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YOUR RESEARCHFair price for a modified C4S?
Leading reported evidence
Install (at least as far as i can tell)
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
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1
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Read evidence and context
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
For example, the front bumper has a cutout for the center radiator, but it does not appear that the center radiator was installed (at least as far as I can tell).
Leading evidence: 'Install (at least as far as i can tell)' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, The most frequently discussed action is 'Check areas you have concern' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
INSTALLED IMS UPATE BEARING .SUPPLIED PARTS NO LONGER WITH OLD ENGINE DUE TO CONVERSION TURBO SET- UP.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
IMS done when new engine dropped in, but no documentation LN bearing was installed vs.
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The previous owner installed the wing on my car - and that upgrade, like all of the other ones - were top-notch.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
SUPPLIED MASS AIRFLOW SENSOR (REMOVED FOR AFTER MARKET INTAKE) REPLACED BROKEN O2 SENSOR.
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For example, the front bumper has a cutout for the center radiator, but it does not appear that the center radiator was installed (at least as far as I can tell).
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Came across a car in Canada that I'd have to import, but looks to be a rather well taken care of C4S. What's a fair price given the modifications?
Engine and body have ~ 72k miles on them. Aftermarket mufflers & cats. Xacto knife mark on front bumper, front bumper cracked from hitting a curb. Rear bumper crash bar removed to accommodate aftermarket exhaust. I'm not wild at all about GT2 look front bumper or rear wing when car is obviously not that. IMS done when new engine dropped in, but no documentation LN bearing was installed vs. replacement OEM Porsche bearing.
Interior
- Custom Alcantera wrapped steering wheel, shift boot, and E-Brake
- Custom Sound system: Pioneer AVIC-6000NEX , Phoenix Gold Amps x2, PHD AF audiophile speakers on dash, Focal in the doors, factory rear fill,
Exterior
- 997 Cup Vent on front bumper
- LED front bumper lights
- GT2 rear deck
Suspension
- OEM GT3 Front Lower control arm
- OEM GT3 Sway bars
Engine
- IPD plenum
- NHP 200 CELL high flow ca
- OEM gutted mufflers
Factory options
Interior:
AH Black Full Leather w/ Alcantara
Headliner,
XRC 18" Sport Techno Wheels,
P74 Xenon Headlamps,
M6A Black Mats - Porsche Lettering,
680 Bose High End Sound Package,
446 Wheel Caps Coloured Caps,
342 Heated Front Seats,
P11 Self-Dim Mirrors & Rain Sensor,
Y06 Alum/Lth Shifter/Brake Handle,
XSC Porsche Crest in Headrest,
P78 Sport Seats Full Leather,
Y29 Alum/Chrome Pkg X71, X70, X54.
It appears that $33K Canadian = $23.7K US dollars. I would say that it seems to be the right price if it is $23.7K, it has thousands of dollars of mods in it.
I know, because I am spending the money on my car.
Or are they asking $33K US?
What year?
USD or CAD?
Mod are hard to price as you don't know when they were put on, it could be specific fit and therefore a replacement or maintenance issue and they could be worn out.
I'd offer them $28k and they pay import cost to get it across the border.
Make sure it was a US car imported to CA before you try bringing it back or you'll need to qualify that it's eligible for US use. (Govt involvement and letter from Porsche).
Good luck. I brought back mine from Montreal in 2015.
It seems like a good price, but it all depends on what you think of the modifications. Some people are willing to pay for them, and some are not. In fact, many people feel that modifications detract from the value. If you like them and you were planning to mod it anyway, then it might be a great deal for you.
My worry on mods is that front bumper is modified and cracked...want to return to OEM. GT2 wing on a C4S isn't my style - would want original deck lid. Those who put logos on car and giant wings generally like to be seen and are type who rev engine at stoplight, like dropping clutch, drive more aggressively and generally abuse cars more. Mods came already done to current owner when he bought car, but I'm worried more surprises lurk below what I can see.
Just saw the post about USD vs. CAD.
Personally, I wouldn't pay that much for that car. Pricing is always a difficult topic. It really comes down to this: what's it worth to you, as the buyer? I think the best that you can do is make sure that it's in the ballpark of fair market value and that you aren't too far from that.
Thanks Dennis, that's what I'm trying to do and why I initially left price of my post to see our lovely forum's opinion on what they think is fair. As a financial analyst, I'm pretty objective when it comes down to pricing and measuring value vs comps. I shared my methodology with seller and didn't get feeling from him he was interested.
PPI (I have a good list for Montreal area. Not sure where you're buying) but you're still going to be taking a risk. Im sure you can ask them to check areas you have concern with. I agree with you on mods, so I tread carefully. I also gauge who I'm buying from based on what car they are upgrading to and why. If they are sticking with Porsche then they probably had a good experience. Being straight from Stuttgart. You're going to have to prove to the US it is ok. Which probably means contacting Porsche and getting a letter is ok for operation in US as it won't have the DOT and EPA stickers. DOT form HS-7, EPA form 3520-1. Duty is around 2.5% I also think you have more bargaining power than you realize that I won't post about on the Internet. But if you PM me ill give you my number and we can discuss. It can also take time to register. So make sure you know how to get it across (travel documents) and be prepared for it to sit until registered.
I would not pay anywhere close to $33,000 USD for that car. I wish a car like this was worth that money. Personally I wouldn't even pay the $23,000 as I would have to revert all of the exterior mods (bumper, hideous wing, and badge).
Here is an existing thread on importing.
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...to-the-us.html
I think $33k (US) is too high for that car. I was able to buy a U.S. '03 C4 Cab (6 speed) with 33k miles for under $30k less than a year ago.
There are some generalizations going on here that may not be entirely accurate/fair. The previous owner installed the wing on my car - and that upgrade, like all of the other ones - were top-notch. Wanting your car to look like a GT3 doesn't necessarily mean you're a boy racer that tears it up at every stop light...
What bothers me are mods that are half-done. For example, the front bumper has a cutout for the center radiator, but it does not appear that the center radiator was installed (at least as far as I can tell). OP, I suspect you're right to be worried about other surprises waiting for you.
If the 996 was a rare item, I'd encourage you to try to get the price down and make a deal. However, there is no shortage of 996 inventory, and from your description the mods that are installed (like the cracked front bumper) may not be in good enough condition to resell.
For $33K (or less, possibly much less), you should be able to find a low-mileage, meticulously maintained C4S.
Which is why I said 'generally' in my post and not 'adding a wing most definitely means you've abused your vehicle'. It's a red flag for me, whether it's a generalization or not. If I'm spending $2k, let alone $25k on a used vehicle, I'm going to assume the worst until otherwise proven wrong. One of the advantages to this being a buyers market
Just pulled this from a statement sent by seller when engine replacement done. May explain center radiator cutout...
CUSTOMER REQUESTS SWAP ENGINE IN CURRENT CAR WITH USED ENGINE SUPPLIED BY CUSTOMER. SWAP OVER COMPONENTS WHERE NEEDED. ADDTIONAL PARTS FOUND FROM OLD ENGINE NO LONGER SERVICEABLE. REPLACED WATER PUMP, ALL DRIVE BELT AND DRIVE BELT TENSIONER AND PULLY. REPLACED LEAKING OIL LINE. REPLACED WATER HOSES AND CLAMPS AS NEEDED. REPLACED FLYWHEEL, AND CLUTCH RELEASE GUIDE. CUSTOMER PROVIDED AFTERMARKET CATALYTIC CONVERTORS. INSTALLED IMS UPATE BEARING .SUPPLIED PARTS NO LONGER WITH OLD ENGINE DUE TO CONVERSION TURBO SET- UP. CENTER RADIATOR FOR TURBO CONVERTION LEFT ON CAR AND BLOCKED OFF. REPLACED INJECTOR SEALS,SPARK PLUGS AND FILTERS WERE NEEDED. USED PARTS PROVIDED BY SPEEDSPORT: TWO MUFFLERS, HEADERS AND CORRECT AIRBOX. SUPPLIED MASS AIRFLOW SENSOR (REMOVED FOR AFTER MARKET INTAKE) REPLACED BROKEN O2 SENSOR. FILL OIL. ENGINE WOULD NOT START DUE TO AFTERMARKET TUNING PROGRAM. RESET DME TO PORSCHE FACTORY SPECS. NOW ENGINE RUNS. RUNS OK. INPECTED FOR LEAKS. NOTED THAT POWER STEERING IS SLUGGISH. NO EXHAUST TIPS ON CAR. CUSTOMER ADVISED THAT REAR BUMPER CRASH BAR MISSING DUE TO AFTERMARKET CONVERSION. CUSTOMER ADVISED BUT DECLINDED NEEDED PARTS. RE-INSTALL HEAT SHEILDS AND BUMPER COVER AS IS. ROADTEST
I think you're approaching it the right way. The difficulty with modifications is that they generally don't increase the value of the car, and they often decrease the value. It's like updating your house. You generally don't recoup any of your investment unless you spend it on kitchens or bathrooms, and even then it's questionable. An owner may spend $15,000 in modifications on a car, only to find the value decreased or not increased. That's a tough pill to swallow. Values are a little bit easier to determine on a stock vehicle.
The car in question here has a few red flags, aside from the price.
The car was super charged at one time, reason for the 3rd rad, original engine blew and replaced with a used engine. Who knows where this engine came from to determine if the cylinders are scored on it. If priced in Cdn I would spent the money to have a camera scope the cylinders and then decide.
I'd freaking take the Porsche crest of the back lid though if I were selling it. Looks idiotic there.
I don't disagree. If that car was in perfect condition, buying one with parts you don't want might have been an asset. However, when the parts are rinky-dink and/or beat up, it's time to look elsewhere. Like you say, there is no shortage of inventory, so why buy into someone else's project?
That explains why the rear bumper bar was removed - it wasn't for the exhaust, it was to make room for the turbo and all the plumbing. Makes you wonder what else was hacked out to make room for stuff that is no longer there...
Run like hell - the owner that had that work done was too cheap to do it right. Whoever winds up with this car is going to find "surprises."
Here is one priced in Cdn at 31k or 22 USD with less miles, I think you would find a few here to choose from
http://www.autotrader.ca/a/Porsche/9...howcpo=ShowCPO
I often tell car guys who refer to the car mods they've done as an "investment" by enlightening them to the reality that unless they find a buyer who absolutely loves the mods you've done, feel lucky if you can recoup even 25� for every dollar of out-of-pocket parts costs (i.e., zero bux for you own labor).
To the OP, there are tons of 996's here in the states at better prices and without the mods you don't care for or the other issues you're concerned about with that car.
If it was a can I would like it more, but the real question is do you like it? Their asking price is just a starting point. You wrote that the body and engine have 72k on them but also then you said the IMS was done when a new engine was installed. How many miles on it then. The IMS replacements are not forever so it could be due if you are really picky.
