Can You Trust A PPI?

I had my car up for sale as I wanted to get a coupe. Had a buyer so hauled the car 250 miles and we had a high end shop do a PPI. They came back and said it needed a bunch of work and it would cost $4K to get it all done. So it cost me the sale. I'm actually happy about it though as I have decided to keep the car and fix everything, then make some minor changes in appearance. Then drive the wheels off it! One of the things they said was that the water pump was leaking. I asked how badly, just seeping or water pouring out leak? They said it was really bad and that I shouldn't drive the car until it was replaced (they quoted $1100 to replace!). So I towed the car home and ordered a water pump. Today I decided to start the project. Pulled the air box out, loosened the belt and took a look at the pump. Couldn't see any signs of leakage from above so got the car in the air and looked from below. No signs of leakage anywhere that I can see. I spun the pulley by hand and it was firm with no wobble or noise. I don't see anything wrong with this pump at all (see photos). They also said the RMS was leaking badly. I figured I was going to have to replace that as well. Then I thought, "Wait a minute, this car hasn't dripped any oil on my garage floor. How bad can it be leaking?". I took a look and there is oil at that area but not too bad. It appears that maybe the oil filter housing is leaking a bit? I'm going to replace it with a spin on anyway. I wiped all the oil off the engine and will monitor the leak. They told me the cabin filter was dirty and needed replacing. I took it out and there were some minor debris but that was it. The filter is gray in color so maybe they thought it was dirt? They also told me two of my wheels were bent. I jacked up the car and spun the wheels and didn't see any sign of bends. I took out my dial indicator and checked the rim of all 4 wheels and they are not bent! The power steering fluid is low so I'll top that off. They said the radiators need to be cleaned. This is a 1999 car with 66K miles on it so I imagine that is probably an accurate diagnosis. I'll tackle that project next. The airbag light is on which is the seatbelt couple. I knew this before the inspection. I just have to replace the buckle assembly. They said it was due for a service. The oil was changed by the previous owner (Mobil 1) about a year ago and maybe 2K miles ago. I'm going to pull the filter and cut it open to check for particles. As mentioned, I'll replace with a spin on conversion. Not sure if I need to change the oil again but probably will do so as it is cheap insurance. I'll replace the spark plugs and do any other required maintenance. So anyway, I'm happy to be working on the car and look forward to driving it more. I have no idea why this shop would call out items for replacement when not needed. I don't want to speculate or make any accusations. Once I go through everything to make this car 100% I may take it to a local shop and have them give it a once over. If they find any issue with the water pump then I'll go ahead and replace it as I have the part (I'd have to get Porsche coolant). Has anyone else found the condition of their car conflicting with what the PPI found?

It all depends on the shop, but it does sound like this one screwed you though. Congrats on making lemonade out of it though

We do PPI's. I always recommend them. BUT I also always say: 1. use a Competent & Honest Indie. Both ,not one. 2. Ask here for referrals.You would be amazed at the poor ratings on some of the big name specialists - they are only as good as their Techs. If you treat a Tech well, you never have trouble hiring the best. We only hire happy people. A dishonestly negative PPI is sometimes used by the shady Indie to try to 'buy' work or even buy the car below value. A few leaks and minor defects are fine.Just stay on top of them. Half the battle is just knowledgeable inspection. We actually fire customers so those we keep have a sort of partnership deal with us .They keep alert about issues with their car,they let us do ALL the serious service and repair work .And we always tell them what we find. More important for your PPI - we send them photos of leaks and problems. One example - we encourage the more technical ones to keep an old code reader in the car. That way they can call us on the road if a CEL pops up and we can decide if it is time to call a FlatBed or not. And we do house calls if the coffee is good. Well done with the repairs you plan to do and especially those you eliminated. One of the best techniques for preventing a man 'straying; is an interesting car and a good set of tools !Tell your wife !

It's interesting (to me) that any shop doing a PPI didn't remove the oil filter, that cartridge cover wasn't even touched. You'd think with the amount of oil on it and the visible drip at the bottom that the tech would have at least tried to hand tighten it a bit more to be sure it was tight and then note it on the report. That seems like a lot more than 2000 miles (since last change and presumably loose canister) of "dripped" oil spread around the area if you've never even had a drip on the floor. The waterpump should have a weep hole at the bottom that should give you an idea if it is leaking/going bad. It also seems weird that the PPI was that far away, you'd think there were places in Sacramento. Makes you wonder about the buyer, frankly. Where'd you go, the SF Peninsula? The initials of the shop weren't GAK by any chance?

Congrats you found a shop willing to stoop to fraud. I would document the PPI issues that you can prove were not needed and send it all to your state BAR. Particularly if the shop said they would do all the repairs(that were not needed). Since you had it towed home, that's another charge you can hit them with when you sue them in small claims. Or, you can just complain here, not name the shop, not do anything about it and let them screw the next Porsche customer.

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No mention was made of the oil filter canister. I don't think they touched it either. No sign of coolant at weep hole. I'm in SoCal and buyer is in Vegas. We both agreed to this shop in Vegas as it supposedly has a good rep but known to be expensive. Neither of us had dealt with them before although I found out after that they charged a friend of mine $7500 to replace the clutch in his 996!

Pick one from here? http://www.pcarshops.com/near/las-vegas-nv

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Not sure what I'm going to do right now. I don't know if NV has a BAR or not. I did name the shop in a previous thread (My Car Is Sick). I don't have any written report from the shop to document their findings as the buyer had paid for the PPI so they didn't give me anything. Everything was told to me verbally. I towed it over to Vegas on my tiltback trailer and towed it back the same way. I had to do some business while I was there and had to make the trip anyway so no real cost to me. If I still wanted to sell the car I would probably take more action against the shop but not sure at this point. I think once I go through everything and bring it to another shop for another inspection and if they say everything is fine then I'll post up and the shop name here and let everyone know.

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Good info. Thanks.

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Yes, the shop in on that list.

I know Slakker knows a shop that will offer you at least $6000 for the car, even with all the major issues. :-)

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https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...r-is-sick.html http://www.pcarshops.com/near/las-vegas-nv

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I checked, and it appears there is no specific auto repair watchdog, so you would use the AGs office and also the consumer affairs. But - obviously, they didn't write anything down, so nevermind. Makes you wonder why they didn't give a written report doesn't it? Oh well, another ripoff shop. No surprise here.

Hey Spork, glad to hear your car is not as sick as we originally thought. I am looking to take my new 996 to other shops and will avoid this one in the future. Good luck!

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Ha, funny. I thought about that situation too. Still hard to believe that happened and even moreso that the shop owner came on here and confirmed it.

A PPI is only worth as much as you're willing to spend on it and the amount of work the inspecting shop puts into it. In my opinion, a PPI that would give you all of the info you needed to really make an informed 996 buying decision would be prohibitively expensive...and I think most sellers would be reluctant to allow an invasive (i.e. sump plate off) pre-purchase inspection. The buyer wants to know EVERYTHING; the typical seller wants to find NOTHING.

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That is simply a list of shops that say they work on Porsche A better list would be on for tech station for PCA like this one http://www.zone8.org/events/tech_stations.php I would bet that that all are honest and competent as they get used often by many PCA members and news would travel fast if they were screwing people and would be removed from the list

The outrageous amount of litigation over even the most minor things is the reason why shops will err on the side of caution during the PPI. Some shops stopped offering the PPI service because of people suing them if anything goes wrong with the car.

[QUOTE=JayG;13870816]That is simply a list of shops that say they work on Porsche A better list would be on for tech station for PCA like this one http://www.zone8.org/events/tech_stations.php The point of that List was to identify the culprit.It worked.

When we bought our last Cayman, the shop that did the PPI (a local Porsche Indy) came up with a big laundry list of things it "needed." Since I was the buyer and was taking the list to the selling dealership, I didn't care much. But lots of the items were completely unnecessary.

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i think a lot of shops will be looking for extra work to do in the hope the car will be left there and they can make money - and in some cases to cover their *** - but there also also honest shops that will do a good job - recommendation from this forum would be good place to start. i took rangerover I was buying into specialist shop and I) they came up with list of things that were not really problems and ii) missed some obvious things that I discovered later ppi can give you peace of mind that there is nothing catastrophic wrong with a car you are not familiar with - but can also be a big waste of money or worse at the wrong shop

Black Forest in San Diego has never steered me wrong. When I had my post-purchase inspection - because impulse buy - they did a very thorough job and then returned to me with a fairly extensive list organized in three sections: Stuff we recommend ASAP, stuff we recommend sometime soon, and stuff you should do someday when you get around to it. They also know I'm a semi-decent DIYer and indicated all the items "you can probably do yourself."

BLACK MOUNTAIN San Diego. Thanks for the recommendation. Referral is the best way to find an Indie for a PPI. http://www.blackforestautomotive.com/ http://www.pcarshops.com/california/...an-auto-repair

Another great shop in San Diego is Mirage International http://www.mirageintl.com/ between Mirage and Black Forest, you won't go wrong

[QUOTE=targa996;13877211 but there also also honest shops that will do a good job - recommendation from this forum would be good place to start. i took Range Rover I was buying into specialist shop and I) they came up with list of things that were not really problems and ii) missed some obvious things that I discovered later [/QUOTE] As RR specialists I'll give you only one piece of free advice - unless you are an RR specialist yourself. Get a Warranty !

Just ordered the LN spin on filter bundle (adapter, filter and drain plug). The FilterMag is on back order for a couple weeks so they will call me when available. I'll use one of the recommended shops for an inspection once I go through everything else (clean radiators, figure out the p/s fluid loss issue, seatbelt buckle, etc). Going to hold off on replacing the water pump for now. May do it as just a PM thing but will wait and see what the inspection shows.

My PPI indicated that I needed such vitally important items such as wiper replacements, but totally missed the fact that the brake pads were almost gone. That was just one example. Next time I'm going to shop just as hard for a great shop as I do for the car. The Indy wasn't horrible, but they were the only ones available to use in the brief timeframe I had to get the car checked out since I flew across the country to pick it up.

Regrettably, some shops do as much work on a PPI as your average JifiQuikieLube does on their "50 point complimentary safety inspection." This isn't any more surprising than the fact that the stereotypical sleazy mechanics from the 80's still exist in force, and they're still happy to take advantage of people. EVERY time my wife takes her Nissan to the dealership, they inform her that her rear brakes are at 2mm and she really ought to have them done, regardless of how much pad material is really there. One of the BMW dealerships here in town carefully noted the tire pressure in her X5's spare tire...even though her X5 had run-flats and no spare tire. It's a shame that the minority of mechanics that just don't give a damn do such a disservice to the ones that actually take pride in their work.