Scoring/Cam Dev/Rebuild Time?

Follow up after 500 mile of Techron to clean up the carbon. It did a decent job of cleaning the carbon but that is the only good news. Cleaner cylinder walls in #6 now reveals scoring more so than the dark possibly carbon lines before. The scoring is on the top of the engine. 180 degrees above the oil that is pooling in the bottom of the cylinder. NOT IMPRESSED!! I guess I do not need to pull the motor to do the cam shaft guides as that is a fart in a hurricane at this point. A few pics for reference below....this is a 99 3.4L C4 Cab, 75000miles, I�ve had it for a little over a year and 2000 miles Now to figure out what to do. WIll reach out to LandN, Hartech and if anyone can recommend an Indy to contact in the Portland/Seattle area?? (I�m in between both). I don't see this being resolved for under $22-25k which is what I paid for the damn thing but she's a keeper so I'll have to make a choice. I think I'll drive and monitor for the winter. Just changed the oil, added ceratec and a magnetic plug. I need to keep an eye on cam deviations though...not sure how long I can really let that go. No CEL but bank 1 is at 7.8�. I know most say 6 is the limit for rebuild but is there an absolute stop point before CEL or damage? I�d like to drive some more before I take it off the road Again....2 thumbs down not impressed. Cyl 6 scoring in the top side of the borr Oil pooling Less carbon but more sadness Lol

Personally i would do the cam pads and just drive the car. I would say that half of the cars out there r this bad amd they just dont know. Ignorance is sometimes best. Your car is not going to impload from scoring.....bad oil pressure is where the risk of catastrophe starts.

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+1. Oil change every 3,000 and track UOA. Not a “rebuild”, cam pads…still engine out, but not super invasive. If you don’t know when water pump and thermostat were done, change those. You’ll want to do what you can to improve cooling for bank 2.

If that picture is the worst of the six holes, I would change oil, change the tensioner pads (that is a major job in itself), and drive the car until it coughs up blood. THEN, rebuild.

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Couldn't agree more. Thats just it, people freak out (saying full rebuild, etc.) not really knowing their car has the same issue. If it's not puffing oil, have issues, etc, I would say switch out the Cam pads and drive it. Does the exhaust tip have a bunch of soot on it? If not then don't worry about it.

Ok guys, you all made my morning with this. It seems I bit too hard on all the panic **** out here with the scoring. Cylinder 6 is the only cylinder with issues. 1-5 look totally clean. The reason I was thinking rebuild was if i'm going to drag the motor out to do the cam pads, I need to do the pump and thermostat too and then there is a giant question mark of whatever else breaks or is at the end of it's life...I think pretty much everything is 26 years old at this point. But if the consensus is that I can truck along with some repairs for a decent chunk of time then I would much rather do that. I do want to keep the car and bit by bit get it back to it's 1999 glory. No symptoms yet. No oil burning, ticking, smoking etc. Tested AOS and it was within spec. I didn't add a drop of oil during the last interval of 1500 miles and 1 year...BUT that was thicker 5w50 Mobil and I just put in Liquimoly 5W40 and some ceratec so that may change.... Appreciate all the thoughts!

Do the cam wear pads and the 4th and 5th chains. Test theVario-cam actuators and overhaul ( new o-rings ) if necessary. Replace water pump, install low temp thermostat and UAOS. This work can be done without removing the engine but it will take longer. It is much easier if you remove the engine. Check the clutch and the IMS bearing while you have the engine out. If it has the original IMS bearing, I would strongly recommend replacing it with the IMS Solution. The Solution is more expensive but it is a one time replacement that can be reused when the engine is rebuilt in the future. With this work now, you should get years of use out of the engine if you change the oil twice a year or every 3-5K miles using a good oil. Good luck. Mark

Even if the exhaust tips are sooty, that’s most likely an injector issue. Check your fuel trims to help alleviate the possibility of cylinder wash down.

Ripping off the bandaid! Using Bentley book.

did a smoke test for vacuum leaks before I yank the motor. This part was the only source of smoke and quite a bit of it. My understanding is this is a line to the break booster?? I removed the clip and raised the metal end pipe out of the elbow. The metal part of the pipe has some grooves and burrs on it but I�m not 100 % sure which part to replace�. The whole hose? Just the metal end to the hose? The elbow??

There�s an o-ring within the elbow that shows up as a vacuum leak at the clip. You can either replace the o-ring or the elbow.

Any tips on how to loosen the power steering lines? I figured out that it�s 15 mm and 19 mm wrenches but I can�t seem to maneuver them in the space enough to loosen the connections. Should I maybe get an extra few sets of wrenches and cut them in half so they�re smaller?

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I think you can earn some space by dropping the motor a bit. Put a 2x8 on a floor jack and support the motor under the sump. Loosen the motor mount nuts an inch and see if that gets you the room you need.

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thx for the tip, I�ll give it a go. Just got the hydraulic table today so I should be able to use that.

Also use good quality line wrenches. Regular open end wrenches can round over the fitting.

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great tip! Got them off with flare wrench on one and the socket attachment flare on the other one. Only destroyed one of my thumbs

the thing with assumptions is�.. I thought with the quick jack and the table that the car would be high enough and the engine low enough that I could roll the whole thing out�. I was wrong 😂😂 I will say however it�s now given me lots of room at least on the sides to do the cam pads�the rest I�m not sure about yet

Great success but what a PIA 😂

Did another smoke check with the motor out and quite a bit came out of this fuel injector port. The rail wasn�t bolted in, O ring broken. Injectors look a mess.

Good catch. Its a bit expensive but now is the time for a new set of injectors.

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for sure. Gonna get the UAOS, Starter and new injector set. RMS. Cam Pads. Getting expensive Lol

These MAY have reached the end of their service life 😂😂

While I�m not new to driving a clutch I�ve never repaired or replaced one etc. doesn�t look like much meat left and scoring on the back side. My assumption is replace but let me know please! Also the bolts for the flywheel are T50? (The one size I don�t have) Looks thin?? Scoring Is this a T50?? thanks for the input everyone, greatly appreciated

Keep all the mating surfaces clean and some of the bolts r 1 time use. Clutch disks r not that wide, maybe 10-12mm new? The friction material may only be 3-5mm. I like red locktight on the flywheel bolts and a little bit of blue on the pressure plate bolts. Here is a pic of my gt3 clutch. Its only about 10% done but the thowout bearing failed so i replace the friction disk. Measure the new one and do a little math to figure out the % used. I bought mine through fcpeuro and my replacement parts were free.

Whoever rounded out that T-50 (or T-55) flywheel bolt is a ham-fisted mechanic. 1. That green tip at the fuel injector is just a tip, not hugely important. You might be able to send the set to Mr. Injectors and have them all cleaned, tips replaced, and new orings. Or, you can buy new injectors. 2. The pressure plate is gone. That also means your clutch is likely gone too. Replace the whole clutch package, as well as a new pilot bearing. 3. The flywheel might need surfacing. Only you know for sure. The flywheel bolts are one-time used, replace them. Loctite is optional.

Wilco on the clutch. This flywheel surface has a groove in it�my guess is that�s a resurface then? Thx for the input on all of this. I�ll go buy a T50/55 and try and get this off

Buy a new flywheel. They r a dual mass unit and the internal springs can fail over time. Its not worth pulling the trans again to replace. I like these parts. It will give u eveything neww. https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/por...chs-k7024601kt https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/por...k-***-dmf024kt

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i got those and a grip of other things. Gonna get this all cleaned up and prepped for all the parts to arrive over the next week or so. Goal is to get it back in the road by thanksgiving 🤞🏻 thanks all!

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🤘🏻🤘🏻

Another perhaps silly question� When I pull the camshaft covers off to do cam pads, if I do so without breaking the spark plug tubes, are they reusable? They have been replaced since new and are in fine condition with no leaks. I think I�m just trying to stop sending all my money to FCP Euro this week, my goodness�.

I would recommend changing at least the sparkplug tubes o-ring seals at both end of each tube.

Finally installing new parts�.way more fun than going the other way Lol

I bought the big set of camshaft locking tools etc to do the cam pad job. The cam locking tool in the kit fits into bank 2 no problem but doesn�t fit in the space for bank 1. it seems I need a smaller version of the locking tool�however all of the smaller tools all seem to say they are for the 3.6. (Mine is 3.4 - 5 chain). Can someone confirm or correct me that the 4170 tool will fit bank 1 of an M96/01?? thanks! This is the tool I have that is too big to get into the gap for bank1

That is the correct tool. You just have not figured out how to use it. Mount the tool to the head using the M8 bolt. You line up the exhaust cam so the slot is up and down, fit the knobby part of the tool that has a thin slat into the cam slot. Wiggle the swinging arm so that the upper end fits into the hole in the head / cam cover. Tighten all the nuts down. Now your cams are in the correct position. That is one complicated tool.

I�ll give it another go. It just seemed that the bracket for the exhaust etc wasn�t allowing me clearance to install the tool.

This is quite the undertaking. Many mistakes and missteps so far. This morning was fun when the engine slipped off the cart as I tried to drain the oil that I didn�t drain before dropping the engine 🤦🏻‍♂️😂 but I am hoping I�ve turned the corner. Many parts and tools arriving. Finally got bank 1 open today. I�ve pulled and strained muscles I didn�t know existed and I�ve made up some new swear words to describe the Germans that designed this car. I know Understand the $11k someone was just quoted for the cam pad job and I�m replacing much more than that �Yeah, let�s hide this bolt behind a bunch of other things that otherwise wouldn�t need to be touched�

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Disregard, apologies

its always this difficult the first time. Take your time and stay organised and it will work out.

Bank 1

Not knowing your procedure, this comment may be off base but I will throw it out there. The picture where you show the timing tool and the head.... that holding tool should never be used by itself like that. It should always be installed AFTER the cam shafts hold-out tools are on the head. Good luck with your project. Engine out is the right approach for first time DIY job of this magnitude.

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the hold down tool was installed right after I snapped this pic when I took the cover off. I was just using the other tool to hold the cams at TDC while pulling apart. I appreciate you saying something though as I�m sure I have and will continue to make errors!

There is a separate hold-out tool for the cam ends. The two brassy zynch plated ones shown in your picture of the tool way above. The process is. 1. Start with the cam cover on 2. Install one of that brassy cam-ends hold down tool. 3. Remove the valve cover 4. Install the one Aluminum cam hold down tool over the cam shafts 5. Remove the cam-end hold down tool, install the sophisticated timing tool to find the correct position. Reverse the process. The first thing to remove is the sophisticated cam timing tool.

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OK, I now understand. For some reason I was under the impression, incorrectly, that I needed the cams at TDC when I get them out, but really this is just to hold them in place and then I will use the other tool to time the cams the reinstallation process. thanks so much for reaching out.

I�m a little confused (shocking) as I�ve now read conflicting information�after cam cover is back installed , special cam tdc align tool installed and tightening the exhaust cam sprocket end bolts down to set the timing, it looks like the tensioners are installed for this step. This is correct? Ive read some posts that say tighten the bolts down with the tensioners out still and I see a video of JR and PCA when the tensioners are installed at this step. thanks for any clarification

Disregard above post

Filler Bank 2 wear. All back together now, just waiting on new exhaust cam sprocket bolts and final timing / torque . All new exhaust head bolts and these replacing too. Most of these snapped. Fortunately got the head bolts out without snapping. Slow and steady but getting there. Getting the exhaust off was required for bank 2 but also getting off bank 1 made room for water pump and thermostat on the cart.

Where the heck does this gasket go?? I don�t see it in any diagram and when I pulled the trans out there wasn�t anything like this in there. ?? ??

Figured it out. I ended up googling the 997 updated fork and found the diagrams

Car is back together and running well so far. Cam deviation went from 7.7 and 2.7 down to 2.1 and 1.7. I�m wondering why that would be? Also both sides were pretty well trashed and even wear so I�m wondering if maybe the values shown may not be totally accurate. Also I did a scan and got a code for the check engine light P0650. Sure enough the light doesn�t come on . Doing a quick google it sounds like I need to chase down wiring but does anyone have any initial thoughts or diagnostics that could help me out? Perhaps start with the bulb? That would be too easy Lol thanks again for the input everyone. Excited about being back on the road

The cam # dropping much more in one bank is normal. There is also wear in the chain and gear so perfect is within the range. Yours look good. Not sure in the light....the plugs on the back of the cluster r known to fall apart but recheck your repair work first.

Just a bulb! Although now I don�t know if my wiper fluid is low 😂😂

One thing I�m noticing is how amazingly easy and smooth the clutch feels now with a new clutch and all new hardware back there. There does seem to be at the very top of the pedal a little bit of a clunk now. I�ve read up on this and it sounds like it�s the clutch Assist spring. When I initially push down on the pedal, there was a tiny bit of a bump and then it�s super smooth from then on out and same when I release. Smooth all the way up until the very top and a bump.I see that some people are removing the spring, some people accept the bump. What are your guys thoughts? Should I perhaps replace the spring and it�ll be a little less clunky?

Thought I would do a follow up for anyone in the future to do the same job, what I ended up doing, what I didn�t expect and cost of the project etc. Everything below has been done before and there is a ton of info and resources on this site and others. Started off with a tuneup: coils, plugs, oil, filter etc. Borescope through the cylinder holes (gasp! I tried the other way �ridiculous! Lol). Cyl 6 had the early stages of scoring and lots of carbon. Checked fuel trims etc to see how they looked and came across my cam deviations being out of spec on both sides. So after opinion shopping on this site I came to the conclusion that it�s about extending the life of this motor and trying to mitigate the scoring issue as best as I could. Again, LN and lots of sources on how to slow down the scoring once it starts. The cam pads are about $60 depending on the day and the vendor. All in I was about $5000 deep when all was said and done and I did all the work myself. I used the Bentley Book and some youtube videos as guides. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmXbkJlkRww&t=11s watch parts 1 thru 4 over and over is my recommendation. Quick Jack with truck lift spacers to get the car high enough. Hydraulic Cart from Amazon as well as many miscellaneous tools that are needed for the job. Pulled the motor and trans and the following were either fully broken, partially broken or due to be replaced. -Clutch, Flywheel and Hardware inside the bell housing -Starter (SEG) -Water Pump/Low Temp Thermostat -Coolant Reservoir/Cap (good lord that was expensive) -Belts and Belt Guides -Spark Tube Gaskets -Oil Pump Seals -Coolant (Porsche) -Head plugs -Fuel Injectors (Leaking/Damaged)(Bosch) -Intake Manifold Adapter (leaking) -Exhaust hardware kit -Various seals and gaskets -Porsche special tool for compressing the cam solenoids -Cam hold down tool set (Chinese one with some sanding of a few parts to fit) -Cam to Cam Chains -Cam Sprocket Bolts -Airlift Coolant Filler (this thing was awesome, first time using) -Oil and Filter (DON�T FORGET TO DRAIN BEFORE STARTING THIS JOB OR YOU WILL LOOK LIKE A DUMB A$$ like ME trying to drain the oil when the motor is on the cart, then the engine will fall off the cart and many swearings will happen) The Bentley Book is pretty good as well as the PCA/Jake Raby Vids. I watched and read through the whole procedure many many times. Part of the PCA vids showed a giant table of �stuff you should change while you are in there�. I must say, at first, I thought it was kind of BS. There is no way ALL that stuff needs to be replaced. Fear mongering! Well�.I was wrong for the 10,000th time. I bought a LOT of that stuff it turns out. Trust the experts and the knowledge base on these cars. 26 year old stuff that wasn�t properly maintained or repaired in my case and a lot needed to be replaced. The only �big� ticket item that I did not replace was my AOS. A few reasons. One: I thought I was going to spend a few hundred dollars on tools and some cam pads and went WAY over budget. Two: I tested it and it tested perfect with the Manometer test before I yanked the motor. Three: I�m almost positive it has been done due the condition and that the pipes still had hang tags from purchase etc. I also opted to leave the IMS as it had been done about 25,000 miles ago and knowing at some point I need a full rebuild I left it. (Note: This motor did come out about 10 years ago at a shop under the PO and got the IMS done and head gaskets. This shop did a poor job of reassembly like not bolting the fuel rail down, chewed up the IMS main stud threads and didn�t change out the cam pads when they were in there which they should have past 50000 miles.) All in all, nothing was particularly difficult with the job. It�s time consuming and very tedious. I did it bit by bit over 6 weeks, half of which I was traveling. A few trips to the hardware store and a handful of purchases from FCP/Pelican/Amazon/Ebay. I did the entire job by myself with the exception of having my wife hold the hydraulic cart in place while I got the engine back on it after it fell off Lol. I found that pretty much everything I came across, every struggle etc was very common and most folks on here had experienced. Best part of the cars age is the immense knowledge base and I am very grateful to the folks that chimed in. Hope this helps the next guy or gal and happy if anyone want to reach out with a question I may be able to help with but there are folks far more knowledgeable on here! After a spirited drive yesterday I checked my cam deviations and they are sitting at 2.4 degrees each, fuel trims look good and runs well. Starter is nice too, no more horrible screeching after start. As I said earlier this was about $5000 diy. In the PNW at the end of 2025 I don�t think it would be outrageous to say that if I had a shop do all of that I would be knocking on the door of $20k, almost exceeding the value of the vehicle. The cars are cheap to buy and expensive to own! Enjoy all!

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OMG I am picturing this and roaring! With you -- I'm laughing WITH you! Thanks for putting this together. And major props for doing it all yourself.

"Cheap to buy and expensive to own" Amen.

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Great job !!! good list of engine out maintenance items. I need to do almost the exact same. will include 3 more items, a actuator rebuild once I already have them in my hand to change out the pads. & a UAOS and all its hoses/connectors & a new oil fill tube. Quote: Been there done that, but on other type engines long long time ago. Lucky for me,, had an engine hoist come to my rescue. Trying to imagine how you did drain the oil without an engine hoist, images come to mind, lol,, is your lift cart will lubricated... lol

�Trying to imagine how you did drain the oil without an engine hoist, images come to mind, lol,, is your lift cart will lubricated... lol� my genius plan was to carefully slide the engine sideways on the cart to reveal the drain plug and support the engine head with a jack and wooden block�.what I didn�t factor in was the cart being sufficiently lubricated by many coolants and fluids that had spilled onto it. Slip. Crash. Regret 😂😂😂 ended up shimmying the motor back into the air on stacks of 2x4 on either side. Drained the oil. Then called my wife for assistance keeping the cart in place while I shoved the motor back on 😂 glad to get a chuckle from you guys!

All kidding aside, you should own an engine hoist.

fantastic job! thx for sharing