in the oil cooler line that the PPI missed. Nearly a year later I'm impressed with the reliability given the level of performance and age. Daily driver when it's not cold. GL getting yours back up & healthy.

Thanks all and sage advice. I have the health check from the OPC and I'm thinking about next steps. I had in mind that it would cost circa 2k to get into good condition but it seems the total will be way north of that. I am into the car for the equivalent of low $20s but as there are not many Targas about that seems a reasonable price. I did try a couple of other cars including a low-mileage mk1 cab. I guess I need to prioritise the jobs now but it seems the engine out items should take priority. Overall total from OPC is 10k although I'm not sure if that is for each item separately and whether labor costs would be reduced if doing it all at the same time. Luckily one of the items is 'badges on centre caps loose' - I think I can DIY that one

Hell you could DIY everything yourself when the engine is on the deck. That's if your mechanic will give you the chance. Drop him a couple of hundred in his back pocket and he might just let you do it yourself. Or get him into the nearest pub and get him sloshed hahaha.

Be sure to align those cap badges properly with the valve stems if you DIY!

Low 20's, damn! I sure hope it turns out better then it looks...

Ask the OPC whether you can supply some or all of the parts yourself - if they don't have special pricing for PCGB members. I always use Design911 for most of my parts, and I'm at the other side of the world!! Use discount code 911UK09 to get 5% off your parts. They also do free shipping for bigger orders (sometimes).

Ok - so here's where I went wrong 1 - deciding it had to be a Targa - these are premium here - only 2 other manuals I could find in the same ballpark and one of them was wrapped. Plus this had aerokit and sports exhaust (sic) 2 - comparing to my recollection of how a 996 should feel from 15 years ago. 3 - no PPI 4 - last one I went to see - by the time I had decided to pull the trigger - it was sold. 5 - no PPI - at least I should have got the sticker price down! I'm having a second go tomorrow and setting it out as must, should and could (things to do next) then I will know what I have let myself in for. I can't help thinking that this is still the best of what I have looked at and every time I go out and see it on my drive I am filed with joy! Caveat emptor!

Lots of good info, I'm g​uessing a lot of that cost would possibly be a new OEM exhaust. Similar scenario almost happened to me, has a car PPI'd came back with 16k worth of work needing to be done with the majority of that cost was a new OEM exhaust. I walked away. However you could just supply an aftermarket exhaust if that's the case for you.

Yep - exhaust is about 1/3 of the cost - but the car just passed it's MOT test (annual roadworthiness) so it's good for another year. I will update tomorrow.

Post the full list of "things" they have recommended to fix. Most of it is most likely BS. You can drive INDEFINITELY with slowly seeping coolant and oil as long as you keep on adding the fluids. I doubt that your exhaust is damaged to the point where ALL of it has to be replaced.

I believe all 996's are $25-30K cars. If you buy one for that price you don't have to do anything. And if you buy one for less than that, by the time you fix everything you are at that price. I know there are people who get out for less, but there are also people who are in way more than that (my 996 ownership experience).

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Really depends on who's doing the fixing...

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Aftermarket or even good used components can be had for a lot less, its also a DIY if you're mechanically inclined.

Wow! $10k worth or work quoted by the same shop, after only 3k miles following a 60k service.... Now you know why the car was up for sale. Personally, I might be inclined to look around for another Indy shop. That said, you seem to have a great attitude and love for the car already. I sense a great outcome for you down the road... Best of luck! Looks like a winner of a 996! Targa w/aero and stick is a very, very rare combo!

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You can get a full aftermarket exhaust for under $2k. I'd use it as an excuse to improve the car's soundtrack http://www.design911.co.uk/fu/prod15...e-996-C2---C4/

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I have that package, minus the headers. Like it a lot. LOVE the sound!

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Cool - I'm loosely planning to DIY it this summer. Your 200-cell cats running well with O2 spacers, no problems I should be wary of? My research so far suggests it's a decent quality setup that sounds good. Thanks for anything you can provide, may even help OP.

Every old car I have in my garage could probably generate a $10k "to do" list. You just prioritize the jobs, DIY as much as you can (which saves not only labor, but also more than you'd think on parts) and live with the stuff that can wait. If you are actually going to drive the car, there will always be a "to do" list because stuff breaks and wears out. Low $20k's in the UK for a targa with relatively low miles is not overpaying for the car, even if it has some stuff that needs attention. Even if you take a top-dollar, pristine garage queen in for a thorough PPI, they'll find something wrong with it. There are always parts that are part way through their life cycle that could need to be replaced because someday it will fail. And as Kalash says, on an old car, you oftentimes just top off the fluids and live with some leaks, otherwise you'll always be chasing drops. Every car sitting in the museum downstairs from my office has a drip pan under it. EVERY car (and we have some really nice ones in there).

I have had a second inspection and opinion from a local Indy and the outcome seems much better. First of all is I do have a decent car, albeit that some maintenance items have been left longer than a long term owner would accept. I spent an hour at the Indy and they had the car up on the ramps and gave it a full test drive too. Interestingly neither of them agree on what are the priority items but they are not a million miles away. OPC must suggestions; Front Suspension overhaul Exhaust system Metal Coolant hoses replaced (engine out) Chain tensioner PAS crimps Non genuine battery replaced Badges on centre caps loose Indy must suggestions Brake overhaul (was advisory on OPC) Clutch replacement IMS bearing (LN only because clutch will be out) RMS seal and chain tensioner A/C not working Exhaust brackets (exhaust is ok) They weren't a million miles apart, what the Indy had as 'could' the OPC had as 'must' and vice versa. I had a long chat with the Indy and he said it depended on what I wanted to do long term with the car. I could probably drive it for 12 - 18 months with some minor work but if I want to keep it long term then I should look at the big items and some preventative maintenance. My gut feeling (and I have been wrong before) is that I am more aligned with the Indy - they picked up on the things I would have addressed in the car first and even let me know that the clutch could be on it's way out at 63K (too stiff and juddery) I want to keep the car for a number of years so I'm booking it in for about $5k worth of remedial action but then I should have a reliable and drivable car for years to come. The Indy also confirmed that I have the switchable sports exhaust system although there is no switch and the actators are stuck on loud! I'm fine with that. Thanks for all the advice - sure I am making the right decision. I had budgeted for some additional work - just not as much as I am finding but I am relieved that I haven't bought a turkey this far away from Xmas

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Tony, my Indy found on installation that the O2 sensor ports were in the wrong place, so they put bungs in and machined new ports in the correct location. No idea if the error was mine, by ordering the wrong exhaust, or Design911's. But it was cheap, and so was the fix, so I didn't mind. OP - glad you've found yourself a decent Indy to look after the car. My experience is that the OPC will hit you for everything under the sun that your car might possibly need to return to showroom condition. A good Indy will tell you what you need to keep driving and help you schedule stuff. A bad Indy will try to rip you off with stuff you don't need. I also bought my car on impulse without PPI, and found a bad Indy before I found a good one. Thankfully I didn't spend much at the first place ... and despite going against my better judgement and buying the car without a PPI I think I got a good 'un.

One man's opinion, but I don't care for the word 'xxxxx overhaul'. Things wear of course, and if some wear component(like control arm bushings) then they are replaced. But, it seems silly to remove and replace good working shocks. I would pin down the two shops and ask them specifically what they want to replace with their 'overhaul' comment. As for brakes, if the rotors are in spec, and the pads are worn, this is not an 'overhaul' this is just a brake job. I wonder if it's a matter of lexicon. Front brake pads are a $200 job, and can be done with simple tools in a an hour. A brake 'overhaul' to me is much more involved and could cost over $700 or more. I also don't get a new clutch at 63k miles. My car is coming up on 90k with orig clutch and it works fine. Of course, it could be that the prev owner didn't know how to drive a stick shift, but unless the clutch plate is slipping in third gear, I would just wait.

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Fully agree with you, even a brake overhaul can be done for a reasonable sum as a DIY with a little patience & effort. I use this, even though the articles are free on pelican (easier to use a book outside than my laptop). Thanks Jimmy & ditto - I bought mine after a spirited loop on the beltway. It was too smooth to pass up! Carfax history & overall condition sold me on the spot. Luckily my judgment was verified during the subsequent PPI. OP, Not sure what your technical ability is & apologies if already covered but: Indy must suggestions Brake overhaul (was advisory on OPC) - respect the input & get specifics on which parts are worse off (rotors, calipers, pads, brake lines?) Clutch replacement - just go for it, fits with the IMS & RMS IMS bearing (LN only because clutch will be out) RMS seal and chain tensioner - Def agree with this as it came up on both & can degrade the internals if compromised A/C not working - all about your preference Exhaust brackets (exhaust is ok) - might as well given low cost Good luck, this isn't as bad as I thought after first reading the thread.

Luke, mate OPC, like other dealer garages will provide quotes on the basis of returning the car to its original condition. "Non genuine battery replaced" is just bollocks - this is not late model BMW where it needs a special battery. With "A/C not working" you'll also want to see whether the condensers at the front of the car have been leaking (hint: remove the front bumper). A gas recharge will be a total waste if they were. You'll need to budget for a dryer if your A/C system has been exposed i.e. taking a condenser out. You might find locally focused recommendation at 911uk forum.

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I agree, It does sound less fatal and you'll be rewarded for the TLC you'll put in to it...Happy Motoring!

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I bought my car with a bit under 60k on it ... as part of the purchase it needed a new clutch AND a new flywheel. My guess would be that PO didn't have a clue how to drive a stick, but who knows? I do know of other 996 owners who have had to replace clutches at similar or lower mileage.

Thanks all for the advice. I'm not that handy with spanners but maybe this is the time to start again. Thirty odd years of sending cars to dealers for service has left me rusty although I did change the heater blower on an my Cayenne S. So I will confirm with the Indy and have the engine an brake work done, then get that workshop manual and start maintaining the DIY items myself.

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I fully agree - keeping my eye on the market and I'm more than happy with my purchase.

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Discs are corroded so it's a major job - I'm getting the Indy to detail the work. Interesting on the clutch as it doesn't bother me at the moment but maybe I just have strong legs! But some of the other work (RMS, IMS chain tensioner etc.) is good to combine with clutch replacement so maybe it's worth it overall as part of preventative maintenance.

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Thanks - and fully agree. I was considering to leave the A/C till later as I can always open the roof if it's that hot - definitely have some leaking so you have saved me a recharge. I'm on 911UK but only introduced myself so far. Cheers

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Good to get a detail of what gets replaced. as for the clutch, the best way to test, is to put the car in 4th gear, at about 1500RPM, then open the throttle fully, and accelerate. If the clutch slips, it will start around 3000 or so and you'll notice the revs increasing faster than the car. If it's a problem with pedal pressure, that could be hydraulic, or release bearing, or the springs on the pressure plate. Need to be investigated before tearing apart. But, plenty of cars are driven by people who ride the clutch and burn off the friction surface. I can make a clutch last 150k miles on almost any car.

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I tried that today and didn't get any slipping. Hard to tell if pedal pressure is high unless I go joy riding in a few other cars. I see quite a few new owners take the route of immediate clutch and IMS fix as preventative action so maybe that'a just recommended where the background is unknown. I'm booked in for next Monday but still choosing from the menu items. What price peace of mind eh?

There ya go. Have fun, and I completely understand about peace of mind(or piece of mind). That's what has kept my car in the garage most of this winter. I'm considering yanking the IMS again and just get it done so I don't have that nagging worry anymore. It's like a toothache that you want to just finally be rid of. Good luck.

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I did this "test" as well and was certain the clutch was in pristine condition. My Indy test drove it, however, and was of the opinion I was in need of a new clutch. So I elected to do the IMS at the same time. If my clutch had been good, I would have kept driving it until I needed to replace, then done the bearing. It's a 99, so that factored in to my thought process as well.

My C2 Cab's clutch pulled perfectly when I bought it at 93k, but lack of service history and clean looking tranny bolts led my mechanic and I to the conclusion that the car was on it's original clutch. That, plus variocam chain rattle that would also occur at warm start led to decision for engine-out, full alpahbet soup of parts engine-refresh. When the clutch came out it showed wear well into the rivets on the pressure plate side, but still just enough meat on the flywheel side where there was not yet any scarring damage to the flywheel. My point being... these clutch discs can work really well for a very long time berefore showing signs of needing replacement. In my case, we got in there just early enough to reuse the flywheel, which saved me roughly $1k in additional expense vs. had I waited a month or two.

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Ok - that gives me great confidence to move ahead with this - a bit of early maintenance could well pay off in the future. I'm going to ask the mechanics to keep a reord of what they find as it may be helpful to others in the future. Thanks!

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Interesting info. Thanks for the data point, since I'm coming up on 90k miles. I guess the pull test in 3-4th gear isn't as qualified for the 996. Almost any other car will slip pretty good at that point.

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Ask them to hold onto the parts they swap out, like the clutch plate, IMSB, water pump, AOS, thermostat and such... AOS can be taken apart and new diaphrams put in. I haven't tried it myself yet, but I have my old AOS here and bought diaphrams for it for $14 and will probably give that shot at some point... And if you ever sell the car and tell someone in-the-know that you had IMSB swapped as preventative maintenance, the first question out of their mouth should be "had it already failed?" It really helps to show them the old bearing along with the receipt so they can see it was not failing. If the engine is coming out to do all of this, consider having your mechanic work up a leakdown & compression test for you. And be sure to keep the print outs or photos of the results. I sold my black cab w/99k miles on it via Bring a Trailer a few weeks ago for, quite frankly, $3-4k more than I expected to get for it... The buyer told me on the phone afterwards that he was sold on the presentation of the car and the lack of question marks the mechanical condition of the car posed. Me keeping the old IMSB and original leather seat covers and including them in the sale made a difference. He also mentioned the used oil analysis and leakdown test as confidence builders. You may have no intention now of selling the car anytime soon, but having those data points and evidence thereof will give a buyer of a used, former super car considerable peace of mind and will either 1) make your car easier to sell; 2) sell for higher price, or both. Start a 3-ring binder and hole punch and file all of that stuff into a book. It all makes a difference.

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Interesting point regarding slippage and the pull test ... I test drove my car -- prior to purchase -- with the bad clutch. It pulled well and I couldn't feel any slip even at wide open throttle. The only clue, of sorts, was fairly high effort. From this, the shop thought that the clutch needed replacing. When the shop went to replace the clutch, the pressure plate was worn down to the rivets and had damaged the flywheel pretty badly. They had expected the worn clutch but were actually surprised that the flywheel was trashed.

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Always a good idea to hang onto original parts. Also a good idea, I started a ring binder when I got my car, went from small to medium to extra large and its now thick with pages!

So I bit the bullet with my local Indy and had everything recommended to bring the car up to good drive able standard. I don't expect to have to go back until the next full service. I was doubting that I needed a clutch replacement but that has by far been the most noticeable from the driver's seat. Now the car is easy to drive, smooth, changes gear without any jerkiness etc. and I'm not getting a full leg workout on each journey. The IMS retrofit from LN was installed at the same time - not sure what I should be looking for on the original but it seems ok to me. Apparently I need to return this to LN in order to validate my warranty. Does anyone know if they send them back after?As all the discs and pads have been changed I'm going easy on the brakes at the moment but expect more bite to become evident, certainly it's less stressful driving knowing my stoppers are in perfect condition. Having AC is a bonus!

Can't hurt to ask them to return it...

(For future reference: This thread's title is the correct way to explain this scenario. Less effective ways of conveying information include gems like "HAVE MILSHAKE!")

Remember folks Luke is in the English Rust Belt so brakes.suspension,exhaust work may be difficult.Encouraging him to get back into heavy diy car mechanics after a 30 year 'retirement' from it may be a little over enthusiastic? If it were an old MGB ,different story.

"Luke...Use the Force..." evrything else will take care of itself

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Indeed - horrible corrosion, seized nuts etc. I'll start with the little jobs thanks.

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Haha - that's what I should have done before starting this! On the positive side - sun's out and we are out to play today. Already added 2k to the clock.

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If no visible issues or loose parts on your bearing, then it's probably just fine... I forgot about LN wanting bearings shipped to them. Pretty sure they want to inspect the old bearing to look for evidence of failure, so they don't end up honoring their warranty on a car that has already experienced a full bearing failure. In cases where the original bearing leaked debris into the oil, it's virtually impossible to get out all of the bearing shrapnel hiding in nooks and crannies in the engine. Those engines are destined to eventually fail and present a bad warranty risk to LN. For the sake of putting potential future buyers at ease over outgoing bearing condition, I would think documentation/proof of proper LN warranty would also be sufficient. In your case, I'd either shoot some pics of the bearing and mail it in as asked to complete your warranty registration, or forego the warranty and hold onto the bearing. From my readings in this forum, I think the LN warranty is more to pacify the need for consumers to have a warranty and serves as much less of a safety net than the word implies. I had the EPS Eternal cylinder bearing installed in my black cab during my engine refresh project, so I am not 100% on this as I did not research the LN warranty at all, but doesn't the LN only cover the cost of the bearing in the unlikely event that it should be proven one of their bearings failed? If so, the bulk of cost associated with such failure would be for labor and the host of other internal parts anyway, so the eventual value of said warranty is really only a negligible amount compared to the big picture should that happen... I think member Gnat has an LN bearing in his car and instead of sending his in to complete the warranty process, he chose to have his old IMSB plated in gold and now uses it as his avatar photo, paperweight, conversation piece and decor item... Clever, still getting some "mileage" out of his old bearing.

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Job one run out to the new Bunnings for Pb blaster/wd-40! ​​​​​​Youre welcome from Australia :-p

Enjoying the car now that it's healthy? Post more pics, we don't see many targas.

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Having fun cleaning the car - paintwork has a few marks that could do with sorting. Well over 2k miles now and hasn't missed a beat. Now I need to find a great location for a photo shoot! P.s. Is there any way to rotate photos here? Half of my pictures came out sideways.

Very nice! Sure glad it worked out for you...

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