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YOUR RESEARCHThe digging out from my money shift begins.
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guy behind the wheel
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Its an engine build guide that will be filled with tons of assembly tricks.
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Use standard height 13mm socket, 3/8 swivel, extension and ratchet
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
I used a standard height 13mm socket, 3/8 swivel, extension and ratchet.
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Suggestion · Original poster
I plan on holding onto most of these parts since I know they were working (and some of them were new), until the new motor is in and running with no issues.
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Some of you may remember that I bought Gators car, and promptly blew it up on the track. Today was step two in getting her back to the track. I dropped the engine and trans. Hardest part was finding that damn third bolt on the AC compressor.
Since the photo is step 2. I'll tell you that step 1 was buying a running 2000 C4 that had been hit in the front.
Step 3 is pulling the motor from the donor car.
Step 4 will be refreshing the donor motor.
Step 5 will be installing refreshed motor and going to the track.
Step 6 will hopefully be breaking even from selling the rest of the parts from the donor car. It's got some nice track bits including a teqequpuiment roll bar, so if you need anything, let me know.
Im in the same process, just fixed my motor and resleeved it instead of buying a replacement. good luck! Im very convinced these will go up in value more.
Connecting Rod Bolts stretched. At least that is my theory since there were pieces of connecting rod caps on the bottom of the oil pan when pulled.
Now just working on the list of parts to buy for the refresh. Trying to balance making something robust/not spending more than the value of the car on it. I'm going to get an oil analysis done on donor motor and go from there.
Plus, since it is my fault it went, I don't want to spend $20K on it, just to blow it up again, not that I am planning on it.
Although a pain in the butt, I should get out of this without spending much more than time, so if I had to do it again, I could. Again, not planning on it, just my justification for not go all out on a fully rebuilt motor.
"Connecting Rod Bolts stretched" & snapped.
This is very useful confirmation of the value of doing all the little upgrades when rebuilding an M96. Nobody ever sees your upgrades and it takes many hours to compile a complete list of the financially justifiable ones , but well worth it in my experience.It is worth noting that many of the pro- refreshed motors have zero upgrades !
I am biased but, Go DIY rebuilds & Go ARP !
Go billet rods! Once the bolts are stronger, then the stock rod fails. None of my track engines (even DE engines) use stock rods. We used stock rods two times in 2016.
Of course if our favorite Forum member would publish his BOOK ,we would have included upgraded rods in our own build :-). Instead we have to piece together a list from hundreds of snippets of info on many Forums. So We look forward to THE book in 2017.
Jake's hint at a 2017 publication date for his book - The M96 Definitive Guide, is very good news- at last.
But I think we need to encourage Jake to sell a premium version of his book. He has censored it.So the new book will be Raby-lite & polite.Not the guy I enjoy so much .
The original version was too controversial - he thought. The watered down,new book would be O.K. for the sensitive types who want a bedtime P.C. book and drink NA beer. Personally ,I would pay a premium for the uncensored version. I like to have my mechanical misconceptions demolished, my false impressions shattered .I'd love to read something that makes the original engineers of this brilliant but flawed engine squirm. I love the idea that some of the controversial content would send Baz into a (polite & eloquent) rage,make Martin swear and leave the other competitors arguing among themselves.
Bring it (all) on Jake - have some fun with YOUR book. Every sentence does not have to be perfectly parsed and polished but it has to sound like Jake Raby !
The book is a step by step assembly guide of a stock engine. It has zero opinion included, and no performance content, or parts lists.
If you have t figured it out yet, money does not motivate me. I care nothing about most of the things people refer to as "success".
No, this World cannot take me at face value. I must censor myself. I promise.
My daughter and I spent New Years Eve cruising in our tank...
help us Jake, you're our only hope
One thing I'm curious about in the rebuild process is bank2 temp management. Do you focus on using low temp thermostat, 3rd radiator, better internals to reduce the chance of cylinder/rod failure? So far I've read about conn rods/bolts, cylinder lining, pistons, solution for the ims bearing. Outside of that you have the structural problem on inadequate bank2 cooling design. Do the upgraded parts simply stand up to the abuse, is it the blend of better cooling in aggregate (3rd rad. + LTT) coupled with the better internals that allows your engines to hold up?
Lolz....
Subscribed. Glad to see it going together. Hope it works out. What did you give for the smashed C4? That's the trick.
[** cute kid Jake. Disagree about what's needed in terms of an M96 book. The hours of dedicated work on this engine should be filled with op-ed from experience. Otherwise, why bother, why publish? Like has been said, I would pay premium for a less censored, and more secret filled tome. That is, if you really aren't motivated by money, why not let it all hang out? The value of a 'how-to' is directly related to the authors intellectual property. You have vast IP in this area(blatant suck-up, sorry). Not writing the real ins and outs is doing a disservice to the marque. Oh, btw, tanks have tracks. **]
I paid $10K for the crashed car. I already have a side business parting out E36 M3s, so I already have a system in place. The donor car has lots of track parts including GT3 Euro seats so lots of money to be made back (although I may end up keeping the seats for my car depending on how the other stuff sells).
Mobile Gun system <> 'tank'.
So sez;
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/stryker_mgs.htm
http://military.wikia.com/wiki/M1128_Stryker_MGS
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...ehicles-05045/
http://www.gdls.com/products/stryker...ryker-MGS.html
<< These guys designed and built them. No where are they referred to as a 'tank'.
Not a bad price provided the engine, trans and the modules are in working order. Parting out a dead car is a tough thing unless you have a logistics in place process. Sounds like it may work out.
Keep updates coming as you make milestones.
help us Jake, you're our only hope
All my engines have used the LN Engineering low temp thermostat since we developed it, back in 2008. We avoid cylinder and rod failure by not using OEM components for these tasks. All of my engines get LN Nickies cylinders, and at minimum they receive ARP rod bolts.
Yes, coupled to non- automated assembly. Here the same person will pull the engine from a car, tear that engine down, then complete 100% of the work associated with assembling that engine, to include dynamic balancing of the components. He'll even reinstall it, and start it up for the first time. This removes the variables that other builders, and the factory leave on the table.
What people need is an assembly guide, put together in a step by step format, in chronological order. What **I** do not need is something published that will be nothing but a pain in the *** to deal with. I also don't need off- hand comments from smart asses because the things that I state defy conventional wisdom, or what is shared on forums. All that will do is **** me off, and I'll retire.
Those are the things that will cause me trouble. If this was 25 years ago, and every smart *** in the room couldn'tt post some random interjection on a forum, things would be different.
"How to" will be covered in great detail. What won't be included are chapters on "why" or pages and pages of my opinions. Its an engine build guide that will be filled with tons of assembly tricks. It won't tell you how we build our engines, but it will tell you how you should assemble yours. It certainly won't make me more of a "fear monger" than I already am in the eyes of people on these forums who generally, can't handle the truth.
The reason I haven't finished it has been because I kind of dread the fallout from releasing it. I don't care for notoriety, or being in a spotlight. I build engines, and why we are so successful at this is because we don't hype it up, don't market what we do, and we don't live in a fantasy world of fake image, and race cars like the majority of the Porsche industry. At the end of the day I am a guy with dirty hands, and busted knuckles, not an author.
My UN on BF is StantonGTI, although I do most of my selling through eBay (YellowshirtAuctions) and CL.
For the third bolt on the compressor, it became very easy once I read the tip that I should remove the throttle body, and the first plenum for the intake. Once you do that, you can put you left had back that way to find the bolt, and lower the socket/swivel/extensions down with your right hand. All the pictures I saw, never showed where the bolt actually is, so I took one (below). You can get to either from going through the intake, or above the compressor (as seen in the picture).
I used a standard height 13mm socket, 3/8 swivel, extension and ratchet.
I guess I can grok that. If the contents are how to, with great detail which show where we can avoid mistakes, that's the key. Not adding a lot of op-ed about 'why' makes sense. You do seem a bit touchy about how others view your contributions.
See below how much the unmoderated ,gratuitous nasty comments cost the Rennlist community ?
Imagine if instead the nasty comments were deleted by the Moderator. We would have accumulated much more knowledge.Instead we get a very understandable response to give only a portion of what would otherwise be generously offered.
If the Moderators decline to intervene, it is left to the rest of us to drown out the spiteful commentary.
Thanks for publishing anyway Jake.There must be a silent (& spineless?) majority who appreciate your insights & Ferret photos.
Huh? The only thing I see is the reply from Jake vis-a-vis his position on those who disagree with methods or philosophy. I think, if yur gonna play on the internet, and yur gonna make statements, someone, somewhere is going to disagree. But - moderating opinions, is a risky biz. I've published before, and been castigated for my theories. So has Heisenberg, so has Feynman(not that I'm anywhere in that league).
OTOH, when you sign your name to a published book/paper, you stick it out there, and let people roll over it, stick a fork in it, and otherwise attack, ridicule, and belittle. It's the nature of the game, and I still say that someone who professes to 'not care' seems to want to take his ball and go home at the first sign of disagreement. Even nonsensical disagreement where a stout 'go ahead, do whatever you want' would be more warranted. i.e. if someone decides to put the second compression ring on upside down because they consider the pressure on the ring will be better with the groove in that position, so be it. Jake doesn't have to defend putting the ring on the right way.
The internetz and this forum are an equal oppty place. Equal only in access, not equal in results. It's up to us to decide based on content. Having a mod do this for us is not something I would agree with. Mostly because sooner rather than later - asshattery will out. BTW, that's what the 'ignore' function does, should one want to limit their viewing of my op-ed blather.
This week's update.
I spent time separating the trans and tearing down the old motor, of course labeling everything.
Top Tip - got to the Dollar Store for the "Ziploc" bags. They have lots of sizes, up to 2 Gallon, so you can keep complete components with all mounting hardware all in one bag. Also keeps power steering fluid from getting everywhere. That pump just keeps leaking fluid.
Got everything off except for the heads. That will be one night this week, or this weekend. No issues pulling anything, and only broke one header bolt.
I'm this deep, and still have not seen any carnage (other than the connecting rod pieces that were in my oil pan). Looking at the valves (from what I see) none of the look bent (although I am sure they need to be)
What amazes me is how light the block is. I don't have an engine stand at my garage, so it is up on a moving cart with a wood base. The engine actually moves around with very little force. It seems like two people could easily pick it up. Maybe I'll see if my wife wants to give me a hand.
I plan on holding onto most of these parts since I know they were working (and some of them were new), until the new motor is in and running with no issues. Once that is confirmed, I'll start selling them, but if you need anything, let me know.
Onto the pics.
Apparently someone left me some snacks in the bell housing. Amazing how rodents can get places.
In this week's update, I got the heads off. Amazingly, they both look fine. Valves looks good, cams look good, the timing was actually still correct.
The cylinder walls also look good. You would not know there was an issue, until you turn it over by hand. The outer pistons move with no issue, while the two middle pistons just sit there. So now I have a 4 cylinder.
I'll crack the case this week, just for fun, and then it is on to pulling the motor from the donor car.
A double D- Chunk ! That is a photo to save for those who drool over M96 Hall of Shame photos. But I suspect there was more going on than just D-Chunk ?
Jake Raby may be interested in your photo to comment on ?
Thank you for sharing.
Yeah. Not my proudest moment. Even worse is my buddy has it on tape as he was behind me when I decided to go from 4th to 1st while doing 100mph. You can hear it screaming over the sound of his C7 Z06.
The case is trash (i think), so I'll turn it into some sort of art for my office. I'll be selling as much of the other stuff that I took off that I can, after the donor car is in the car and running.
It is notable that although fools commented about D-Chunck, casting defects could not really be the primary cause. We will gently avoid mentioning the real cause in respect of the sensitivities of the OP.
But D-Chunk may be a good fig leaf to conceal the embarrassment.
The real cause - a mistaken 4th to 1st change instead of 4th tho 5th or 3rd?
Could the cause of this engine detonation be a worn shifter - too much play in the bushings?
Another fig leaf and a hint to others (&me!)with floppy shifters?
No need to gently avoid mentioning the real cause, as I have openly admitted to the real cause since I pulled the pan. The real cause was the guy behind the wheel. Previous to that knucklehead doing what he did, the motor was in great shape with 117K mile on it, with many of them being on the track miles. The original IMSB and I believe the original clutch were both still in the car and they were in great shape when pulled (not that they will be used again).
The motor that was in this car is proof that they can be good even with high miles. Of course this car was very well maintained (thanks Gator) with a ton of service history, lots of quality oil changes, and lots of driving.
I have no doubt that if I did not make the mistake I made, the car would still be on the road with its original motor, and I would have made it through all of that last weekend at Summit Point, instead of blowing the motor 12 minutes in to the first session.
Now to get the new motor in so I don't miss the first event of the season back at Summit Point on the Shenandoah Track 4/7-4/9.
So, is the shifter in the car with the dead engine a bit sloppy ?
I ask because of the comments about the GT3 shifter upgrade being 'like a rifle bolt' .
Without any slop in the GT3 shifter bushings, it seems less likely that this expensive mistake would occur. Just thinking about preserving your next engine for more than 117k miles ! Maybe a new shifter makes sense also ?
A bit sloppy yes, but nowhere near as sloppy as my old M3. I do plan on upgrading the shifter. Just waiting until I finish tearing apart the donor car since there are a ton of track bits. I may get lucky, and it may have an upgraded kit already.
Lol, you're not gently avoiding anything if you're going to spell it out anyway. Anyways, the OP did title the post "digging out from my money shift".
OP, is that the normal money shift? I've had two, and it was going from 6 to 2 instead of 6 to 4 - wasn't track driving, just trying to get some quick power for a pass on the highway. I don't know much, but it sounds like the shifter is really sloppy if it happened during a straight shift.
Not sure the is a normal money shift, it was a stupid one. I had just given a point by as I started to brake, so I was quickly getting my left hand back to the wheel and moved my right hand over to make the shift. I don't really recall if I just mis-shifted or thought the car was slowed down more that it was. I really did not think much of it since the damage was not immediate, it made it two laps before it let go.
The synchro on these cars are too good. I could never have done a money shift in my Alfa Romeo gti 6. You had to double clutch on every downshift.
I did a money shift at the track. Was short shifting from 2nd to third on a slight rh turn and the g forces were pushing my hand to left and I hit 1st. Luckily I was able to put the clutch in immediately and I didn't even get an over rev on the counter.
More progress. Donor motor is in the car! Once I got it mounted, I decided to call it a day, and I need to wait for some parts to come in to finish plumping and hooking everything back in.
Some potentially good news, discovered that the donor motor is a remanufactured from Porsche with the 997 IMS. I ultimately decided not to crack the case at this point. I did replace clutch assembly, AOS, water pump, thermostat, plugs, and a few other things.
New hoses will also be installed. If all goes well, it will be running again on Sunday.
It could also be called:
"The Wife Wants To Kill Me Shift"
"The Wife Wants Her Garage Spot Back Shift"
"The Why Are My Friends Laughing And Pointing At Me Shift"
"The Wow Even When You Think You Are Done Spending Money, You Still Have $300 Worth of Coolant And Oil To Buy Shift"
But, I find Money Shifts sums up all of the above pretty well.
An Update! It's RUNNING!
A couple small issues to deal with. I don't think the throttle cable is routed correctly, so at start up, it is revving high.
I need to bleed the clutch since I needed to remove the slave, currently the pedal is stuck to the floor, but I need to flush the system before the first event so no big deal there.
I'll be creating a new thread detailing the differences of swapping a 2000-2002 3.4 Engine into a 1999 car since there are a few things that are different.
On a few recent canyon cruises I've had a bit of trouble with gearbox feedback. Have new motor mounts and I'm thinking maybe it's highlighting the weak point of the stock shifter bearings. No money shifts just having to deal with some delayed shifts. It's not a yudge deal, but I can buy in to the idea of going with FFirst or GT3 style bearing upgrades to reduce risk of botched shifts - especially on the track.
And it is BACK.
So happy to report that the car has been up and running for the last three weeks. In fact, I just got back from Summit Point where I was running the Jefferson and Shenandoah tracks.
I was a bit paranoid because I ended up not being able to trailer it down. Spent so much time to get the car ready that I didn't check the trailer lights, which of course were not working. So I had to drive the 200 miles down, and hope that the mechanic (me) knew what he was doing.
I took it real easy on Friday. Went out in the lower run groups (I'm an instructor), and did not take it above 6000 RPM, only stayed out for half of each session, and watched the temp and oil pressure like a hawk.
On Saturday and the first session on Sunday, I went for it. Car was great. Pulled real hard, and it was a ton of fun. After the first session on Sunday, I started to take it easy again. Didn't want to push my luck and wanted to make sure I made it home.
Only issue the car is having in a CEL for O2 Sensors/Cats. There is a slight exhaust leak where the cats connect to the headers, so that could be it, or they could be shot from when the engine blew. I think I'll swap the ones off the donor motor (something I probably should have just done to begin with).
In other good news, I have sold just two things off the donor car (roll bar and GT3 Euro seats) and have made back 40% of the purchase price of the donor car, so if all goes well, it seems very possible that I will make some sort of a profit from this "wonderful" situation.
And here is a pic of her back in action this weekend.
And one thing, I forgot to mention. While I was at the track, some guy came up and said he had just seen my car on Jalopnik.
Check out the last "Mod":
http://jalopnik.com/heres-the-dumbes...ith-1793871296
I knew I'd seen that on rennlist but couldn't remember whose car it was.
Good to hear the car is back and in good shape. Did you run Jefferson extended? I'm running it with trackdaze in two weeks and we're running it both directions. I have 0 laps on it outside iRacing and that's only the old short version.
Yes, ran the extended course counter clockwise. It was actually pretty fun. The entire course just got paved, but it is still pretty bumpy. There is an uphill left hand turn in the extended section which is also off camber. The car is so light at the point where you need to brake that it triggered the ABS every time. After that, there is a complete throw-away decreasing radius left hander, that will catch you off guard a couple of times.
As with all of the Summit courses, safety is a bit questionable. There are lots of places where the car will just go airborne if you go off.
