31 captured repliesDiscussion pagination complete · Source accounts, not a confirmed diagnosis
THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHLow temp thermostat?
Reported or suspected cause
temperature of the thrust face of bank 2
Reported cause
No successful repair reported for this finding.
1
Identified cause
0
Suspected cause
0
Reported fixes
Read evidence and context
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that report identifying a cause
1
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Reported cause
The issue is the temperature of the thrust face of bank 2.
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
I will say that my temps run exactly the same as it did before the swap, and the same as everyone else's I've seen posted, regardless of which thermo they have.
Leading evidence: 'temperature of the thrust face of bank 2' (1 discussions report identifying this cause; no attributable repair resolution). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'temperature of the thrust face of bank 2' (1 discussions; 1 report identifying it and 0 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Run exactly the same as it did' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
Source reports, not a diagnosis or a success probability. Counts refer to discussions and can overlap.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that contain suggestions
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Suggestion
I will say that my temps run exactly the same as it did before the swap, and the same as everyone else's I've seen posted, regardless of which thermo they have.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
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Suggestion
The low temp thermostat may read at an incorrect temp if you are running the incorrect weight oil.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that contain suggestions
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Suggestion
You can test these things before you put them in to make sure they work.
These are separate views of the same evidence. Frequency alone does not establish a fix, and these counts must not be added together.
Run exactly the same as it did
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
I will say that my temps run exactly the same as it did before the swap, and the same as everyone else's I've seen posted, regardless of which thermo they have.
Counts describe captured discussions, not unique people or a diagnosis. Author identities are not reliably stored. Exact duplicate evidence is counted once across matching discussions; one discussion counts at most once per action/state. Multiple repairs reported together remain a combination. Suggestions and failed attempts do not establish a fix. Matches cover whole discussions and can include related faults, model variants and incomplete threads.
31 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
0 evidence records excluded for query context · 0 excluded by outcome qualification · 0 adjusted by outcome qualification.
0 acknowledgements have no verified action link; they do not establish a repair result.
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Any thoughts on LN Engineering vs Wahler low temp thermostats. The LN is just the thermostat for $106.50 US, whereas the Wahler is $41.25 US for the gasket, the thermostat and the cover. Plus shipping of course. This is from Pelican Parts.
Both seem to have good reviews, but the price difference is huge. Wahler is an OEM supplier to Porsche.
http://lnengineering.com/160f-low-te...e-install.html
Our 160F low temperature thermostat is not available from any other vendor and features a calibrated, German-made 160F thermostat. It is calibrated to allow thermostat opening a full 20-25F degrees earlier than the factory thermostat.
Good grief!
That's some great marketing dribble
Of course a LN thermostat is not available from any other vendor. Doesn't make it any better. I would guess that a Wahler 160 deg thermostat also opens 20-25 deg earlier than the factory 180 deg one. Likely it too is German made as well
Well...yeah.
Wahler, an aftermarket subsidiary of BorgWarner. Location Kirchheimbolanden, Germany
http://emissions.borgwarner.com/aftermarket
Also Beru.
Careful, usually the cheaper wahler is the standard temp. I think the 54 dollar one is what you want, but read the description carefully to be sure.
I have a wahler in my boxster and it opened as advertised
I have the 160 F thermostat in my Mk I, don't remember which brand. I will say that my temps run exactly the same as it did before the swap, and the same as everyone else's I've seen posted, regardless of which thermo they have. According to my stock gauge, the needle rests in the middle of the "0" of 180 when fully warmed up in any season. Maybe it just opens sooner, just my .02.
Do we know the manufacturer of the "$54" low temperature thermostat ? Motorad?Pelican sell it.
The link below may help explain this LTT issue.It is about cylinder deformation,not just cooling.If we only discuss cooling and price we miss the point?
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...rmostat-4.html
My engine runs a fair amount cooler with the 160� thermostat. Unless I'm sitting in traffic, she will never warm above the 180� hash mark. And if she does while sitting in traffic, she will cool back down to the hash mark once she's been on the highway.
I was really surprised how much of a difference the low temp t-stat made. Previously she would always sit between the 8 and 0 and frequently the needle would sit on the right side of 0 if in traffic on a hot Texas summer day.
According the Hartech and Jake Raby ,the problem reduced by installing a LTT is cylinder deformation. The temperature spikes that cause cylinder deformation are not indicated by a high coolant temp gauge reading - because it does not measure the temp of the critical part of the cylinder .
The problem IIRC is lack of adequate flow around the vulnerable area. Once the OEM Tstat is partially closed ,flow to the vulnerable area (Bank 2 thrust face) is inadequate and cylinder overheating occurs - but is not measured by the stock instruments.
The LTT stays open longer and reduces this issue. The next stage is to modify flow in the coolant console and the cylinder head gasket and water jackets.
If cylinder deformation is the concern, the stock coolant temperature gauge in the instrument cluster is not a direct measure of the problem.It is barely an indirect measure. And driver anecdotes are obviously not a substitute for cylinder temperature measurements.
If coolant boiling is the problem ,that is a different discussion.
A simple way to measure bore thrust face temps on 4 ,5 & 6 would help.Anything closer to this area than the coolant temp sensor would help.
Just follow the coolant temp flow chart- the coolant sensor is a long way in the wrong direction from the critical area.
If you want to reduce engine bay temps, just reposition the sensor closer to the crankcase.It takes a few minutes.
I am not an expert so do your own research .
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...with-pics.html
Best investments I made was T-stat and center rad. Everything worked better. Engine efficiency, AC, fans, oil pressure, hot start - all improved.
Once a thermostat opens it stays full open until the water temps drops below the opening temps. Common sense to me. All this bull **** about cooling temp spikes and cylinder deformation will not change if the pump opens at a higher or lower temperature. The thermo can only close again as the water temp drops below the point of the temp when it first opened. That is when the engine is turned off and the water temp drops again. Next you are going to tell me that there are 3 persons in one God, that a virgin can have a child and that heaven is above us and hell is underneath us. All man made crap. Give me a break.. please.
I "Think" (and I may be wrong) the logic behind the low temp thermostat is that when the t-stat opens at the lower 160 degree temp, the circulating coolant is able to better moderate potential hot spots. Yes, the eventual operational temperature will be the same, but there will be less of a "shock" to certain localized areas due to coolant being present where it might not have been had the t-stat not opened yet... It's not nearly as complicated or absurd as the trinity...
What specific ,better alternative do you have to a LTT to reduce the risk of cylinder deformation ?
It is a significant issue because it is one of the main reasons an M96 or M97 crankcase is condemned as un-rebuildable. That is a sad day for someone who wanted to rebuild their engine.Yes, you can ignore the ovality and slap it back together but that is a standard of rebuilding that would be unacceptable to most of us.
BTW the coolant temp does not drop when the engine is turned off.It spikes. And the lack of flow with the engine off pertains to this very issue.
Have you read the articles written by Hartech ?Dporto gets it.
The issue is the temperature of the thrust face of bank 2. Not coolant temperature. There is often no direct correlation between coolant temp (per the gauge)and thrust face temperatures because of the inadequate flow and sub-optimal circulation path issues mentioned before and discussed at length and with credibility by Baz at Hartech. If anyone can refute the research done by Hartech & Raby ,their data would be a welcome contribution to a
technical
discussion.
after the water spikes, THEN does the water cool down or does it keep on spiking and spiking? Oh and is it the spike that does the deformation to the cylinders? Or is it the thrust face at Bank 2 that heats the water up just at that area when the water stops flowing. I mean this is really interesting ****. I will be able to sleep much better now I know about this bull**** explanation of how deformation occurs in a cylinder. Holy Christ wheres that brick wall .
If you only drive in stop and go traffic, then you'll see zero difference on the temp gauge with a low temp t-stat. If you're only on the highway, your temp needle will stay much lower and not rise. If you go from stop n go to the highway, the needle will drop.
The M96's coolant system appears to have extra cooling capacity, but only if you have a t-stat that allows it to utilize it. This is not ethereal on my car as I see the before/after with mine after installing a low temp t-stat.
What kind of oil oil do you use?
