Thoughts on DD a 996.1?

Found a one owner with sub 50k miles that has been sitting for a while and have a chance to get a good price for it. Im looking to daily drive and do a few track days per summer with it. I�m curious what advice would be. The owner doesn�t appear to be much of a car guy and it�s not been driven hard but also doesn�t appear to have any sort of maintenance done of schedule either. Which is to say he did the oil every 5k to 10k miles despite not driving much at all over the life of the car. there are a few minor issues to sort out but I am capable of handling them on my own, (recharge AC, O2 sensors, some interior flaws). Im well aware of the M96/7s list of flaws but im curious what owners takes would be on this car for this purpose at this stage of its life.

If you have a chance to get a used oil analysis on it, it will provide some insight into the condition of the engine.

My very first Porsche was a daily driver....I took it to work.....to the grocery store.....on dates......fishing.....bird hunting.....to trail heads over gravel roads....skiing...... then I bought a Ford F100 and since then, you can't get me out of a pickup....it hauls my stuff.....it pulls my stuff.....I can load it with gravel and mulch and firewood and dead and bloody animals and wet and muddy boys and labrador retrievers.... (unless their grandmother finds out they were riding in the truck bed).!!!! And I don't give a damn if it gets dirty or dented or scratched....as for age.....I am 85....and have a small collection of performance cars including a 997 Coupe with a manual....do your homework and buy a good one and enjoy it....you might consider a limited warranty for a couple years as they are expensive to repair....and a used one might have some problems you did not anticipate....

They�re great daily drivers. Mine does everything in all conditions, it�s my go to car every time. I wouldn�t hesitate

It's a big red flag for me if the owner isn't much of a "car guy." It means it hasn't really been cared for despite the oil changes or worse. It's 20+ year old Porsche with lots of parts that will need to be refreshed/replaced/upgraded. Those parts aren't cheap and labor for repairs just goes up. If you are an existing owner of a 996, then you know the drill to evaluate this. If you are not an existing owner, you should find someone who can evaluate the car for you and that may be a dealer or an indy shop. Be aware that there are people who will pretend to not be a "car guy" in order to lull you into thinking this may be an Easter egg, when they know otherwise. My rule of thumb is that there are no 911 that are essentially bullet proof for under $45K. If you buy this for less, count on spending the difference on repairs.

These cars are a bit like an iceberg. The issues you see are just the start. Any car that hasn't been driven much is going to have all kinds of hidden issues. With more than 20 years of service things made of plastic and rubber are likely to need replacement. That includes hoses and vacuum lines. Are they great cars? Yes, but they are old and full of surprises, just have a good slush fund for repairs. The engine and transaxle are the most expensive and probably exceed your purchase price, so get a comprehensive PPI. As for daily driving, a lot will depend on where you live and what you are willing to put up with. I have been daily driving my GT3 for just over 18 years here in Florida. Just have a spare car available when you are waiting for repairs or even just waiting for parts.

I�d hop on the deal if the price is right. Even better if the specifications are to your liking. One owner cars tend to be well taken care of.

Quotes source post: 19841854

I see you mention it's a 996.1, but what model year? Coupe or Cabriolet? C2 or C4? Here is the current value on a 996 coupe. Best advice I can give you is have a pre-purchase inspection on the car by a reputable Porsche shop in your area.

How cheap can you get the car? And how much money are you willing to spend on an ongoing basis for maintaining and fixing stuff? One thing to check is the carfax mileage history. If it's been driven 2 thousand miles every year for the past 25 years, that's ok... but if he put most of the miles in the first few years and then just left it sitting for the past 2 decades, prepare for all sorts of things to start breaking when you start it up

Well it�s pretty low in cost but there is some interior tears they need to be cleaned up. It has some codes for O2 sensors and the AC is undiagnosed as I said. Had some hail dings on the hood. I�m professional well of so anything that�s not a full engine redo isn�t a problem, short of being a hassle. seems like about 1000 miles a year. I�m intrigued but I don�t want to buy a car that�s just got too much old failing rubber and plastic that it will never end. It is a 99 C2 also. Seems like a 993 or 997.2 is really where the wise would go for a Porsche.

It depends. What are your goals regarding 911 ownership? I personally think the 1999 996 is a great car.

Quotes source post: 19844558

Whoooooa simmer down there sparky! I don't think "wise" and "Porsches" mix. I wouldn't hit so hard on the 996 especially around us seasoned owners. You forget the Mezger GT3 and GT2 was birthed out of the 996 generation and those engines are considered rock solid. The Carrera and Boxster M96 engines did have compromises that can be solved, but if you're worried about old rubber and plastic parts, then don't purchased any German sports car north of 20 years of age.

"You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself blow foam chunks out the vents." Even the 997 is getting into that stage of having "old car problems".

Quotes source post: 19844558

I found a similar car, 60k miles one owner for the past 11 years, 'not really a car guy', minimal service records, great price, off market. Did a PPI that found about 10k of work to be done. Used that as a bargaining chip to lower the price more and bought the car. Spent the 10k to fix up the car and now she runs great (AOS, Cam solenoid leak, coilpacks/plugs, IMS solution, fluid flush) The fact that you're mentioning O2 sensor codes should be a flag that there are likely other issues to be found. 996s are great cars as long as they don't have the catastrophic failure issues (IMS, severe bore scoring mostly). However they're still 20+ year old cars. Even though mine is currently running great, I could easily throw another 10k into her to get her fully optimized (refresh coilovers, Ball joints, motor and transmission mounts, rebuild transmission to smooth out the shifting, deep oil sump, UAOS, PCCM, upgrade exhaust, and more). If you love the 996 c2 specifically and the price and specs are right, get a PPI and fix her up and enjoy. If you've got 993 or 997.2 money and just want 'a Porsche', then maybe think a bit more about your use case. If I had that kind of money and wanted a DD 911, I would personally go for a 991 or maybe even a new 992.2 mostly for creature comforts, reliability, and PDK. If I wanted an investment, I'd buy a Toyota Corolla and put the rest in the market. If you want a raw feeling classic 911 for the driving experience, then 993 or 964 or 996 gt3. If you want a track weapon then maybe a Cayman gt4 is a better fit. Don't get me wrong - I think the 996 is a great car and I am still totally in love with mine, but if you can shop in a different price bracket, you might have better options out there unless you really know you want a 996 specifically.

Quotes source post: 19842674

Second this

Quotes source post: 19844558

Nothing wise about buying any 993, 997, 996, 991, 992, or any other Porsche model. They will all cost you alot of money in either a high purchase price, price depreciation, and/or in service/parts costs after the warranty ends to keep them running in top form. What's "wise" is to find the model that "clicks" the right boxes for you, so when you have to spend money on it to keep it running, you will gladly do it. You gotta like the way it looks and the way it handles and drives. If not, you did not make a "wise" choice. The "wisest" car decision I have made over the years was to buy, keep, service and enhance my 996.2 over the past 22 years. No other Porsche model has yet to "click all the boxes" that my 996.2 does.

Right, sorry fellas. Wasn�t meaning to insult the 996. I personally like that they are �simple� and I also think they�re good looking, atleast the exterior. The 991 rear end is a downgrade imo, and it�s also going through a �BMW� process of moving the car into the mass market. I understand that�s just business and what the older generation with money wants these days but the 996 has a lot of appeal to me because it looks good and has an old school approach. It just seems the M96/7s flaws vs performance create the main point of consideration. 296 hp when new is respectable, but it�s 25 years on. 360hp is also achievable very easily on a 235i that will have fewer problems. But we all know a 235i is really a commuter and a dime a dozen and 911 is something else. Also, a 996 C2 doesn�t have an LSD, it has Macpherson suspension up front, a poor sump set up, this particular one is a tip, which is merely fine, not horrible not great. The suspension is soft and understeers stock. It�s not a GT3 and doesn�t have a lot of nice appointments that an Audi S5 has. So I guess that�s what I mean. I like 996s and want to own one, but at some point the value in the market bs maintenance vs performance isn�t going to make sense. Allow me to rephrase my question. i know the car will likely need a few interior items replaced, AC charge at best, and O2 sensors at best, and I know that O2 sensors can lead to cat / fuel injector problems. What are the things that can go wrong with a 99 C2 that has had 1k miles per year that I do not know. In order words what are the unknown unknowns about this venture. And to phrase this more honestly, how much heat will I take from my wife as I own this thing? I would guess the IMS hasn�t been done, and my understanding is the double row isn�t high risk. So I�d probably have it done at some point medium term. Iunderstand most put a GT AOS in. I would put Ohlins and a new rear sway bar on to get rid of the floaty suspension. Lastly, this car is priced fairly for what it is. I could put $10k into it and be at market value. My concern is reliably getting around and reliably not making my wife angry with visits to the shop.

Quotes source post: 19845076

I would change your perspective. No car is an investment, and no cars market value will properly reflect refresh costs that you will need to put in it. Market value should only be used for the capital markets. Here is what its gonna cost you whether you like it or not. 1. Refresh engine parts to bullet proof the engine. For a 3.4 you are going to have a bunch of 5 chain service items that you won't have on the 3.6 w/ 3 chains. $10-15k 2. Refresh the suspension. $8-10k 3. Refresh the exhaust. $8-10 4. Things to make the interior and exterior pretty. $0-20k. btw, you will need to rebuild the LSD. I would recommend contacting Guard for a 996.2 or 996.1 to get the best internals. Add another couple of thousand to the amounts. But after you do the refresh, the car will not only look better than any Audi or BMW, it will handle better and be durable as he'll. not trying to talk you out if it. Instead, i am trying to level set your perspective. Don't waste your time thinking you can get into a 25 year old Porsche for cheap. Unless you want a cheap performing car. Which is OK if that's what you want. imho, everyone should experience the 996. It's an incredible car. But it's a 25 year old Porsche, so it will cost you whether you like it or not.

Quotes source post: 19845076

Your analysis and comments tell me that you don't love this car enough to buy it.

Quotes source post: 19845148

great insight thank you. Although I agree cars are not investments, cars are depreciating assets. a 996 isn�t really depreciating fast these days compared to a Panamera or 750i or M3 or run of the mill crossover. It�s worth considering in my opinion. You can easily lose $12k a year on any given new car these days and it�s worth factoring in that this 996 isn�t going to lose $12k in value for some time. In fact a new C2 costs $14k in depreciation the first year and is worth about $50k less after five years and that�s with a stripper and no options. I suppose the point is money is being lost in some form or another. And you can spend it on repairs or depreciation or both. The question is whether it is money well spent or not?

Quotes source post: 19845309

Agreed. The advantage that you have with a 996 is that it looks to be rising from the depreciation lows of a few years ago which does work to your favor. Nevertheless, if you buy the car for $25k, you will most likely pump in another $25-35k into it with refreshing parts over the next few years. All in, $50-60k for a well sorted 996 is a "wise" proposition if you like the car and its a keeper. More if you go hog wild with exterior and interior upgrades. But what else are you going to find for the same price that is comparable? Not much.

Quotes source post: 19845076

Bore score would be the big thing to check for before buying a car like that. Get it scoped in your PPI. As to the question about your wife, that's mostly up to your wife! Also the PPI should help answer that question to some extent, too.

Quotes source post: 19846454

a bit too late to PPI the wife!

Quotes source post: 19845076

A lot said above, but end of the day, what do you want the car for? Comparing a '99 C2 to a 235i doesn't make sense unless you want new tech and more power. The driving experience isn't relatable either, and the same goes for LSD, suspension, and the other things mentioned. Then early models with a double row IMSB isn't much to worry, and to update isn't terrible cost wise for a retrofit. Was daily driving most days during the nice weather months when lived in OH, and also routine trips from Cleveland to Detroit on weekends. Moved to SC and it's become a garage queen due to career change, but I'd drive it across the country and back (many times over) and not think twice about it. Has been more reliable than the 2016 Colorado had at the time as the true daily. IMO there's no wrong Porsche, 993, 996, 997. Get what you want and can afford, just make a decision that aligns with that and go for those with some documentation of maintenance. If it lacks or there isn't for certain things, say for bore scoring, have it scoped under a PPI. Groovzilla on the 997 side of the forum routinely shares experiences why this is important.

So in conclusion I should expect a five figure project to keep it on the road?

Quotes source post: 19847812

Depends who you ask, what condition car they bought / operate in, and how many / type of miles planning to tack on month to month (and conditions; track, grocery store, fun misc. driving). Only maintenance I've done is IMSB retro, clutch, and AOS when first bought for around $2,500 (guessing off top of head), and nothing else other routine oil changes, a battery, and a set of tires. All since 2017 and no problems to note other than the odometer display has burnt out and needs bulb replaced (and did replace climate control LCD which was easy and cheap).

Quotes source post: 19847812

If you get one that has been properly serviced and in great shape with documented fresh engine, suspension and exhaust parts, as well as an interior and exterior in proper shape, then it will be pretty inexpensive over the next 10 years because there isnt much refreshing you need to do. But you will have a higher entry point with the purchase price. Plenty of examples from guys that have been on Rennlist that have serviced the hell out of their cars and then decided to sell. You may pay 35-40k for a well sorted C2, but you have a C2 with $30k worth of work put into it. That's like buying a C2 for $5-10k. Or you buy one for $25k and then put the money into it and it will cost you $50k plus all in to get it into working order. For sure, you can cut that cost in half of you are a talented DIY guy. I would love to see everyone own a 996. But some guys really need a new middle priced car on warranty. No harm.

Quotes source post: 19847812

In short, yes. 10k+ is five figures, and you�ll eventually exceed that price if you keep the car long enough. Some parts are cheap, but higher quality ones (like track brake pads and better tires) can be spendy. The same goes for engine oil - where the recommendation is to use Driven DT40 for engine longevity. That goes for $180 for a case of 12 quarts. If you do your own work, you can save on labor, but you may need to buy some specialized tools for the job. I don�t know how much I�ve spent on my car over my ownership period of 5 years, but I�m pretty sure it�s well into five-figures. I do know that my 996 is very reliable and brings me joy when I drive it everyday. Overall, other cars don�t command my attention like my 996. Despite my opinion that the M96 engine is a POS (due to its many flaws), I can�t think of any other cars that would fit me better�. except the 996 GT3/GT2/Turbo, lol. (My anxiety with the M96 has been greatly relieved with the installation of the UAOS and UIDS.) But, you�re not me, and your values may be different from mine. So that�s why I ask what you want from your ownership experience, in order to determine whether you may like the 996.

Quotes source post: 19848085

I agree the M96 is a bit of a dud. It�s not like it�s not fun and I�ve seen them go get tracked and abused to 200k with no issue. However the reality is Porsche was on the brink of financial disaster and this engine doesn�t have a dry sump and suffers problems for it and it has some other bizarre issue that are likely just the result of a narrow budget and a target market that�s more casual than the Porsche customer of the prior era. Even a base Panamera has a dry sump for comparison. However, with that said the M96 is a known quantity and relatively simple. It�s got virtues. I�m used to putting gyrodisk and Pagid stuff on my cars. I don�t have concerns about that stuff. I�m also happy if I�m spending $2k or less per year without many �big ticket� repairs.

From first hand experience having tracked my 996 since 2004, the engine is durable as hell. However, just like any other street car that doesn't come from the factory as a race car, you gotta bolt certain things on it to make it track ready and durable. Easy to do. Just like it's easy to make it a dependable DD, which is your objective. As with every M96/M97 powered 911 and cayman/Boxter, all you have to do is buy one that has already been properly serviced and bullet proofed, which will cost you more up front but less over the next decade, or buy one that needs to be bullet proofed which will cost you less up front, but more over the next decade. Do it!

Quotes source post: 19845076

My wife likes a car that starts every time, requires only routine maintenance, and looks/sounds great. The 996 you're considering sounds like a drivable project car, which may not be ideal as a daily driver. As others have posted, the 996 was a great daily driver when new, but frankly it is 25 years old now so will need refurbishment on the same level as a 964 or 993. That's ok if you don't mind the shop time and parts expense. You could have fun doing these projects, but if it's your primary ride it might be more stress than reward. My 964 has been reliable, but it has needed some pricey HVAC parts replaced, and I did fuel lines out of caution. We daily drive a Cayenne. I believe the 964 could go cross country tomorrow, but only because my local tech is great and I have budget for Porsche parts. Values are good, but there's zero chance I'd make money on it if I ever sold... which is unlikely.

Quotes source post: 19848416

If you can do the work yourself and use your $2k budget solely for parts, then I think you�ll be able to manage this car. You may have to pay a little more than $2k upfront in order to address the maintenance that the previous owner was not aware about, like the water pump or a coolant expansion tank. I say go for it. Get a pre-purchase inspection for the car and scope the cylinders to check for bore scoring. Also have the camshaft deviation numbers checked during the PPI.

I bought a neglected 996.1 Tip a few years ago and LS swapped it and 6MT swapped at the same time. It had about 130k miles at the time. I don�t regret it but it definitely wasn�t cheap. I�m probably 50k into the car and rebuild. I did 99% of the work myself and would still recommend a 996.1 to people interested in a unique driving experience. Keep the M96 if you can and use the Tip until you�re tired of it and swap to a 6MT. It really isn�t hard to 6MT swap a 996.1. All the parts bolt to the car since all the necessary mounting parts are already there. I think you�ll still have to replace a ton of wear items no matter what and almost all seals will be shot if it was stored outside. Here�s a list of things I have replaced because they�re worn: Both seats (Recaros $3) stereo system (hacked/blownout by PO, $1.5k) All suspension bushings and arms ($2k) Coilovers (I did ohlins, $2.5k) Engine/drivetrain (LS swap $25k, I went nuts, you can just do AOS/IMS/O2s/tuneup for $3-6k) 6MT swap with LSD ($3-4k with 2nd gear detent and a good stage 2 clutch) Paint and body (mine was really really bad. I spent 50 hrs sanding and replacing panels plus wrapped the car. YMMV, $1k to $8k reasonably) headlights and other updated features for increased drivability and safety ($1k-3k) Wheels/tires (I did Fikse FM10s for $4k, YMMV) other misc things that pop up ($1k) Overall I think a 996 is an awesome DD especially with a LSD and good tires. Rear engine rwd is a good combo and very fun. You can tune the coilovers to suit driving style but they�re still pretty stiff. My car is more track oriented but still drive it as much as I can in decent weather and used it as a DD for a little while.

Appreciate the Great advice everyone

I love threads like these. My 01/98 C2 is the only car I own. I DIY 99% of the work, buy parts thru FCP Euro for their lifetime guarantee, and I drive it every day. Every morning, I take it to the beach where I run (the distance to the beach ensures it properly warms up and the oil reaches operating temp). Other than that, the car has given me no issues aside from a cracked bank 1 head last July, which has since been fixed for $8k. The PO cracked the front radiator pulling into a steep driveway, lost the coolant, then overheated it, and never mentioned it to me. That's my theory. Within the second week or so of me owning it the coolant light was flashing, and the exp tank cap was on so tight I had to use a set of vice grips to get it off. I think he overheated it, but didn't show symptoms and lasted a good while (~50,000 miles, and a trip across the country). He probably drove the thing low on coolant for a long time. Funny because I always smelled a hint of coolant when I had the car, then bam one day there was the milkshake and the car missed only when warm, a sign that the crack only expanded and showed symptoms when the car was warm. I still do not believe these cars crack because of design flaws. There is no design flaw. The flaw is in ownership and lack of knowledge of cars and how to properly care for one. The BMW world has more knowledgeable owners, but that's just my opinion. Anyways other than that, I change the oil every ~6-7k with LM synthoil premium 5w-40 and no additives. When the head was off, there were no signs of bore scoring either. These cars are not that difficult to work on and are very affordable if you buy one directly from the owner with a good documented history, and buy your parts thru FCP. Happy hunting and I hope you get to enjoy a 996.1, because it's an awesome car. I have thoroughly enjoyed mine. The problem is, we have owners that simply don't know what they're doing (and the worst part is they shout from the rooftops that it's the car's fault). It's not the car. Never has been. Edit - and yes to the points on tracking it, the only thing I would do is buy a uaos system, change the bellows tube (using snap clamps, not hose clamps), and change the oil. Other than that you are fine. I have never tracked mine, but it sees redline and 120+ mph daily, and it runs like a sewing machine.

Adding some data on a 996 daily driver. I bought my 2004 C4S nearly new in 2005 for $78k with 7k miles on it and then drove it daily until 2022. It has 106k miles on it now. Below are full stats on maintenance, tires, tools, upgrades, and repairs. I broke out "tires" separate from maintenance since they're a biggie and tools separately since I started buying more of them as I DIY'ed more. (The biggest tool purchases were the durametric in 2019 and the quickjack in 2022.) Maintenance includes annual services with oil change, batteries, brakes, clutch, wipers, other fluids, etc. I did the annual service at the dealer every year until 2019 when I moved bigger into DIY. Repairs is all unscheduled maintenance, big items are in the second table below. In 2009 I purchased a 6 year extended warranty for $3500 which probably saved me $10k in additional maintenance costs (repeated RMS fixes, SAI, wheel bearing, CV boots, etc.). Today you probably can't get an extended warranty since the cars are so old, but you can also pick up a well maintained car for way less than what I paid in 2005.

Quotes source post: 19855571

Good and accurate summary. More if you get the "upgrade" and "track" bug. But it will cost you to own any car in some way, shape or form. If one is honest with themselves, you will most likely blow more money on constantly trading in one sports car for another than it costs to keep a 996 running strong. But it still costs you regardless.

Yes

DD it like you stole it. You will get massive SPG (smiles per gallon).

Quotes source post: 19855601

this looks reasonable and manageable tbh

My rule of thumb...never add up your Porsche repair costs

My 99 996 is like an “economy car” compared to my cayenne 958TT. brakes and tires and gas per month are much less. The 996 is super fun to drive in good weather. no fun in the rain. i could drive the 958TT every day in any weather and be happy. but, I’d miss my 996! Jeff C.