Gas Monkey LS Powered 911

Anyone tuning in tonight to catch Fast N Loud build a LS powered 911? Been done many times but I am curious to see what Aaron comes up with. Believe it's 996 bodied car.

I'll record it and watch later. I really do like the show, and you can catch a nice green 911 in the background sometimes.

I'm watching it now. I think I'll be turning the sound off. These guys sound like a bunch of ****-ant whiners. Like most car shows, the tech stuff is non-existent, and it's all about the face time of the people in the show.

3 weeks and $20k to do the job. Not including labor. Doubt it.

Haha love the $11k non-fitting 997 conversion Oh and those bolt on fender flares are sweet!

its not to my taste, like all of the GasM cars

I'm watching the hack monkeys now... Mike

Hated the 997 conversion and wheels, but it looked fast.

Yeah.. They called here looking for an engine for free before they did the LS.. Learned my lesson with these TV people a decade ago. No way! That 996 was a 2000, it had Y2K syndrome, not a "bad head gasket"!!! Shows are such a joke.

Ooo they did a 996! Im not a huge fan of their cars but they do make an entertaining show ​​

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Y2K Syndrome?

Ugh, sounds bad and I haven't watched it yet.

I just caught the end of the show... Eh...

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Jake, As a television production manager with more than 20 years of experience, three types of people approach me about doing projects - 1. Don't have a lot of money and upfront about their limited budget or, 2. Tell us what they'd like to produce and are willing to pay a fair price to accomplish it. 3. Have tons of money, but aren't willing to admit it and push for freebies I'd rather work with person #1 and #2 all day. Most of them are very humble, kind people that are honest up front and thankful for what we're willing to offer and usually more than happy with the results. However, the third type of person is one that has deep pockets, cloud 9 expectations, and love to manipulate for their own benefit. The proverbial "tightwad". It's not uncommon for these types to try to convince us that it would be financially beneficial to have our names on the credit roll associated with their group and/or on-camera talent. Therefore, they'd say we should take the project on pro bono just for the experience. Those people are almost always the first to complain and the last to show appreciation. For example, we were asked to conduct a TelePromper recording session of President Carter in Atlanta. The group first was wanting us to consider doing it for free just because it was "The President" and it would look good on our vita. I told them tactfully that my family's worst ever vote was for President Carter. Nuff said. They ended up paying us. Regarding production groups that represent big wig talent like Richard Rawlings and the Monkey group. No doubt he's an entertaining type of guy that has become very popular in the auto world, but give me a break! Folks trust me... there is nothing "real" about reality TV... it should be called "Scripted Reality". All of the shows are planned and scripted from start to finish and mostly funded by brand placement. The networks (i.e. Discovery) get most of their money from commercials and usually give the top dogs (i.e. Richard Rawlings) a contracted fee for each episode. It's the production companies that create shows for the networks that look for ways to cut costs via brand placement and barter deals. Ask yourself how many times have you seen a show with humble, simple beginnings turn into a commercial nightmare where every scene has some form of "brand placement". The worst in recent history is ABC's Extreme Home Makeover. They had brand placement contracts with everyone! And I'm sure no one on the set had to pay for any of the appliances, furnishings, or even the raw building materials. Heck, even all the builders were volunteer and they'd usually always give away a Ford vehicle and pay off the owner's mortgage. It was a good show in the beginning, but it turned into a commercial circus.

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Its a 2000 with intermix. It has a cracked cylinder head. This happens so often that I coined the term Y2K Syndrome for Mode Of Failure #6. As far as the TV shows go, well I was an idiot. I fell for it. It was back in 2007 for the Speed Channel. We built a car from scratch in 3 weeks... Including the engine and transaxle. We drove cross country to haul it to the site where we'd be competing against other cars... At 0600 on the morning of the filming, all the rules changed... Suddenly the producers realized that no one played by the rules that they set forth, (except us!) and then what do they do? Change the rules! Now, the rules are against us, instead of for us. It was a HUGE Clusterf**k and was an organizational disaster. The show producers were complete idiots, and liars. What I realized after that was these shows use people that want to be on TV as a source for all of their content. They take advantage of this, and they USE people like rag dolls. If anyone ever asks you to be on TV for a show like this, go ahead and slap them.

Thought it might be interesting because I once considered a 996 with a v8 conversion, but nothing was really shown except screwing around with the "997" fender and bumper swap. In the end, the v8 swap car drag raced Richards 2016 911 turbo s, it looked closer than I would have imagined. Any thoughts on how "realistic" the race was?

The shows are intended to be entertainment, and not technical run-through of the job. In that respect, I found it mildly entertaining, but was prepared to be disappointed about the build info on the V8 conversion. It was as I expected. Clip of a guy uncrating engine, clip of guy uncrating conversion plate, clip of guy bolting plate to engine, three clips of guys fitting engine and trans into engine bay, clip of guy connecting wires. Well, here we go, it runs! So, about as expected. I also find it interested that he always, always comes out on top in every transaction. Now, I've watched a few chasing classic cars with Carini and the reality there is a lot more grounded. You don't always make money on every deal. That's life, because if you never were upside down on a car, you haven't really risked anything. I would say the money spent on the 996 including all the time, paint booth, nick-nacks, trim, Porsche parts for anyone else would come up well over $50k. And finding a dad with deep pockets to buy the car for his kid? Where does that come along, once in a lifetime? If he made $500 on that deal all-in, all-out I would be very surprised. I did have a drool-fest over the Mustangs. Now that looks like a bunch of very unique and valuable cars, but he didn't bother to restore any of them in this show. Maybe later one will get the treatment. Many years ago, back when I was involved with Cord cars I spent some time with Jay Leno when he bought his Cord. I was one of the few car owners in SoCal at the time with a Cord and we chatted about maintenance and how to drive the thing with pre-selector shifting. Since he was already raking it in, he was pretty easy going. His garage series are a lot more fun than what passes for these shows which I will call ego-trips, or a game of one-up-man-ship.

Yep Jake is right about "the slap". Another recent example. (bare in mind I got this story after the fact) My wife's uncle owns a lot of land in Banks County Georgia. A so called "CBS reality TV production crew" got him to agree to allow them live on his land for the entire summer to supposedly shoot scenes for their show. They claimed to be shooting a survivor type of show. My wife's uncle was so open and welcoming to these "young producers" that he allowed them all of his property's resources including letting them stay in his house, camping out, food, storage, using whatever they found, etc. etc. etc. After the producers left his land, he came to my house (knowing I was a production manager) to tell me about his experience with these people. He would get so excited thinking about being on CBS television. I was like... show me the contact from CBS. He didn't have one because it was highly secretive and they (producers) couldn't risk letting the story get out. Ugggh!!! (facepalm) I didn't have the heart to tell him it wouldn't happen, but I plan to let him know when the show doesn't air when the so called "CBS producers" promised. It's a shame they took advantage of an decent honest man. He's an old school hard working man that believes that a hand shake is as good as any written contract. Unfortunately, he's unwise to the new generation of thievery. Such a shame. More than likely, it was a group of college students producing a pilot to present for network consideration. Good luck with that!

While I agree with almost all the comments here, especially Jake's, Rawlings does lose money on deals quite often. In fact, I am surprised they make money at all from the deals. I expect their money comes from all the other stuff like the restaurant, the TV contracts etc.

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Because it's "Scripted Reality TV", you can't really believe anything to 100%. The producers can make it look closer than it really was. No doubt, it's an entertaining show, but that's the point! Make it entertaining. The whole premise behind the "Porvette" was to show that it could be done but all with all the normal drawbacks. What you wanna bet the kid/dad duo in the end didn't really pay for the car at the amount that was agreed? Maybe they did or maybe they didn't.

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Rawlings is the star... and he makes the show. I'm pretty sure he's not hurting for money at all... prolly sleeps and baths in it. Maybe even wipes his butt with it as well. eeeek!

When they figure out how much money they made on a car... does that include labor? I sometimes wince when I see someone on their show pay $150k for a pick up truck... that wouldn't sell for $60k on the open market... The basic formula seems to always be, "Ask twice what I have into it, and hope some sucker bites on the deal." Still love Wheeler Dealers . Good honest fun, where they lose money on each and every single car but refuse to admit it. Unless Ed is working for 0.25$ an hour

It is enteratinement and I enjoyed it. But the money thrown around has to be fake - but who cares. There was an episode where her charged the guys of a comic museum a bunch of money for a car that was in iron man. Went to the museum website and they made a comment about it being a donation.

I was not very impressed with the build but again had to remind myself they are doing it in 3 weeks and German automotive is not their specialty which clearly showed. As far as the roll-on race at the end it was no surprise the turbo walked away on the top end. The gearing and trans in that 996 was maxed out and no LSD. Even if it would have won Richards ego would never let the episode show that..

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It has been my experience through many long years that the ones that crow about the money they're making or have, are those that often struggle along, mostly show ponies. There's a funny saying I learned in SoCal real estate. The RE agent calls the star of a new show with news on buying a home; "Honey, I've got good news and bad news. The good news is that I can get you that 3500 sqft Beverly place for 2 mil. The bad news is that you gotta come up with 100 thousand now."

I liked that the car had the same wheels that mine had.

Fast and Loud is fun to watch when Richard and his buddy Dennis (the one who is actually wealthy; he bought the F50 Richard repaired and painted black) are drunk at auctions burning money on **** cars (and watching their own cars sell for less than they wanted after pulling the reserve in a failed attempt to generate bids). Building a brand with a $15MM net worth is impressive, regardless of how you feel about the guy. I wonder how much he's earning with each "beer assistant" product placement plug.

Discovery Channel, Rawlings earns US$50,000 per episode and has a net worth of approximately US$15 million. Didn't realize he was making that much coin off the show.

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And prolly pays his staff (aside from Aaron) normal salaries. But he makes it up in other areas obviously. Brand placement is eating up his shop... just look around at the banners. That's where he makes easy money.

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Jake, I would die to see you on Velocity, with a show on your own, about Porsche rebuilds.

Yeah, because the producer who asks him to do the same thing 8 times to get the shot just right absolutely wouldn't wind up with a .45 in the chest...

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Someone walk me through the math... He makes $50k an episode... $600k a year... Peanuts after taxes/agent fees, etc. He builds cars, where it looks like he doesn't make a lot of money... He has a dragster that loses money... He has a monster truck that loses money... He has a restaurant that loses money... So, how does he make his money exactly? Does he make it selling cars? I don't see any branded merchandise being sold in stores... How do you get to 15mm? Kind of makes me wonder what the Side kick Aaron is worth...

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Pics?

Hell No! The first day one of those TV clowns would **** me off, and I'd end up in jail. I watch maybe 10 minutes of TV a week. I went so long without turning it on that the satellite box had to be reset. I have enough drama and adversity dealing with business, development, and people, I don't need to watch that crap on TV! I have constructive things to do, like teaching my 4 year old what she'll need to survive in the real world. B3Freak, Those same people contacted us about using some land in White County for their show. Based on my prior experience, we told them to go to hell. Looks like it was a wise decision! The show would be R rated anyway, and we'd shoot big guns, and blow things up. A good example is this M96 that pissed me off a few weeks ago. Not much left, and it will never punish anyone, ever again! I found one cylinder head almost 100 yards away, half of the block was embedded 40' up an oak tree.

C'mon, nothing that a little Crazy Glue, smoke and mirrors can't fix.

Amazon returns nearly 1,500 results for the search term "gas monkey garage," so SOMEBODY is making and selling swag. Assuming at least some of it is legally licensed, that's revenue coming in for every item. Rawlings is riding the wave of popularity, like the Duck Dynasty folks did before. Assuming he doesn't do anything to screw up the show (like Honey Boo Boo's mom), the register will keep ringing. They even came out with some god-awful Fireball-like liquor - I think it was cinnamon tequila. I'm not a Richard fan, but the guy was obsessed with getting the brand publicized from early on in the show - he's now reaping the rewards of that work making the brand recognizable. As an aside, assuming the $15MM is net worth including the garage, the restaurant, his car collection, and anything else that is tangible personal property, you can get to $15MM pretty quickly. There are plenty of paper millionaires who couldn't raise $50K if they had to. I'm not suggesting Rawlings is one of those, but there's an enormous difference between being worth $15MM and having $15MM in liquid assets.

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A) Trust fund B) Drugs C) Medicaid/medicare/fedguv con D) Good friend of Clinton

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Binary explosive, black powder, or other? Fun stuff. There are not many things I miss about Texas; being able to blow stuff up and shoot all day without a visit from the SWAT team is one of 'em.

[QUOTE=Flat6 Innovations;13700139]Hell No! The first day one of those TV clowns would **** me off, and I'd end up in jail. I watch maybe 10 minutes of TV a week. I went so long without turning it on that the satellite box had to be reset. I have enough drama and adversity dealing with business, development, and people, I don't need to watch that crap on TV! I have constructive things to do, like teaching my 4 year old what she'll need to survive in the real world. B3Freak, Those same people contacted us about using some land in White County for their show. Based on my prior experience, we told them to go to hell. Looks like it was a wise decision! The show would be R rated anyway, and we'd shoot big guns, and blow things up. A good example is this M96 that pissed me off a few weeks ago. Not much left, and it will never punish anyone, ever again! I found one cylinder head almost 100 yards away, half of the block was embedded 40' up an oak tree.[QUOTE=Flat6 Innovations;13700140] Hahaha. Hey, I am in the same category coming close to get rid of TV altogether. Now, in all seriousness, you should consider this. Me, I am obsessed with cars but find Velocity almost unwatchable, it’s like rednecks rule the World: Dallas Car Sharks, Junkyard Empire and all that #@%. It is depressing and annoying. The only shows I found tolerable are “Chasing Classic Cars” (for the occasional old 356’s ), “How it’s Made - Dream Cars” and …pretty much that’s it. And “Wheeler Dealers” (Edd China is great, Mike Brewer is a clown imho) but their shows too got a little weird since they moved the operation to the US. Speaking of “Wheeler Dealers”, you should start your own show by hiring their cameraman & crew.

NO WAY! Hell, as it is I just want to be in the middle of a 50 acre field working all alone...The whole "image" thing to me seems like nonsense. I don't even want to put my name on my own book!

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Hahaha. Hey, I am in the same category coming close to get rid of TV altogether. Me, I am obsessed with cars but find Velocity almost unwatchable, it�s like rednecks rule the World: Dallas Car Sharks, Junkyard Empire and all that #@%. It is depressing and annoying. The only shows I found tolerable are �Chasing Classic Cars� (for the occasional old 356�s ), �How it�s Made - Dream Cars� and �pretty much that�s it. And �Wheeler Dealers� (Edd China is great, Mike Brewer is a clown imho) but their shows too got a little weird since they moved the operation to the US. Speaking of �Wheeler Dealers�, you should start your own show by hiring their cameraman & crew.

Well, I do watch some of the shows for fun. People need to look at them merely as entertainment unless it is a true documentary and even then be skeptical. I've done some consulting and helped with parts for the Dung Beetle on Street Outlaws.........Trust me.......it's merely entertainment for the car guy. No more....No less........The few races early on that occurred on a public street with on coming traffic got the producer fired. Everything now is in a controlled environment. Tke TV with a grain of salt.......

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Well said Sir. I watch to be entertained. If I want to see dirt and grease, I go to my garage LOL!!

I actually like Richard from what I've seen on the show, I actually wouldn't watch it if it wasn't for him haha. As for his assets no idea, but as many people have said product placement I'd say it plays a big part. I also think he commands a premium because he's build his brand well and people will pay for something his shop has made. One does need to remind themselves of the TV glitz the show does have though compared to others. Wheeler dealers is and always will be my favourite car show though.

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LOL!!!

Good times

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Chanel just hit a homerun with this comment. He is spot on! These stars not only bring in tons of money with brand placement in their shops and network contracts, but when they become international celebrities, they get to make millions of $$ more off merchandizing. Heck, my own children wanted Duck Dynasty bobbleheads for Christmas a few years back... and my wife bought me one of those Si Robertson "tea glass" plastic cups too. Yikes... it's even affect me!

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It's Orange County Choppers all over again... What amazes me is that so many people need to be "entertained" so badly that they can follow a person, or group of people this far. Its really pretty sad.

Here's a recap http://www.drivingline.com/articles/...rednecks-ride/

One other thing... They paid way too much for the broken car to begin with... About 2X what it was really worth in the broken state that it was in.. Certainly not a "steal"!

I'm wondering where they got the all red tails at? Unless they do a badass job with tail lense spray.

kinda puts them in the same boat as Wicked...

While watching this episode, and shaking my head the whole time, I still cant understand why anyone would want to squeeze a Chevy V-8 into the rear end of a German car. Is it even practical from a future servicing of the engine perspective (i.e. can you even get to the oil filter without dropping the engine?). Additionally, what does the Chevy V-8 do to the weight balance and handling. I was disappointed, but not surprised that the "race" at the end of the episode was only straight line, despite having an entire runway. Aaron and Richard appear to be accomplished drivers but, once more, this is only entertainment TV...

An all aluminium SBC is lighter than you think and basic servicing it is not much different than the flat six engine.

SBC? I guessed I missed the mention of the V8 being aluminum. Even if the V8 is an aluminum block isn't it still heavy enough to shift the front to back ratio from the 40/60 stock form? The manufacturer of the body kit that didn't fit was conspicuously missing from the episode. My theory on this episode's "build it and hope someone buys it" format is that the buyer and his barely old enough to shave kid were the original clients in the first place and the race was just contrived for the entertainment value.

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I noticed that too. I think the body kit vendor did it right. they made the Gas people buy it retail, just like anyone else. They got their money up front and passed on the product placement. So, smart body kit people, but not fitting was just some gravy tossed in by the crew to throw shade at the kit people for not 'giving' or providing the kit for free. I'm sure if they had gone with the product promo, it would have fit perfectly.

An aluminum LS is nearly 100 pounds lighter than an M96.

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All of the "cons" people list for the LS swap are typically BS. A small-block V8 can be built to be light and have a very low c/g; those who say it can't have never looked under the hood of a Corvette and realized just how tight the packaging can be and how low the V8 sits relative to the front tires. The biggest "con" is that unless you do the job yourself or you know someone *cough* *whiteout* *cough* who has done it before, you're going to wind up with a Frankenporsche that is worth less than the combined value of the roller, the V8, and all of the parts (i.e. electric water pump) you have to buy to make it work. Having the Gas Monkey license plate frame will help with the value for at least a couple of years. Summit sells filter relocation kits starting at $43. The one plus side to using a small-block V8 is the astonishing array of aftermarket parts and upgrades out there...

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*shrug* People like to watch other people doing stuff they wish they could do. Hence: car shows, shows about rich people, and ****.

I have to admit that owning a car and also having a copy of the TV show where it was built would be pretty cool. That being said, many of the GMG cars are not to my taste, but it looks like Aaron tries to do them right mechanically. I can appreciate that.

Richard seems a little smarter than OCC. I don't think he is going to go that way. Too diversified.

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But trying to squeeze a V8 ( �albeit not a Chevy, that is heresy) into a 911 rear end is not a new idea. RUF has built a V8 from scratch for their RGT model. The rumor has it Porsche AG was considering doing the same but has abandoned the idea.

That V-8 looks a lot better than the GMG one. A V-8 that is purposefully built to be installed into the 996 I can understand. It is a deliberate effort. The GMG effort, although they had adapters and so forth, seemed like an experiment. But, hey, they did it and sold it on, so good on 'em.

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hahahahah! The GM ls series motors are hands down some of the best motors ever produced, and with no question are better than any motor Porsche ever even thought about

"and with no question are better than any motor Porsche ever even thought about" Knowing what someone else is thinking is exceptional and uncommon insight. hahahaha

I wouldn't necessarily say that the LS is the best motor ever designed, but the pushrod design, although much maligned by the DOHC community, allows for some useful geometry. Example: Using the area between cylinder banks for camshafts and pushrods means the engine package doesn't need to be as tall as many overhead cam designs. In applications (like the Corvette) where there needs to be both adequate ground clearance and a low c/g, this works very well. Raise the limiter on an LS3 engine from 6600 to 8200RPM and run it that way for a bit...then come back and explain how it is superior in every way to a Porsche engine. Your apple is neither better nor worse than my orange; just different.

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.. good for up to 8200 rpm and the engine sound is absolutely sublime. Check out this video showing the prototype: You Tube Of course the GMG attempt was more of a joke, for "entertainment", got that.

you guys kill me. they did a hell of a job. "shaking my head the whole time while watching". um, ok

There are Porsche purists that enjoy high-performance, and there are high-performance enthusiasts that happen to drive a Porsche. I love my Porsche, but if one thousand hamsters on a treadmill made the car go better, I'd be breeding them right now in preparation for the treadmill swap. The RUF mill, although a beautiful piece that appears to work well, is still unobtanium. And, sure, a dohc, 4 valve design is a high rpm monster, but what you're looking at us still a six figure (deep sixes) engine. It may as well not even exist when it comes down to wanting one for yourself. The GM LS series are proven high-performance engines with a vast aftermarket support system with tried and true high-performance combinations (cam/heads/compression/intake/exhaust/injector size/tune, etc.) that leaves little room for error. The recipes for your target horsepower desire are out there. There aren't many secrets in the LS enthusiast community. Guys are eager to share what works best with others that are curious. The LS mills are also proven in terms of longevity, since being first released in the 97' C5 Corvettes. And the best part? A relatively low dollar per horsepower ratio. And the low-end torque will keep you in smiles that our 996's are incapable of with the M96. Go ahead and build an approximately 500HP/500tq naturally aspirated M96 engine and share your final cost. It won't be pretty, it won't happen fast and won't be in one piece for very long . The only down side that I've seen so far (and I'm sure there are more) is the final drive ratio of our gearboxes. We're geared a little low for what would be optimal in sixth gear for the v8 conversion. I also wouldn't attempt hard launches with our box either, but that's just me.

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I dropped my '99 C2's weight down to 2800lbs and gained over 100ft-lb of torque with the LS1 conversion. LS series motors are aluminum block and heads with a plastic intake manifold. Factory tubular exhaust manifolds are available (lightweight.) Engine accessories are mounted low. Oil filter was easy because it hangs off the bottom of the motor. Oil fill and dipstick were easy. Plugs were MUCH MUCH MUCH easier than any 911. The oil pressure sensor was a PITA to get to.

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I bought a car from a TV studio from a well known show where they build cars and use sponsor products. I basically had to redo everything because the only thing the studio cared about was getting it running. After it fired up on the show it sat in storage. Nothing was bolted down, installed properly, or safely... plus side though I had to build it all over but got a good deal on the parts because it had the best of everything...

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Exactly... You can't build a car, or even an engine with a deadline and make it happen without compromise. Its a recipe for a disaster. hell a shop with a clock in it is a disaster alone.

Can anyone please PM me a "Discovery GO" account so I can watch it?? Pay TV wont have it here for at least 6 months at best... Will buy you a Bud light next time i'm in the states to be in keeping with the show!

Is it a porsh or a por sha please see thread in 996 turbo forum. This thread would shut the internet down over there.

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I'm watching it now, if anyone wants the file let me know

If my motor ever kato's I would put a ls in it. And yes you could build a ls to sing 8000rpm's and have it be bullit proof There is no way you are going to do that with a m96

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...yep, I think you hit the nail on the head.

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Jake, this is why I have so much respect for what you and Ruf ( I hope one day you'll make the transition to something closer to what Ruf business model is). Both you and Ruf have shown you can improve on what Porsche does, a huge achievement imho. Similarly, �Wheeler Dealers� surprising success in North America clearly shows there is a huge, untapped market out there for specialized TV shows focused a little bit more on substance rather than stupid "entertainment".

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... no, I don't believe you can. OHV limited engine speeds is the main reason why the OHC were created = reduction of mass in the valve train. This reduction of mass allows the engine to run safer and cleaner at higher engine speeds. OHC also run cooler and more efficiently than the OHVs.

I'm pretty happy with things as they are right now.. At times I've tried to make things more "elite" and all that happened was dealing with the wrong people. They wanted something for the wrong reason (image) and they were impossible to please. The higher the price, the more the level of impossibility increased. This is why we don't autograph engines, have a bunch of T shirts, hats and etc. I want to build, and develop, and I consider selling things to be another necessary evil. The only reason I've been successful is because of what we create, and thats how I retain my backlog with zero advertisements, and zero image. I once hired a pair of marketing girls back in 2011, and it was a huge waste of both time, and money. All the fancy stuff they came up with didn't make our engine better, and if something does;t make the engine better, well, its a waste in my book. After 3 months of their pandering and making me feel like I was some kind of super hero, I kicked them to the curb. No need to change anything, and I certainly don't intend to work with "cars" anymore than I do now... The car is a necessary evil for us, it houses the engine, which is the only part of the car that we are concerned with. Capitalizing on what the factory gives us was very difficult with the aircooled cars. Not so much with the modern cars. Lots of reasons for that. I think people should watch less TV, and spend their time doing things that are constructive.. But thats just me; because, when I sit down to watch TV I remember that I have a solid year's worth of work to do, and it won't get done if I'm sitting there watching some clown on TV.

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Not sure I agree completely. NASCAR (say what you want about lack of competition etc and I fully agree) V8 engines regularly run 9000 RPM for 500 miles, so it is possible. Might not work for a street car but I bet with some development it could be done. Then the LS would be as expensive as the RUF LOL.

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Big difference between overhead valve and overhead cam.... Those NASCAR V8s are still overhead valve, just not overhead cam.. Unless we are talking about a 32' Ford (flat head) V8, its an OHV design. Hell, my old Mercedes 500E (built by Porsche) is 24 years old and has DOHC (4 valve) in a V8 with variable valve timing.. An OHC V8 is far from anything new.

Well the dad bought the car for his kid, to take it to the Gumball Rally in Europe.....BUT I very much doubt that that hacked up thing will get certified for road use over there in any country. It does not have emission approval or safety inspections and I have no idea of European countries even allow such things to exist. Reality TV is NOT reality. Notice on the show how we never get a close-up of the "body work" on the screen. On some angles on TV, you could see the terrible panel gaps and how crappy the wheel arches extenders mated to the fenders. Then the really bad wheel and tire combo, it looked like they had too small tires on the wheels and the sidewalls were stretched......so as another site says. Vote crackpot......

Overhead Cam engines have been around for 100 years as have electric cars. But the American way was Overhead Valve because of packaging, cost, reliability (though OHC is reliable too) and smooth running. I know the difference between the designs. I was just pointing out that running an engine at 8500 RPM doesn't necessarily make it better. What's important is the HP and torque. IIRC OHV motors typically make more torque than OHC designs. Turbos and superchargers, upcoming 48V electric systems that can support electric turbos or superchargers are going to change everything. Interesting times when production cars are now making 650-1000 HP. My 320HP Carrera and my 415HP Chevy SS pale in comparison but both are a hoot to drive. The Vette with 455HP is just sick to drive fast. I can't imagine how much fun those more powerful cars are. Would love to try one on a track.

This is an interesting article written by an amazing and humble engineer. http://www.epi-eng.com/piston_engine..._cup_to_f1.htm You may find his technical articles valuable. regards

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... (Torque x ENGINE SPEED) / 5,252 = HP

My new favorite quote, Thanks Jake: "Hell a shop with a clock in it is a disaster alone."

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It does sound cute, but the real world of car repair(notwithstanding specialty shops) is very highly dependent on clock times. All mfg actually write a very detailed shop rate guide for most all jobs. Often called the 'flag rate' because like a cab ride, it's a timed event from when you start a discrete job to when you finish. I pay my airframe and powerplant mechanic based on clock time, but unlike car repair, anything he does, touches, or alters has to be logged in a book with his name and cert #. So, there is rarely an incentive to cut corners. The FAA is watching.

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sounds like you need to get on the bit torrent train my friend. go get a torrent client and head over to the TPB and down load most any show you want.

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High-rev LS motors aren't a big deal. The pushrods aren't the main limitation, the long stroke is the limitation. 8k RPM is easy if you shorten the stroke. http://www.hotrod.com/articles/4-8l-...pm-ls-stroker/ (it doesn't necessarily mean it's cheap, though, just possible without spend major dollars)

Its never one limitation that makes a combination perform a certain way. Shortening the stroke will generally change where the power is made, not the overall power output. I have extensive experience with this, most recently while developing my R51 engine combination. stroke/ rod ratio/ port configurations, net flow, and all those other things come into play. Pushrod engines can see insane RPM with enough valve spring/ valve control. I've spun one to over 9,500 RPM. It takes some serious development to do this, especially when considering the deflection the pushrod sees with over 600# of open spring tension. The beauty with OHC is lighter valve train parts can be used, as there are fewer parts reciprocating. The engine can see the same RPM with roughly 1/3 the valve spring tensions a pushrod engine, for revs over 6,000 RPM. I love building pushrod engines to do crazy things, because its a real challenge. In times past I've used silicon nitride (ceramic) lifters, and other crazy things to achieve this. Thats why doing crazy stuff with an M96 is so damn easy for us.

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Very interesting read. I'd like to see an updated version with current technology now that NASCAR finally allowed fuel injection and the latest F1 engines.

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LOL ... thank you for making my point. All started with this statement "Raise the limiter on an LS3 engine�, giving the impression this is very easy. I didn�t say high rev pushrod engines don't exist. But there are limitations and it�s not easy to build one. It makes more sense to build a DOHC engine instead. This is why the high rev push rod engines today are only used in competitions where a pushrod engine is mandatory.

When you say build an engine, you are actually referring to modding an existing engine, correct? Rather that building an engine from scratch? I would imagine that NASCAR and F1 engines are ridiculously expensive to build but probably more is spent in F1.

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I was very confused by this for about 15 seconds. Small note to contribute. I used to head up product development at a well known vintage bimmer supplier, and got rosy-eyed when some producers called saying that they were doing a new show for discovery called "Lord of the Car Hoards". I ended up supplying the drivetrain and suspension for the car under the verbal-promise (big mistake) that there would be great product placement complete with interviews, etc. We were on set, took part in the "unveil", everything. It was pretty exciting at the time, but you can guess what happened when the show actually aired .... nothing. Not even a mention in credits, and the rest of the car was barely cobbled together (all the expensive trim ended up being taken off and sold to "fund" other parts of the car). Learned my lesson. The ironic take-away was learning that the most honest, genuine, guy there was Chuck Palumbo. On the other hand, about two years ago while at the same shop, I had a friendly gentleman who came in the tiny reception area. We chatted for a good 15 minutes. He then introduced himself as Mike, and that he was working on a 2002Tii for a car show (Wheeler Dealers). I immediately got wary (don't watch much tv, and didn't know the show at the time), but he was very upfront that they didn't need any "sponsors" and were not looking for handouts. They just needed some bits. Sold them the parts and helped consult during their sympathetic restoration. Overall a great experience and VERY different than the first run-in with show business.

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Both. The main problems with a high rev OHV's are pushrod valvetrain complexity and (lack of) stiffness.

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I made no suggestion that increasing redline by 33% is easy. I was merely pointing out the fallacy in the comment made by M3Driver: "The GM ls series motors are hands down some of the best motors ever produced, and with no question are better than any motor Porsche ever even thought about" Yes, you can build a monster LS3. That isn't the point. The claim was that the entire line of LSx engines are better than "any motor Porsche ever even though about." I believe the CGT engine, which spins to ~8000RPM and makes about 107HP/liter is better in a number of ways than an LS3 making about 70HP/liter and a max useful RPM of approx. 6200. Incidentally, that's an engine Porsche actually BUILT. I bet they "thought of" even better ones. The LS3 is a solid, reliable, mass-produced power plant. Those three attributes - solid, reliable, and mass-produced - are also why it isn't better than the best engines Porsche engineers can "think of."

Agreed with all comments comparing LS3 to Porsche motors. Still, the torque provided by the LS3 rather than the ultimate HP is or should be better than the DOHC format, so for typical street use, there's the initial shove off the line but then overtaken by the freer revving DOHC motor. Always will be an interesting comparison but the OHV V8 days are probably numbered based on how many DOHC 2.0L turbos are now available from virtually all manufacturers in the quest for MPG's and efficiency.

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You may well be right. However, at my garage (and many others', I suspect), there is no "quest for MPG's and efficiency". None.

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I respectfully disagree, and am willing to bet the simple pushrod V8 will still be around for a very long time. As with virtually everything about business, it simply comes down to money. I do love the complex flat six in my 911, but I loved the humble LS1 in the Camaro SS I sold to buy the Porsche too. The LS series of motors are simple and reliable, and much cheaper than the Porsche motor in terms of horsepower or torque per dollar. As mentioned many times in this thread, they are different animals in most ways, and cannot easily be directly compared. As long as GM, Ford and Chrysler can build cars nearly as fast or faster than most Porsches in a straight line, for a fraction of the price, the low tech pushrod V8 will not go away. I believe that government regulations around gas mileage will be the biggest factor in reducing the number built. As for Fast and Loud and GMG, I enjoy the show a lot. I am a serious motor head, but I realize the show is all about entertainment so I am not expecting much in the way of them sharing technical knowledge. I like some fairly mindless entertainment after dealing with the complexities of earning a decent living so I can keep my 911! So the V8 911 build was interesting to me, and appeared to work out better than I expected. Would I buy it, nope - I'd still rather have Richard's 911 Turbo S...

I am all for dohc engines, and in fact I can't believe GM still pursues push rod motors, but there is one undeniable fact they have perfected them. High revving ls engines are readily available with off the shelf parts and they can spin those rpms and be reliable. But the real promise of those motors is there is no need to spin that high. In the world where I come from (ultra4 cars) there are many teams running ls engines spinning 7500rpms under the most extreme situations and they last for years.

A Porsche without a Porsche engine is not a Porsche anymore, even if it is faster. The LS engine is lighter, simpler, cheaper, makes more power, and uses less fuel doing so. I loved them in my Vette and F-bodies. RR is the perfect jackass for TV, an empty shell. I wouldn't be him for any amount of money. Too bad Disc.Ch. won't air what Renegade Hybrids told them when they asked for a free conversion kit. Also, the Porsche logo was conspicuously absent on the boxes for the $11k body conversion kit. Genuine parts probably more like $22k.

I dunno... I have owned and loved Porsche since the 80's... Owned a 996 and boxster S also... I would gladly buy a 996 with a V8 conversion. The 996 motors just aren't that great. Its not an issue of being cheap, or ruining a car. I keep seeing guys on here contemplating doing a v8 conversion, and the chorus always is that the car wont be worth anything... Yet, I don't see any $15,000 996's with swapped V8's for sale... Busted 996, replacing motor with rebuilt $15-20k. Total cost for owner $40k all in. Cars still worth about $15-20k... Busted 996 with V8 conversion? Total cost including car, probably about $40k to do it right. Car is worth way more than $15-20k... If anyone has a V8 conversion 996 they see for sale for $15-20k, let me know. I can find 996's for that price all day long, and even for less... Putting a V8 in a 930/911/993? Not a great idea. Financially or philosophically. In a 996, totally viable.

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Hey, thanks for that contribution. Unfortunately, many of the production companies don't want to fork out money for "Props" because they feel it should be a privilege to be on their show. They considerate it a form of advertisement, but as they say, "An oral contract is a good as the paper it's written on" and so I hate to hear you got the stiff, but it doesn't surprise me. I just wish all production groups worked the show like "Wheeler Dealers". Again, thanks for story!

Reason I posted this topic was to see the bearded wonder would come up with and was hoping to see more custom fabrication like they did on their twin turbo Pantera but instead it was simple Renergade kit that has been around for over decade and they got ripped off on a 997 frontend conversion. Entirely to much bitching and complaining in this episode. Regarding LS swaps..well I love them and done several and just started a 997 C4S project (see link). For me it was a no brainer, picked up the car cheap and already had an LS1 and parts. All-in I will have less than $20k invested, it will put down 450hp AWD and will have body mods of a GT3 wide body. http://ls1tech.com/forums/conversion...s-ls-swap.html

The GMG episode with the Ferrari F40 should tell you all that you need to know about the show.

http://www.drivingline.com/articles/...rednecks-ride/

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Sorry about that! I didn't mean to lump the actual GMG in with Gas Monkey Garage! As far as the flat-6 vs. V-8 debate, I can appreciate both styles. As a matter of fact I can appreciate any vehicle that has been done well. Hell, I can appreciate a well done donk with hydraulics and 30" wheels. One of the best "car guy" discussions I've had was with a guy who pulled up to the other side of the gas pump in one of these while I was fueling the 996. Great guy and SUPER NICE Impala donk. I'd take the right LS3 converted 996 in a heartbeat. It would be a fun, fairly unique car. That being said, I'm really happy with my 3.4 flat six. If it blows up, I will have to decide if I'm going renegade hybrid or putting another flat six in.

I enjoyed that episode. It obviously contained truckloads of BS but I do like to watch the show. I would love to see more documentary and less "scripted reality" but that's not likely to happen. These shows all follow a formula - inject fake drama into every episode - "If we don't get X done by Y, bad things will happen"

I finally watched it and enjoyed the episode. But I agree that more discussion about the LS3 install and less bitching about the 997 update kit would have been more interesting. I did kind of like the fender flares though.

"Seemed like a good idea at the time" comes to mind. The benefit of hindsight is immeasurable. If you were looking for a classic air cooled 911, would you considering buying a '69 911T with a Chevy 327 swap? Probably not. In my experience, the collector cars with the most value are usually as close to originally delivered as possible. Muscle cars, sports cars, classics, whatever. Well done customs like Foose, Kindig, Coddingham, Singer, etc. are noted exceptions. As I've said, a lot of my work is putting cars back like they were, doing away with goofy stripes, flares, spoilers, wheels. Apologies if this is anyone's car here, and to each his own.

I thoroughly enjoyed Corvette Summer, but that car is not my cup of tea!

Didn't the GMG do a show that had that same Vette in it?

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you're thinking of the hot wheels corvette, different car

GMG ruined a Pantera in an earlier episode. There were plenty of better choices retaining the 351 Cleveland instead of an EcoBoost with a dialed up turbo. 400 hp from the V-8 would be plenty for that 40 year old chassis to cope with and the exhaust tone would be better too.

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^ True

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I don't have a problem with the EcoBoost - seems like a solid power plant you can make all kinds of power with. But stuffing that motor into a Pantera is criminal. The whole POINT of the Pantera is that it's a weird-azz mid-engine Italian sports car with a Ford V8. Only 7,000 Panteras were made over 20 years; seems like keeping it stock for something that rare would be more important that turning it into a "hey, we know how to do low-displacement modern turbos AND monster V8's" commercial for Gas Monkey. It was reminiscent of the "let's do a low-rider" episode, where Aaron went with bags instead of hydraulics. A low-rider without hydraulics is like The Shocker without a pinky...

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we will all be dead for many many years before a base 996 vert with a ruined motor ever becomes a "collectible".... these are the mass production years and the base vert 996 only surpassed by a base 996 vert automatic trans car as far as least upon least desirable. To do this to a 996gt3 or 996gt2 now that would be a future (actually current) collector car no no.... enjoyed the project but wish they started with a 997 coupe with a blown motor ....easily can find one for under 20K and would have saved a ton on the 997 conversion kit that was a sloppy "bolt on" mess from whom ever made it. *** for every seat... Counts customs http://www.countskustoms.com/ would love that vette as is!

Honestly, if that was a coupe, I would like everything about it.

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Ford is clearly a sponsor, and they clearly are pushing eco-boost motors... They seem to be putting these in many of their cars... A free motor is a free motor...

Since this is the current swap argument thread, I just saw this crop up on the 986 tech FB group: "2.7t from an Audi S4. Running on a large single turbo rather than the original twins"

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Those Simians do get other brand cars/motors, like the Dodge Challenger episode, whereas iirc they got a brand new 'protoype' st8 challenger (obviously straight from dodge corporate at no cost) and took out all its guts to put into a 71 challenger http://www.gasmonkeygarage.com/annou...ge-challenger/ Also, I recall reading that surprise surprise you cannot trust their $cost/$profit/$loss numbers at all... specifically mentioned online in several postings ...on the f40 build (the buy/sell prices were heavily massaged lol) RR said last episode he won the gasball 3000 2 of 4 times he ran it, he has 31:59 tattooed on his arm, so he's not a total poseur I'd have to say. As for people speculating how he made 15 million; A) Trust fund B) Drugs C) Medicaid/medicare/fedguv con D) Good friend of Clinton how about option E, a combination of hard work and "thruthful hyperbole" lol Good for him, even if he desecrates vehicles and is quite a flake, he seems to be having fun in life doing his thing, and his sidekick Dennis is really successful and seems shrewd

Damn, I wish I could get back the time I wasted watching this dumb *** Monkey show. If I wanted to listen to a bunch of self-professed mechanical geniuses dump on every aspect of the 996, I could have simply spent the time on Rennlist.

This is how a poor Military Man does it: http://ls1tech.com/forums/conversion...onversion.html

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I felt EXACTLY the same way after watching it.

They got bad advice or just made a bad descion on the F40, should have stayed completely stock

Top 10 engines: http://jalopnik.com/the-10-best-engi...ars-1510676043

Counting Cars is the real deal.

I like seeing them actually working on the cars.

As an aside, noted on their facebook page, Aaron has quit to start his own show... Suspicion that there was a failure of contract talks with Richard... Must be pretty easy to get a Discovery show now a days... seems like everyone that quits gets one... Also, anyone else notice that all the cars Richard "sold" always seem to still be in his parking lot even years later?

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They get a show because of people like that keep watching this and other reality TV garbage.

Anyone else think Wayne Carini from Chasing Classic Cars dupes old ladies into selling to him, then he throws in a new battery, gives it a wash and sells it at auction for twice the price or I'm I just being cynical???

Wayne is smart for never revealing his prices... How would you feel after you buy a Gas Monkey car and find out Richard charged twice what he paid for it, without fixing anything? That's gotta sting

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As long as the car is not intentionally misrepresented, then the agreed sale price is what it is.... The previous purchase price should have no bearing on it. A seller should not feel obligated to pass savings on to the next buyer. If that were the case, then a buyer should feel obligated to close the gap for a seller taking a loss. What ever the mutual agreement is fair in my book.