Convert the engine to non-egas?

I have a 99 996 C2 that needs a new engine. There is a great 2001 engine available but it is a egas engine. Two questions. 1) Steps to convert my car to e-gas 2) Steps to convert engine to non-egas. Which one is recommended and easier to do. Thanks in advance.

I think it is as simple at taking off the E-gas throttle body and installing you non-E-gas throttle body. Everything else is basically the same.

Cool.... thank you

Yes, the right way would be take the non-egas parts from your old engine and re-use them on the new engine. On the old engine that the throttle body off and then also remove the black plastic T shaped plenum that it was bolted to. Simple put those items onto the new engine and it is now non-egas. This is how my car is running a 2003 3.6L egas motor in a 1999 car.

Paul, How far up the 996/997 model years do you believe that process would work? In other words, would it be possible to use a 2005 engine? I am largely ignorant on these matters, but I believe that after a certain year/model point that the immobilizer electronics would eventually come into play and make it too hard. Wouldn't you also need to change the ECU? Just curious about the "newest" engine that could be used for that upgrade.

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Generally things get more difficult if you venture to use an engine that is not from the same MYs as the car. That is, trying to adapt and 05 engine into a car made in 2002 and earlier -- I think I have MY ranges right -- is more complicated cause the newer engine can have more bells/whistles that the existing controller does not have. One possible bell/whistle is VarioCam Plus and another is a more complex intake manifold resonance setup. The engine controller "knows" nothing about these can can't control these properly and the engine may not run right and CELs and other problems can arise. It is possible someone has solved these issues though, but as I said generally things get more difficult... Sincerely, Macster.

Based on memory alone and without verifying docs first. I am pretty sure that the 1st generation 997 3.6 motors are mechanically identical to the 2nd generation 996 3.6 motors for the purposes of this discussion adapting to non e-gas. Edit, There are several proven techniques for using a M96 3.6 in a 1999 non egas car. Later model years all went to egas and different ecus which offered yet different techniques. I have a general but fading recollection of the later cars but well versed on the options for a 1999 car with DME v5.22 conversion to a 3.6L since that was my car. I looked at all the options available 3 years ago when I was in need and took what I felt was the more "proven at the time" approach with a shop that had verifiable success at doing it (ie my buddy had a car already converted that I could see and touch). Over the years I have seen some crazy myths put out on Rennlist about this conversion that absolutely baffle me. Cruise won't work, Constant check engine light, won't pass smog, random accessory won't work, etc. Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. I am very happy with the conversion going on its 3rd year. No dealer can tell that anything is done via computer unless they go look at the engine case # and pull the cover to look next to my DME. Tuning wise I think that I have a pretty potent car with 299 RWHP, turns a 12.6 in the quarter mile (the single time I took it there) and gets 29mpg cruising at 75mph. I love the 3.6 engine with it's peaky VC+ kick in the pants, would have loved a 3.8 but the opportunity wasn't there at the time or I would have. Bottom line, if you need a new engine you have several power plant options with several different approaches to getting it accomplished. Research and ask questions of those who have done if for a living and do seek out prior customer feedback.

Paul Do you know if they used the newer DME to take full advantage of the VarioCamPlus?

Converting that engine to non egas is simple...

Done, it was really simple. Just one vacuum leak to be fixed and I am all set :-) Thank you

Dumb question: egas = Euro gas?

egas = "electronic" gas / throttle (year 2000+) non-egas = "cable" gas / throttle (year 1999)

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Thanks Doug. Contrary to popular myth, I can be taught.

1999 C2 used DME 5.2.2 - no egas programming 1999 C4 to 2001 (C2 and C4) used DME 7.2 with egas programming. Might be easier to convert the engine non-egas IMHO.

So is it really that easy? Just take the T/B and plenum off your '99 M96 and slap it onto a 2001/2002 ish 3.6L? Going back to Doug's question, how does the 5.2.2 DME deal with VCam+, or does that engine swap it also include a new 7.2 DME (and immo, alarm, instrument, etc... ) ??? What about wiring harness/etc.

I'd think you'd want to score the DME that came with the updated motor to make everything as easy as possible. 99's don't have the MOST system so I don't know if you need a data net system or not on the 7.2 ver of software. I know that there are a whole host of other sensors that the newer DME type reads which would have to be taken into account - more so if there is PSM involved and the orig chassis didn't have that option, (not may 99's do). It maybe easy for a person like Jake to do this swap, but everything comes with a cost. I'm sure you could put an F1 engine in a 99 and there is always someone to say thats easy as well - so long as the bank draft clears of course...

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diff ball game,OP wanted to swap an '01 so 3.4 egas into 99 3.4 non egas. the 02+ 3.6 has 7.8 DME which needs to be incorporated to have the VC+ work correctly. 3.6 has the variable VC while the prior 3.4 VC is either on or off. If going to a 3.6 was as easy and swapping TB's. Id have my perma-grin on already

non e-gas 3.4 DME = 5.2 - Vario Cam e-gas 3.4 DME = 7.2 - Vario Cam e-gas 3.6 DME = 7.8 - Vario Cam Plus and MOST bus. The biggest difference between the 5.2 and the 7.2 DME's is the e-gas, both are set up for Vario Cam. So the swap between these is basically just the Throttle Body and the Plenum. Swapping for a 3.6 Vario Cam Plus engine is far more complex. It needs the 7.8 DME to control the Vario Cam Plus, and the 7.8 is a MOST bus system, not compatible with much of the wiring, the instruments, etc. etc. Also has no return fuel line. So for the DIY crowd stick with 3.4 cable and e-gas.

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Reviving an old thread. I am considering putting in a lower mile 3.4 in my 2000 C4 Tip cab and am wondering if I need to get the exact same engine or if I can use a 3.4 from the same era, if I swap the ancillaries. My engine is at 125K and is getting a bit tired. I have found several non gas 99s for sale that might work. Also, does it make a difference whether the engine is a MT or Auto? Or a C4 or C2? Finding the exact same configuration might be a challenge. Thanks in advance. Cheers, TomF

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Ideally you would want the same engine. Same in the sense if the engine in your car is non E-Gas you want a non E-Gas engine. And if your car has Tip transmission you want a engine from a donor Tip equipped car. I seem to recall the two engines -- manual vs. Tip -- have some wiring harness differences, but don't quote me. If you say get an E-Gas engine then you have to convert it to non E-gas by moving the non E-Gas hardware from the original engine to the new engine. What it would take to make an engine from a manual equipped car into one suitable for a Tip equipped car I'm not at all able to say. Maybe not much but you should know before you leap... BTW, the Pelican parts site has a section on engine swapping. I haven't checked but you could to see if this is covered. Oh, is the engine in your car really *tired*? 125K miles is not that many miles and sometimes the tiredness of the engine is more in the mind of the owner than real.

Macster, Thanks for your comments. My car developed an intermix issue a couple of years ago and has been sitting (flushed and drained) ever since. Family, work and a major house remodel have gotten in the way. I suspect it is the usual head cracking issue that the 2000s were prone to. I have a spare set of heads, so I can either go the route of replacing one or both the heads, or do an engine refresh or rebuild. Alternatively, I can "drop" in a used engine. Next week, I am going to take it down to a reputable indy the has replaced just one head for a friend on his 3.4, solving the intermix issue. If it turns out to be a reasonable cost to remedy, I will probably go that route as the engine was really tight and trouble-free before the intermix issue. Cheers, TomF

I find it funny the pcar guys call a dbw system egas

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IIRC I think e-Gas is Porsche's name for the drive by wire throttle.

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It's still funny

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I have a 1998 convertible with a M97 engine. 2 companies have told me that I can replace the gas pedal to an electric one, also the throttle body electronic, and E Gas 996 ECU together with a stand alone/piggy back ECU and proper programming would make this into a solid platform. My alternative is to get the M96 engine and sell the M97.