Magnetic Oil Drain plug and impending IMS failure

While attending a northwest region PCA meeting, a presentation by Greg Fordahl who prepares cars for Porsche for Daytona and Sebring among other work. Afterwards, I asked him about impending IMS failure. He said that having a magnetic oil drain plug would show impending IMS failure by finding bearing material on the plug. This is the first I've read (other than by actual physical inspection) that there is a way to find an impending failure "in process". He also said that cutting open the oil filter would not reveal anything as the filter would not allow the bearing material through into the filter part. (I had one oil filter changed and the filter cut open just to see what was in there - answer - nothing). The obvious issue is that you'd have to remove the drain plug - other than when doing an oil change - and attempt to minimize the amount of oil escaping while inspecting the plug. Perhaps a "finger in the dike" method might work. Or perhaps some sort of plastic plug. Anyone out there actually use this technique and any results to report?

I'm not sure I understand his reasoning for not examining the filter...in every filter, there is a filtered side and an unfiltered side - that's kind of the point. IMS bearing debris typically found in the filter/filter housing are small 1-2mm specks of ferrous metal; they flake off the bearing races and/or get chewed up by the oil pump and definitely appear in the filter en masse when a bearing is being chewed up. The larger debris - i.e. chunks of metal from a shredded race - settles on the sump plate. If you are interested in using metal debris in the oil to diagnose an IMS bearing failure in progress, you should invest in an IMS Guardian - that's precisely why it exists. Your odds of timing your drain plug check at precisely the right moment - where you see the first flakes heralding a bearing's destruction - are pretty slim. Either way, you're closing the barn door after the horses have gone - once there's metal in the oil, you're boned, and your options at that point pretty much only involve deciding how much money you want to spend. If you're going to be part of the "I worry about the IMS bearing" camp, proactively replacing the bearing or eliminating it entirely are better options in my opinion than waiting around to find signs that the bearing is failing and THEN doing something about it... This is typically the part where the "it's all hysteria" crowd chimes in, so...you know...you've got that going for you. Which is nice.

5CHN3LL: Here is Greg Fordahl's exact message re bearing particles: The bearing particles are generally not found in the filter as they are too large to fit through the suction screen. Your car uses a "green" filter that is easy to inspect without having to cut a metal housing off. We sell a magnetic drain plug with our oil changes that is produced by L&N. Greg

Check your magnetic drain plug between oil changes? Must. Resist. Name calling. Erhhhhhghhhghghhg

I agree with Schnelly. Haven't had a chance to post this in awhile: Or this one:

Can't see how this thread doesn't not go really unwell.

I think Jake is now offering a sump fingering seminar at his Waco-styled encampment.

Greg Fordahl's message: For those of you who don't know of Fordahl Engineering, they prepare all sorts of Porsche cars for the track. During this session last Saturday, I saw a brand new Cayman being taken apart and prepped for racing. There was also a 993 race car and four or five 944 race cars. Greg is an expert with more hands on and design engine experience than probably all the members of this forum put together. So I expect his comment above is accurate. I read about the IMS Guardian. What I didn't like about its description is that this device measures bearing particles and will automatically shut down your engine when it finds some. Somehow, I don't take a lot of comfort from a device that was not designed by Porsche factory engineers having the "power" to shut down a running engine. I'd rather just replace the IMS at a reasonable service interval and call it preventive maintenance.

What's this thread about? I'm confused.

Does Greg usually speak in the third person? Your last sentence /thread

I have the IMS guardian. Came with my car. It is wired to an audible alarm if enough metal pieces build up on the magnetic drain plus. I don't know about it shutting off the engine. I also think it's a good idea. When I change the oil I do check the drain plus for metal pieces. Haven't seen anything so far. I'm also looking into this theory of cold starts destroying walk of cylinders. I've been saving oil from past oil changes and actually have a set before cold starts and after cold starts and I'm going to send for oil analysis to see any results just because I'm curious.

Your man Greg might be the smartest guy in the porsche game, but his comments that you have relayed make him sound like an absolute dope.

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I have IMS guardian in my car. I have a tiptronic as it does not make sense for me to drop the engine/trans just to get to IMS and RMS. I will do the IMS eventually when either my guardian sound the alarm or AOS or oil cooler needs replacing. I believe the magnetic drain plug helps but it does not constantly monitor your engine wear. It might be too late when you see metal bits in your filter/magnetic drain plug. That is when guardian comes in... The guardian is a metal detection sensor (MCD). It has 2 magnets spaced with some certain clearance (spacing is calibrated for 5K miles oil change interval). When metal particulate accumulate enough to establish connection between 2 ends of the magnet (early IMS failure), it will sound the alarm. It will not shut down your engine. Its you responsibility to shut down the engine (to save it) or keep driving until it blows. Jake also mentioned that guardian can detect multiple other modes of failure, not just IMS. Also, the OEM Porsche filter can let unfiltered oil to bypass. In case of IMS failure, it let the metal bits to bypass and lodge themselves in the other parts of the engine, causing wear and damage. Flat6/LN has developed spin on oil filter system that does not allow oil to bypass the filter. I think Jake mentioned that IMS guardian combined with spin on non-bypass filter might be able to save your engine in the event of early IMS failure. I can't be more pleased with the guardian and spin on adapter quality. Very well build. Also, both LN and Flat 6 stand behind their product. Excellent customer service. Both Jake and Charles are easy to deal with. Jake or Charles, please correct me if I'm wrong or speak something incorrectly.

I'm not really understanding Fordahl's alleged point. If bearing material is found on his magnetic plug, it's too late, the engine has to come apart anyway to clean all the bits out. How often does he suggest taking the plug out? If the bearing starts to fall apart near the beginning of an oil cycle on a street machine the bearing will most likely fall completely apart well before the next oil change. Next time you change your oil try the "finger in the dyke" method. Good luck with that. You'll most likely end up with the "oil all over the walls, clothes, undercarriage result" especially when trying to put the plug itself back. Probably better to just drain into a clean pan and then refill with that oil again bit I think you'd be doing it every few hundred miles. Maybe for his racecars he does in fact change the oil after every run session, I am SURE he does it after every race event so yeah for him the magnetic plug may in fact work as he describes. There are plenty of recorded instances of people finding bits in the oil filter that shows the bearing beginning to fail. The pieces DO get through into the filter. All kinds of bits get into the filter, there must be a post with pix on here at least once a month with a panicked individual asking if all the crap in his filter is his bearing, most often it is not. The IMS guardian doesn't need to shut the car down, it just needs to tell YOU when to do it. It's the magnetic drain plug developed one step further to actually be of real-time use without having to constantly visually check the plug. But as you said, if you are concerned that the IMSB issue is valid, then the best option is to just replace it periodically and sleep better (albeit with a lighter wallet). Repeat every 50k miles or so etc.

gosh gee *****, I have to agree with Quad

After re-reading all the posts, I have concluded it is no wonder that Porsche lost the class action suit on IMS failures. Whether it is 3%, 6% or 8% (figures I have read all over the place), grenading that many engines due to poor design was clearly not going to go unaddressed. Now perhaps all our members, all of whom have older 996'es that fall outside the settlement dates, should bring a new legal action to get that date extended, say to 15 years and 100k miles. If Hyundai warrants their engines for 10 years, 100k miles, then shouldn't Porsche do that as a minimum?

How in the world did you gather that? That could not be more wrong. The IMSG has never shut down an engine. That said, it is possible to experience all 4 stages of IMS Bearing failure in ONE 5K mile oil service. I see this occur all the time. None of the distributors of the IMS Guardian have placed orders for 2016 stock. Cheap, off shore IMS kits that are sold cheaper than the IMSG have led to this. There are no units in stock anywhere to my knowledge, and without big orders from distributors, more units will not be made. Preventative IMS Retrofits are the only way to go. Anyone who has seen an engine tried to be retrofitted after a bearing was found in failure mode will verify this from their own pain, and agony.

No wonder Porsche lost their class action suit on IMS failures and grenaded engines. Now that most of us are outside the date for settlement, perhaps we should sue again to extend the date. Clearly this was an incompetent design. If Hyundai gives you a 100k mile engine warranty, shouldn't Porsche do that as a minimum? Jake: My apology. I thought I read it on your "how it works description".

You went from wanting to check your magnetic drain plug between oil changes to wanting to sue Porsche for something they already settled...

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Don't forget that OP is the author of this gem: It's possible he doesn't have any idea what he's talking about and shouldn't be taken seriously.

And this (link is now dead, but this is cached):

Getting old and senile scares the **** out of me.

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We can always shoot you first......

Do it for the vine

Ok, here's the trick, with engine running remove the drain plug , it will not leak any oil, if the air/oil seperator is doing its job. You can inspect the drain plug. If you shut off the engine it will drain out the oil.After many tests of our oil sumps, we ran across this. The engine vacuum prevents the oil from draining out. You can adjust oil level this way without a mess with 2 guys. One in the car starting and stopping the engine, one guy underneath catching the oil, That's what we do at Mantissport.

I thought we weren't allowed to use the term 'oil sump' in this forum?

How to check magnetic drain plug between oil changes? Easy, just turn the car over.

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Does air get sucked into the sump that way?

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This works if the AOS is healthy, and the engine is healthy. If either of these are not, then the vacuum will not be great enough to do this trick. I learned this long ago doing M96 Engine development work in Calgary Canada after hitting a frost line in the highway that cracked the sump plate. With the engine running I did not lose any oil at all, and drove 250 miles to my stopping point. When the engine was shut off, the oil drained at a fast rate. I swapped sump plates and in 45 minutes I was back on the road. I was losing so much vacuum pressure that the engine maxed out short term fuel trim, and I had to do a handover to clear the adaptive.

its good to see a totally worthless thread every once and a while

The facts that OP (a) has not seen evidence that IMS debris can DEFINITELY be present in the oil filter, regardless of what God's own Porsche mechanic says, and (b) has a fundamentally flawed understanding of the IMS Guardian tell me that OP needs to do a LOT more reading before posting further questions on this topic. OP, I'm not even trying to be a jerk here - but you missed the broad side of the barn with both shots. Badly. You said this: " This is the first I've read (other than by actual physical inspection) that there is a way to find an impending failure "in process". " There are literally dozens of threads here - and on pretty much every other Porsche site updated in the last decade - about finding IMSB debris in the filter, in the sump, and on the drain plug - your claim that this is the first time you've heard such information literally confuses me...I do not understand how it's even remotely possible that you could come away from any 996-centric site or forum without an understanding of this fundamental fact. He also said that cutting open the oil filter would not reveal anything as the filter would not allow the bearing material through into the filter part. Maybe shoot him a copy of this image? "(I had one oil filter changed and the filter cut open just to see what was in there - answer - nothing)." Using this logic, I will never (again) have cancer because that one time the doctor tickled my prostate, everything was good. And NO, I did not enjoy it. Sheesh.

Yes, its sucks air in with engine running, found out in 2006 when Mantissport was designing our Deep sumps/underdrive pulleys for racing/track use. That's when I was the only Cayman S racing 2006-2007 PCA. Refer to Panorama issue 2006 Sept article. Its for sale till the end of the month.

I was just thinking air->drain hole->oil pickup->main bearings. Not very nice.

Ahsi, drain plug is offset to the oil pick up location. no worries. you only run it for a few seconds.

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Maybe I am missing something, but how are you going to stop and restart the engine fast enough to avoid a lot of oil draining out? Ifi I need to lower the oil level a little, I drop the oil filter and drain the oil from it

It works, believe.

You can also remove your drain plug and slide your thumb over the hole and only lose a tablespoonful or two of oil...when my ancient magnetic plug died, I removed the barrel of the busted plug and installed the new plug and lost maybe 2 oz of oil tops. I think I'd go this route rather than running the engine plugless, but whatever works...