Oil in Coolant

Hello all, Forgive my ignorance, as I am not yet a Porsche owner. I found a listing for a 1999 911 Carrera Cab which the owner states "Engine is mixing oil with coolant. changed oil cooler. May need head gasket or more" Is this a vehicle worth pursuing? Is this a sign of something catastrophic? The vehicle is discribed as good condition otherwise. Being a newbie, just not sure if it is something I should be considering. Any input is appreciated. Thanks

Run unless you're looking for a project to diy.

How long has it been sitting in this state of repair? These rehab projects can get very expensive (ask me how I know)...

It’s never a head gasket, usually much more.

Hey guys, Thanks for the quick response. Not sure how long the car has been in it's present state. I found the listing on the PCA classifieds. The owner is selling it as "project" or "Mint parts car" with 25k miles. Owner is asking $12,500 US. I would love to get a 911, but I am at the mercy of my modest budget. Some form of 996 is surely where I must look, but it seems a "fixer" is even more of what I can afford. I suppose finding something with a few bumps and bruises with a solid drivetrain might be a better idea.

He is dreaming, it’s a $5k car

If he could part it out for $12,500 he would. At $5000 buy it At $7000 it's a risk Anything more than that I would just take fresh new $20 bills and flush them down the toilet

Oil in coolant will be a cracked cylinder head - Common fault on 3.4 engine

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Good point.

I would caution that Porsche on a modest budget is a tall order. If you are mechanically inclined and a do-it-yourselfer that certainly helps. Good luck in whatever direction you choose, there is nothing like a Porsche.

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Based on my experience with the so called "intermix" syndrome, I wouldn't purchase this car. Intermix is no respecter of car brands. This is not just a Porsche problem. The problem with intermix is that it pollutes to entire cooling system. If it's not cleaned out immediately, the oil/petroleum/coolant mixture works to deteriorate the rubber hoses which means that not only do you have to repair the source of that caused the intermix (head crack, block crack, etc.), but now you'll have to spend tons of money replacing all of the coolant hoses and possibly the radiators. In my opinion, you're better off taking more time and find a good used 996. You can many 99 and 2000 models in the sub $20K range. Good luck!

I think it's clear, this is not the car for me. https://www.pca.org/classified-ad/329733 I've seen quite a few 996's that have had the IMS issue addresed and are the sellers daily driver. Perhaps this is the "safer" route to go. The 911 has been my "dream" car since I was a kid. I'm now in my 50's, and willing to sacrifice a bit to have one as a weekend driver. I honestly never knew that they were quite fragile and prone to expensive issues. Still, I'm the type of person to pamper my vehicles, so if I eventually find one that is mechanically solid (as much as possible) that could use a bit of cosmetic help, it will be in good hands. I would enjoy sprucing it up over time. With all that I read about the pitfalls of Porsche ownership, folks are absolutely nuts about these cars and fiercely loyal to the brand. There must be something behind that.

Definitely keep looking. You can find higher mileage running 996s for that price.

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Well, I haven't been on the forums that long, but I have owned quite a few sports cars and other European automobiles. My best advice to you is to NOT drink the Kool Aid the forum downers are serving. These cars are far from Fragile. They are meant to be driven hard and are known for their endurance and performance. Yes, even the 996 and 997.1 generations. Of course, you must be aware that you're purchasing a 20 year old Porsche and not a Toyota Corolla. Therefore, any Porsche you're considering to purchase should be evaluated by a professional usually in the form of a pre-purchase inspection. Also, be aware of the areas of the 996 that are known to be common wear items such as the water pump, AOS, RMS, and course.... the IMS. All other wear items (battery, brakes, suspension, belts, etc.) are common with any used car. Yes, the car is more expensive to maintain than your average American sports car, but it's a driving experience that's second to none.

I wouldn�t buy that car. That�s almost definitely not an easy or cheap fix. At the very least the motor will need to be out and disassembled to be fixed. Theres some good info info in this thread. Use it to pursue your dream. These cars have issues, but almost any car does. The 996 issues are well documented which allows one to arm themselves with what to look for. Of course sometimes **** goes sideways and that is a risk although fairly low given the build quality of these cars. Id be willing to bet a car like this will go for similar money and you can actually drive it. Not Saying this is a great buy, but found it in 5min and would think it a better candidate over the one in question. https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F312225314005

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FOR 12.5K you can get a solid running 996. Keep looking.

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This car has issues from an accident (things don't line up) and has a reserve of who knows what... Watch CarGurus and Auto trader for the car you want in your price range. Set it up so you get email notifications as soon as one is listed. Also check various Craigslist ad as there are 996's all over the country for sale. Also the forum has the "CL good buy/finds" topic to watch. Good luck! What's your budget?

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Here’s an example of a driver in that price range https://fastlanemotorsnc.com/1011294...s/Details.aspx

This guy is out of his ever loving mind asking $12500 for a car with a bad motor. Your looking at a 10k repair minimum. RUND, DONT WALK AWAY

Thank you so much for the honest and helpful advice. I already like then Porsche community. : ) I've been searching for cars in the 15K - 20K range. When I see one at 12K it grabs my attention, thinking that leaves me some room to address IMS etc. I recently passed on a 2001 cab that had a rebuilt motor with upgraded IMS. The owner called it a "bullet proof" 911, which I took with a grain of salt. I contacted an independent shop in San Diego to do a PPI, and they sent me an article on the 996 that scared the $#%&# out of me. Needless to say, fear and all, I'm still looking.

A cheap Porsche up front will be expensive in the back. That being said do not let the idiots out there scare you, they are great cars with a bad reputation.

^^^True this...

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Keep looking and saving. Don't let high miles deter you. Make sure you also drive the car before buying, it really helps get a sense of how it was taken care of. In my opinion, the 996 is the best deal around if you are considering overall performance and fun to drive/own factor. ANY 16+ year old car will have documented issues.

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Based on the OP�s budget, those are things he�d have to live with. Otherwise I�d be pointing him to $17-20k examples.

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Thats true to some extent. If it is cheap because of lack of maintenance then yes it can be expensive. If a car is cheap because of a minor accident showing up on its CarFax, then it might not become expensive. If a car is cheap because of higher mileage but has been maintained, then it might not become expensive. If it is cheap because of some known, disclosed issues, then it might not become expensive. I found mine for cheap, although not THAT cheap, because it “needed a new struts, windshield, and cup holder.” It had been well maintained, but a couple of things had just become problems. Durametric diagnostics looked great. All the repair records showed the car was well maintained. (Had IMS Solution, Fabspeed Exhaust, clear bra, 54K miles) The PO decided to sell instead of fix, and advertised it cheaply ($20K) on Facebook in order to sell quickly. The “struts making horrible noise” was just a control arm.($65 part from RockAuto) The windshield cost me only $350. (It passed inspection, but I didn’t want a cracked windshield) The cup holder still needs replacement, but I can live with it for now. Now I’ve since bought coilovers, but only because I wanted to and could afford them.

In my price range, I'm seeing a few common types of vehicle. The first is the car that has been well used, not really pampered, a history of 6+ previous owners, being sold on an independent used car lot. Probably purchased at auction, detailed to look presentable. I kind of look past these as I know the dealer probably knows little about the car (they never have records). The second is the private seller, lower mileage with IMS bearing replaced. Some have documentation, some don't. And the third, is the high mileage (100k+) car that is in good cosmetic shape but has never had the IMS address because it hasn't shown signs of needing replacement. Now reading that the higher mileage cars have less occurrence of IMS failure, I might be "safer" with a higher mileage vehicle?

I would not hesitate to buy a well used higher mileage car vs a low mile garage queen. Just do your homework and get a PPI done by someone that really knows these cars. Good luck, your car is out there!

I will give a little different perspective on this. If you look at the history of my posts you will find the story of my intermix. I bought my car in 2000 with about 4,000 miles on it. In the fall of 2008, at about 48,000 miles, and just a few months after the extended warranty expired I had an intermix, and it was extensive. The oil was like a milkshake and the coolant was like pudding. Not sure how long it was going on but discovered it when the coolant light went on. Back in those days there was limited experience with this problem and with fixing cracked heads. The dealer, my Indy and even Jake Ruby said there was no choice but to put in a new engine. To make the story short I tried to change the oil but it quickly intermixed again. I then parked the car until the next spring when I dropped the engine, found the cracked head, had it fixed for $500 by a shop in CA., spent another $1,000 or so on parts, many of which did not have to be changed or were unrelated to the intermix, like New coils, spent probably 40 hours or more of my time, this was working in my driveway on jackstands and no previous experience with a M96 engine. And I fixed the damn thing. Just yesterday it turned 96,000 miles and still runs well. By the way I have only replaced two or three hoses over the years since this happened even though they were exposed to the oil for an extended period of time. So if you can pick this car up at a reasonable price, and this is a low mileage car which means there should not be that much else that needs attention, and you have some mechanical aptitude and the desire to do it yourself, you could have a very nice car at a reasonable price. I am not saying it would be the same restore that Flat Six would do, but I have gotten another 48,000 miles and plan on driving it for many more years. Hell, if I had more time I might buy it and do it myself.

Dharn55, Thanks for the reply. I'm glad that everything worked out and your still enjoying the heck out of your car. Doing that repair yourself really saved a boatload of cash. Definitely something for me to consider.

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At the time this failure occurred there were two cracks (of the 6 common cracks) that we would not attempt to repair. The reason for this was becuse these extended into a deeper portion of the casting, and the last thing we wated was to make a repair, and have that site experience a recurrence. If l remember correctly we�d told you that you could have experienced collateral damage. We never saw the car, so l am sure that we could not have given a ruling that an engine needed replacement without judging things for ourselves. Tats not something that happens here. All these years later we�ve stopped making crack repairs altogether. Congrats on getting such a good return on your repair work:-)

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I respect that sort of judgement, it takes a true professional to understand what not to do based on their experience.

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Based on what I've seen and read, intermix problems, especially on these cars, can be very costly to repair if the crack is on the block. I think you came out like a bandit on this one and good to hear that you were able to tackle yourself. I've seen lots of people give up after dumping lots of money into cars with intermix.

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Is there a fix available for the heads cracking on the 3.4? Or are they almost classed as a consumable, run to fail and then replace? Thanks

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Not all 3.4 heads will crack. For our engines we stopped performing crack repairs primarily because of the abundance of core heads we have in inventory. All the 3.4s that we�ve had to purchase for crankshafts and other internal parts gave us plenty of 3.4 heads to use for engines that have suffered a cracked head. In the instances where this occurs we do retain the cracked heads for the time when we have to repair them. We�ve determined that some heads have a higher risk of a crack in another location occurring, at a later date. We�ve never had a head crack again at a repair site, but on two occasions we�ve had a head that was repaired crack in the same way, but on the opposite end of the cylinder head. In these instances it�s clear that the head casting had core shift, and was simply too thin in these two areas. This is classified as Y2K syndrome and we�ve only had it happen on 2000 MY 996s and Boxsters. The vast majority of crack repairs will be fine, as out of a few hundred we�ve only had two suffer another crack form somewhere else in the head. The truck is knowing what cracks to try to repair, and which heads are a high risk of cracking again later. That�s what separates the men from the boys.

I bought a 99 with a 3.4 as a roller about 10 years ago, the engine was out and disassembled when i got it. Bought a core engine for $2200 from a Porsche Indy shop in Atlanta that had replaced the engine due to intermix at 50k. The shop owner said there was oil in the coolant but no coolant in the oil( oil was prestine). Pulled the heads and sent to a friend of mine who owns Cylinder Head Service (largest head shop in Alabama but they are not Porsche specialist) . He pressure tested the heads and found a crack in #1 head and repaired it, didn't charge me anything because he said he had never done one and wasn't positive of the repair.10 years later and 70k more miles and going strong and I don't baby it !!

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If you were in business for this type of service, what would have been a guesstimate for repairing your 3.4L engine and reinstalling into the car?

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Not sure of what your asking , but the owner of the roller was given a quote of 19k for a factory replacement engine parts/labor/cleaning cooling system ect with 2 year unlimited mileage warranty.( the only available engine option for Porsche warranty at that time)..

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What would you have charged for repairing this engine (including the crack repair)?

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Repair of the original engine? or of the "core" engine that had a cracked head? I'm still not sure of what exactly your asking, it may require a detailed estimate to keep from being thousands of dollars off from all the variables/small parts that can add up, the "while your in theres" and "repair as much as necessary" vs " repair as much as possible" can make a big difference. I would use the labor time standards of the Chilton or Motor manuals to estimate labor time, engine R&R usually about 8hrs, cylinder heads R&R about 14hrs,labor rates run about 100-150hr depending on location, plus parts,outside labor (cylinder heads rebuilt and crack repaired around 2k to 2.5k)..ect..

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If you are mechanically inclined, and want to tackle a project like this......I know a GREAT M96/M97 engine assembly class you can attend!!!!

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Where the heck did you get a windshield for $350?

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Sorry to not be clear enough. I was asking for a "Guessimate" what YOU think it would have cost to put YOUR 1999 model 996 back on the road in the way YOU repaired it. Make sense? You think it would have cost $10k, $15K, or what??? I'm not talking about the original engine vs. core engine or this or that... I'm talking about the work that YOU completed to get the car running again. What do you think that would have cost if YOU were billing it out to someone else. Just a guesstimate. Not needing an act of congress or the army corp of engineers conference on the matter, just a guesstimate.

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Wow. A class like that sounds amazing. However, I don't think I'm up for a challenge like that just yet.

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We go over intermix repairs in both the online (M96 101) class, as well as the hands- on (M96 102) class. The causes, and effects of this is gone over in several different areas of each class. See www.theknowledgegruppe.com for more details. All of the M96/ M97 classes have been held for 2018, but the 2019 schedule will be released in a few weeks.

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Ok i got ya, just a rough estimate on what i would have charged in this particular repair at that time, just doing what was nessesary to get it back up and running with a 50k engine,would have been 5.4k ( with some calculated risk, a used 50k engine and an unproven head repair) 1. labor $2200 22hrs @100hr 2. $2200 used core engine with cracked head 3. $500 parts, head gaskets, misc gaskets, oil, fluids 4. $500 heads rebuild and crack repair @ $250 per head, generic head shop ( Cylinder Head Service LLC ) 50k mile heads, with no new springs or guides, just basic valve job and crack repair( didn't know Len Hoffman at that time )

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Thank you sir! Are you for hire? And yes, I know you're retired.

Thank you for all the valuable input guys. I really appreciate it. I'm going to take my time, and try to do my homework so I don't buy someone else's headache. Just curious, does anyone think the folks that list on the PCA classifieds would be any more trustworthy than other online listings (Ebay, craigslist, etc.)? Ideally, I would think someone who is a member of the PCA might be more attentive to the needs of their vehicle and more honest about it's history.

You can tell a lot about the owner and how well the car was maintained in the first 5 minutes talking to them. The key is that you need to have a decent knowledge level about the car to know what their knowledge level is and whether or not they are B.S.ing you. I spent 6 months learning the idiosyncrasies of these cars before I bought mine. This forum is a great place to start. If the owner is being honest with you, it will give you confidence that you are getting what you pay for. I used to think I would never buy a car off Craigslist, but that is where I got mine. It had an electrical issue that was killing alternators and batteries. It turned out to be a bad ground, which I suspected when I bought it. I paid 11.5k plus another 600 for the correct rebuilt Bosch alternator. It had 89k miles and ran great after the repair. Since I am now tracking my car and it is over 20 years old (March 98 build), I have had to replace most of the suspension and do some of the preventative maintenance items and modifications, such as a deep sump. I am afraid to add up the receipts, but I have probably spent an additional 9k on it. Love the car though.

I know folks here have said that higher mileage 996s are worth looking at, but is 150k too high? I found a 1999 996 in my price range, that is apparently in good condition, supposed IMS replacement (no documentation), but has 150K on the clock. I would of course get a PPI, but should I look elsewhere simply based on the mileage?

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It all depends on the service history. I'd look at it if the price (under $15K) is right. How much are they asking?

They are asking 14.5K. I'm just wondering if the mileage is the only reason for the low price. I requested the carfax on the vehicle just to start.

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I lucked into it. I ordered a windshield that was supposed to cost me a LOT more.(~$650) It came in a week later and it had a deep scratch all the way across it. Two weeks later they delivered the same exact windshield, which they denied was the same one. The next week they delivered a cracked windshield. Two weeks later they delivered one in good shape. I asked if they could „help me a little with the price. Since I didn’t throw a huge fit about it taking a month and a half to get my new windshield, they deeply discounted it.

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It's priced right (to start) depending on it's service history. A lot of parts should have been changed by now, unless it's been ignored. Definitely worth checking out in person.

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Damn, I don't want to order anything from that outfit, it sounds like.