996 hunting in the Great White North

After saying for years that someday I would look into acquiring a 911, I've decided that someday is today. My plan is to pick up a 996 as a daily driver. Living in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada I figure a C4 is probably the best bet, but wont rule out a good C2 based on my readings here on Rennlist. My price range is about 30k purchase price with a reserve of about 3 to 5k for maintenance and IMS upgrade. I've come across this 2004 C4S Coupe with 130,000 km (81,000miles)for about 33k in Calgary, which is about 3 hours away. I spoke to the dealer and he provided me a carfax and the service records from the local Porsche dealer. The carfax shows no accidents.The service records span the life of the car but seem to be light on actual servicing and focus more on isolated issues and tire swaps, although a Major Maintenance (every 60,000km) was performed in March of this year. I've attached the carfax and service records. http://wwwb.autotrader.ca/a/Porsche/...howcpo=ShowCPO I'm not sure on the best course of action from this point on. 1. Have a PPI performed, then making the trip myself to do a final inspection 2. Make 2 trips one for a viewing and test drive in person, and then a later trip after a PPI has been performed to pick up the car I'm just looking for some feedback on the car to make sure I'm not missing anything as there seems to be a million different options and combinations on these cars.

Azraely: although the exchange rate is not in your favor, and my car is only a C2, it does not need a thing....

I paid 32k can. for a 2004 c2 with 80,000 km here in Quebec City. 996 here are not common like in the USA, i think its a bit hi but the car had the option i was looking for and is guard red

Seems like a pretty good deal if that's $32k cdn. The fact that they took it to the dealership for the 60k is a pretty good sign that they tried to take care of the car. Make a deposit on the sale "pending" PPI. Just like buying a home. You agree to purchase price, get the money down, etc. Too many times people pay for a PPI only to have it sold out from underneath them. Then go test drive it confirm everything and take her home. This all assumes that you have driven one before and know what you want.

I bought a C4S here in Ontario this summer. It had similar mileage on the body, but the engine was a rebuild with ~6K on it. It had a few, easily repairable faults. I paid $29,500.00 CDN ($22,000 US). Now, this car has a few more options on it. Rear window wiper (I would like this, but strangely, for cosmetic reasons). Those full power sport seats are pretty rare as well. This dash is lightly carboned. On the flip side, you can see on this car that one of the engine mounts is shot, or just the exhaust tip on the right side is misaligned. The engine mounts are an easy DIY (and parts are ~$300.00), as is re-aligning the tip. Inside the hood will be a sticker with all the option codes. Get them to send you a photo if possible, and check what is factory, what is aftermarket. I bought mine out of town, but I only made one trip. I went and had the PPI done the same day (arranged in advance). You want to be there for the PPI (I hovered over the tech, but apologised in advance for doing so). A car of this "vintage" will have some faults, and it is nice to be able to talk to the tech about what is serious, what is not, and what is fatal. After reviewing the service records, two thinks strike me: 1. The clutch and RMS were re-done at 90,000 km. That is good. 2. Yearly oil changes were done until 2010. No change in 2011. Change in 2012 and 2013. Then no oil change from 90,000km until the 60,000 mile service this year. I am not saying the oil wasn't changed, it just isn't on the service records. The oil change issue makes me pause.

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This. And that. And also these. Engine mount is either shot or there's been exhaust damage. The price seems high for that mileage, especially from a used car dealer. Drop it into German Car Specs in Calgary for the PPI (or Riegel). As for the clutch & RMS....was the IMS done?!? I drove a 996 C2 in Edmonton for 3 years (April - October). The AWD isn't really necessary, unless it will also be your winter beater. Good luck

Thanks for the great responses everyone. To clarify a couple of questions asked 1. I've not yet driven a 911, this is proving to be somewhat difficult right now as there are no 996s for sale locally at any dealerships, or even private party and to top it off the weather for the next 10 days or so is forcast at highs of about -20 Celsius, not exactly great car shopping weather lol. 2. The plan is for the car to be my daily driver year round, parked in an unheated garage 3. From the maintenance records, I don't believe the IMS was changed out when the Clutch and RMS were done. I'm not sure if the Porsche dealer could or would provide more detail on that particular servicing. My feeling is the price is high, particularly based on external factors such as it being December, and economically things are not going well in Alberta, and particularly in Calgary. I was thinking of offering in around 27k and trying to end up at 28 to 29k, subject to findings on a PPI of course. Another thing to consider is the car has summer tires on it and I'd need to drive it home 3 hours, so would like to get some winter rubber on it before leaving Calgary. Can I just swap winter tires onto the stock rims for now? Reading on the forum it seems that Porsche may have recommended a different tire size for winters and that they do not fit on the stock rims, particularly the rears. Is that true?

There are snows that will fit the summer rims. Pack lightly though, your car will be full of summer tires. 900000km is 560000mi so that oil change interval is ok. You might get the PPI done before showing in person.

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I should have been clearer. There was a oil change at 90,000 km and then again at 130,000 km. There is no documented oil change in between. They did a 60,000 mile service at 130,000 km.

for a few more bucks you can get a 997 ... http://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/e...997/1199698141

Wow! That's a great price for a 997 with only 80K kilometers. I think the C4S you are looking at is priced a bit on the high side considering the mileage and time of year. If you can get it for under $30K you could have a great ride there (with a good PPI report of course). With either of these cars you'll want to take care of the IMSB so you don't risk CEF. P.S. I drive my C2 year round, but probably a lot less snow here than in AB.

I've seen the 997 in Edson and I kind of brushed it off as too good to be true. Seems like the mileage and price are too low. Maybe I'll call the dealer and find out what they know. Another issue would be getting a proper PPI done as Edson is a small town, nearest specialist would be here in Edmonton an hour and a half away.

Don't get a PPI done at Eurasia, those guys are useless.

Who would you recommend? I see sandy lane automotive is a LN certified installer. But not much on Google for them.

OT - i'd be interested to hear recommendations for edmonton-area indies as well (and perhaps why you don't like eurasia - perhaps pm or different thread). otherwise, buying a porsche is a big deal - make an experience out of it and take the saturday to drive out to edson and check out the 997. while getting a ppi might be difficult, recent service records may be readily available to at least give an indication of car condition and care (and whether you want to invest in a ppi); ie, it might have been serviced at norden it's whole life and they could tell you what's up with it. the 996 looks a bit pricey, but it is a buyers market currently and i am sure that the price will go down; check out this thread for some interesting commentary on current porsche pricing - post #51 - ... https://rennlist.com/forums/rennlist...ar-here-4.html

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Also interested in the Eurasia disliking. I have to admit they're not 5-star or well priced, but they've done reasonable work for me in the past. If you're not into Eurasia I'd consider Edmonton Porsche (previously Norden). They aren't "cheap" and you need to be clear on your expectations, but the recent work I've had done there was competitively priced (996 AOS replacement, $400 less than Eurasia).

I agree with others that that 996 is a bit on the high side, but I think that most of the 911's in general are priced a bit higher in Alberta (I am from Edmonton as well). As a suggestion, if you already do not have this planned, get the invasive PPI where they can pull the plugs and check the bore/cylinder condition. With the winter tires, there are some that are the OEM rear sizes, but you can fit smaller width tires but may have to adjust the front sizing accordingly. Eurasia did the work for my IMS solution and clutch change a few years back, everything was fine but they were definitely expensive. I have not heard anything from Sandy Lane Auto either, but they were mentioned when I was talking to FSI about my engine rebuild. Good luck and the 4S is a great car in the snow, but I think that was more the winter tires than the AWD system doing the work .

I have a Canadian spec 1999 06/98 build date C2 down in Lethbridge. 114KM that I'd probably let go for $24,500 if you are interested. Just did AOS, chain tensioners, spoiler wall, all fluids, pretty much everything else maintenance wise on it, but I would purposely NOT touch the IMS. Runs great, new RE71R tires. It's not a show car with some paint chips and curb rash from PO but looks nice and interior is mint. It needs nothing. e: Let me know if you are interested. I have several pics and a recent carproof from when I bought it last year.

Some very good friends of mine own Alpine autowerks in Calgary, they rebuild 911 engines on a daily basis, have an in-house dyno for tuning, custom fab work etc., it's a reputable and diverse shop. I bought my 911 in Edmonton (3 hours from Calgary) and due to lack of options had to get the PPI done at Eurasia. The car left the previous owners house with a check engine light and had some white smoke on start up that I didn't notice until I eventually got the car home. While at Eurasia they diagnosed a random misfire in cylinder 2, they checked the coil, coil Ok. They removed the spark plug and replaced it with a new spark plug. CEL gone, for now. What they neglected to tell me was the condition of the spark plug (completely white from coolant contamination), the strong coolant smell upon start up and shut down and even coolant residue on the exhaust system. How they missed the white smoke show upon start up as well was beyond me. I explained to Eurasia that this was my first 911 and asked his honest opinion if it was a good car or not, he assured me that it was and although he cannot guarantee a vehicle (which I can understand), he assured me that it was a sorted 996. Trusting his opinion ended up being a $7000 mistake, my 911 needs a head gasket, thank god its not a cracked cylinder wall! Had I known even just a fraction about 996s back then as I do now I would have known straight away that my car had a bad head gasket, instead I put trust in the wrong person/shop. Most shops have boroscopes and can inspect the cylinders for you, you just need a shop who knows that to look for. As crazy as this sounds I'd try and get a ppi done in Calgary if the logistics are possible or even Das Auto Haus in Red Deer. Good luck with the purchase, I still love my 911, I just hate Eurasia lol.

I've been busy with work the past couple of days and haven't had a chance to talk to the dealer with the 2004 C4S. Hopefully I'll have time tomorrow to find out where he's at with pricing, no point in thinking about it anymore if he's married to his price.

Advice I usually give is wait for what you really, really, want. If you want a C4S, then get a C4S. If you want a tip, get a tip. You may have to go to FL, or something but you're gonna drive it every day, get what will make you happy with the car. I think since it's fairly close to you, a trip over to see and drive in person would be in order, but I guess getting the price where you want it is smart as well.

Spoke to the dealer in Calgary, he wouldn't go below 30k, which with the tax of buying from a dealership on top just made it too much for my budget.

Based on what we paid for my wifes 996 ... that is too high Her car is a 2004, we got it with 34,000 km on it Wait for the exact car you want -> I agree with the above poster

I've been talking with Spud72 about his early build 99 C2 that he has. After doing more reading regarding the early 996s it seems it might be a good fit for my mentality which is drive more worry less. Is it true that the larger dual row IMS failure rate is significantly less? I'd imagine this to be the case seeing that the 99s were excluded from the IMS settlement. Is there any merit to the thought that the 99 may be the most reliable of the 996 model years?

After continuing my search for the past few weeks, narrowing in on 99s or 00s to take advantage of the dual row IMS, I've came across a Silver 99 Coupe. It's a tiptronic which I'm split on but I do plan on driving it in traffic as my daily driver so it might be the right option. It's a US car imported to Canada in 2005 and has since lived in Alberta for the past 12 years. It has 72,000 miles (117 000km). The body is in excellent shape for the age and the interior is in good shape, except the seats are worn which seems to be common. The car is show room clean and only driven in the summer the last few years. The current owner has had it 3 years, and does not have any service records himself or from previous owners. I ran a carproof and it comes back accident free and matches what the current owner told me. The asking price is 19,000$ Canadian which is approximately 14,500$ US. Sale is pending a PPI, which I now have to sort out. with the lack of records I'm leaning to a very thorough PPI. What tests should I request to be done? I've heard conflicting information on leak down and compression tests. My plan is to get a checklist review (tires, brakes, etc) plus boroscoping the cylinders and cutting open the oil filter. Is there anything specific to check on the tiptronic unit? My reading seems to indicate they are fairly reliable units. Last thing is the option sticker is where it should be but is so faded it cannot be read so I can't determine all the options. Is there any other way to get the option information?

Option sticker can also be found in the front of the owner's manual.

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I don't know anything about the tip, so can't offer advice there. Sounds like you have a handle on the deal and a great value. Look very careful at the filter pleats. I drained the oil out through a white cotton shirt and checked that as well. Borescope is a great way to check the condition of the cyl walls. If you can hook a durametric, and get some data from that it would be good, but I didn't on my car and it worked out well. You can pay Porsche for the options with the VIN, and someone here may be able to run it too. Hope you find it in the book. congrats, and hope for the best.

comment removed, missed OP's last post.

I spoke with a Tech at Sandy Lane Automotive which is a LN certified IMS Solution installer. For their PPI they do a 85 point inspection and then perform the IMS solution pre-qualification procedure minus scoping the cylinders. They will drop the sump and inspect for particles and debris, cut open the filter, and send oil off for analysis.They quote about 3 hours for the job and a cost of 600$ Cdn. Overall I think that is a thorough inspection. It doesn't do the boroscoping and I could add that into the mix but that might be another 300$. I feel if it has scoring issues they would be evident in either a ticking sound or soot on the exhaust. Would bore scoring also show up in an oil analysis?

Whelp, this is what was presented to me when I bought mine. And I declined, here's why. Cosmetics, condition, operational stuff I can do myself. So - take your '85 point' inspection and shove that. What I wanted specifically. 1) Remove the pan, inspect the sump for debris. 2) Remove the filter, cut it open, and inspect for particles. 3) Borescope all jugs, and inspect for scoring. So, I asked around and they didn't want to do the hard stuff, they wanted to get paid for the easy stuff. IMNSHO - You are better off getting your own borescope off ebay, hooking it up to your laptop, and looking in there yourself. Then find a shop who will remove and replace the sump plate, while you do the inspection. Sadly, most shops are lazy on the '85 point' inspection and the billing seems out of line. $600 for 3 hours to do what I can do in one-two hours? Eff that. What you need them for is the tough stuff that a buyer can't do themselves.

here you go ... http://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/e...ationFlag=true

http://scanautomotive.com/portfolio/...era-996_s0003/

Well, I'm now the new owner of a 1999 Arctic Silver C2 Tiptronic. Had the car inspected this afternoon, and made the purchase this evening. Car is still sitting at the mechanics, waiting for abit better weather to get it home. The car needs new rear tires right away. My plan is to drive it atleast 3 seasons so i'm looking at getting some Winter tires right away. I've found some boxster 17 inch rims for sale that should fit my 996. I see the standard winter tires recommended by Porsche are 205/50 R17 and 255/40 R17. The 205s seems easy to find, however it seems very few manufacturers still make a 255/40R17 winter. Does anyone know what a modern equivalent size would be?

Congrats, hope it's all you wanted. 245/45x17 will be .6" taller and slightly narrower. Will go on the 8 or 8.5" rims fine. Several winter offerings.