Looking at 996

Hi, I'm looking at a 2003 996 Cab for sale in N. CA. I have the VIN, can anyone point me to a source that can decode the VIN for me? Thanks,

So I found the VIN decoder and have the build sheet. This is what it has: Midnight Blue Metallic with Graphite Grey supple leather seats, Metropol Blue top - nice color combination IMHO Tip S wind deflector Bose sound heated front seats P15 power seats colored wheel caps and that's it. listed new at $89k Porsche Dealer will take $22k 52,000 miles will need new tires and has one bent wheel that will need repair/replacement and a couple minor cosmetics, needs service, cab roof adjustment to fold back with proper fit. Thoughts?

That seems steep for needing a wheel and top work. I would also be concerned if anything else is bent other than the wheel.

Do you have a link to the car? I agree, seems a bit steep.

Ask them to fix the issues and maybe you're in the $19-$20k ballpark. Especially with it being a Tippy.

That seems to be in the range of what I'm seeing 996 cab/tips going for. The dealer link is down now as they are getting ready to wholesale it due to it's age and the cosmetics. The mechanic that did the inspection said he didn't see any other signs of damage. Seems to cause a vibration at 60-70 mph, so it could just be a balancing issue. But it sounds like from you are saying, i should have more dollars to wring out of the dealer. This car would sit alongside my 968 in my garage to keep it company.

$17-18k anywhere else. Stealership tax may take up near $20k, but not over. If they are stuck, stuck on $22k, and it's what you want, make them fix the wheel, and send it out for the LN bearing on their dime. Do the cosmetics yourself, or at a detail shop. Test the hell out of the top. Many, many times. And then test it again.

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NADA suggests with the miles (worth a price premium (bump) of $5125!) and Bose ($175) the car should retail for $29,125 (in "clean" condition). Its clean trade-in value is $25,300 The car based on what you posted: "they are getting ready to wholesale it due to it's age and the cosmetics."; I think qualifies for average to a bit less than average condition, bordering on rough condition. There is no average condition retail price given but the average condition trade-in value drops to $23,075. That the dealer appears to be seeking just $22K is a bit suspicious. Or the condition of the car is "rough" and that drops the trade-in value down to $20,450. A $22K "quick" sale then the seller could stand to make a tidy $2K profit but given the car's condition I would hazard a guess the seller has less than even $20,450 in the car. That bent wheel almost certainly has knocked the alignment out. Hopefully it hasn't damaged the suspension or steering or drivetrain hardware. For a bent wheel I'd treat the car like it has had a minor accident -- even if no plastic or metal body panels were damaged -- and I'd be very leery of the car until I could have a Porsche tech look over the car on alignment rack and assure me he could align the car without having to use up any more than just the usual adjustments. If you still want the car -- and not recommending you should want the car -- and if the dealer is getting ready to wholesale the car, offer the dealer a wholesale price, say $20K. If the dealer balks, and it will, up your offer by $250. If the dealer balks again, and it will, walk. But walk slowly, out the door. Your offer just might get accepted. The dealer sells the car to you rather than having to take the car to an auto auction -- there's the cost of hauling it there -- and then possibly having to pay a seller's fee. And he's only going to get a rough wholesale price for the car anyhow. But I'm not sure you should want this car. It has some rough edges that give me 2nd and 3rd thoughts.

Very good input, thanks Macster! The dealer (Porsche dealer) was asking $24,500 initially, claims it came in on a trade-in, so the real dealer cost is pretty hard to pin down. Their mechanic said it looked good mechanically and certainly could drive it the 800 miles back to AZ no problem, but a PPI will certainly be in order, esp to see about alignment issues you mentioned. Apparently when they put it up on the rack it looked ok but they found enough little issue to decide to wholesale it. The dealer tech notes was that he attempted to balance the rear wheels and found the RR wheel was bent. Could be a really bent rim and that does mean something hard was hit. I haven't seen the car in person, just emailed photos, and it appears clean externally and internally, but cell phones take crap pictures. They did describe that the visors need new covers, is that a common issue with 996 cabs? I'll check with my local dealer tomorrow on the price of a replacement wheel if that's required. I sort of suspect it is based on what the selling dealer tech said. They didn't smog it due to decision to wholesale it out, so it doesn't say if it would have passed or failed, but smog testing is not done where I live, except that could have drivability issues. I've kissed a lot of frogs in my search, I'm digging deeper on this one to see if there's a prince hiding in there with a little work on my part.

His take in value is closer to $17k if it was on a trade up. They moved a new car in fall/winter to help make payroll. Stick at ~$18k. More fish in the sea. Once bought, you won't get anything from the dealer but a cuppa and a handshake.

I won't even get the cuppa since I live out of the area, too far to drop in.

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Remember every thing a car salesman tells you is intended to get you to buy the car as soon as possible and to pay as much for the car as possible. If the car came in on a trade-in the odds are the dealer has less in the car than the published 'trade-in" values. Dealers like to say they use the "back of the book" to arrive at their trade-in values, the ones they allow the owner when he trades the car in, and these are always lower than the published/public numbers. The car looks ok on the rack cause the tech counted 4 wheels/tires. You need an alignment done -- at least this is what I think I'd do were I in your shoes -- to see if the car is out of alignment and if a wheel is bent it is. Heck, I just brushed a curb with the rear tire of my Boxster -- didn't even scuff the wheel -- and the alignment was out enough the tire wore faster than the other rear tire and when I got new tires fitted and had the alignment checked/set sure enough the alignment rack told the story. Then the question becomes how far out of alignment. In the case of my Boxster the alignment was out but not very much at all and just a touch of adjustment brought it back into spec. Nothing was bent thankfully. If the tech reports/finds that just a slight twist of an adjuster is all that is needed then that's good news. If he finds he has to crank the adjustment all the way in one direction or the other or he can't bring the settings alignment into spec, or has to adjust some other setting a lot to kind of get the settings into something close to spec, that's not good news. Really I'm always leery of -- for leery read I walk away from -- a car that I have to go above and beyond my standard used car check out and road test to know if I should buy the car or not. There are other cars out there that one doesn't have to go to this level of investigation to know the car's ok. Furthermore, it raises a big red flag that a dealer is willing to forgo a retail sale which should result in a nice profit (used car profit margins are pretty darn good the markup can be 25% or higher) and instead just wholesale the car and take a small loss -- from the expense of wholesaling the car -- for a few "little issues". And no smog test? I would like to see the car pass smog. That's a good indication the engine and all its sensors is healthy, along with the exhaust system. Visors? You are worried about visors? That's like worrying about the ice maker on the Titanic... Really, the visors in my Boxster are ok, that is look ok. I broke the mirror cover on the passenger side. Visors can get a bit beat up though and being touched by human hands often isn't good for them. (Some humans have rather toxic skin oils that can play havoc with some materials in the interior of a car.) Plus visors in a Cab get some pretty intense exposure to sunlight which can't help them. (I never put the top down on my Boxster.) But I don't think visors would be the deal killer here. You have to be careful that you don't fall in love with the car *before* you buy it. That's dangerous. Look at every car like it is a piece of crap. Push yourself to find a good reason to reject the car. Only when you can't find a good reason, or even a kind of good reason to reject the car, then maybe, just maybe, you have found your next used car. The first rule of used car shopping is there is always another car.

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Man, if my PPI had found that faulty visor I would have ran, not walked, fast as I could go!

Free the Woodman

If the visor was the biggest deal with this car it would be in my garage already. But it may be an indicator of the PO's level of care for the car if they don't tend to be a wear item in general. Heck, my 914 didn't even have a visor and I still bought it! Of course it ended up stripped for the track anyway. The wheel is of more concern and I will request they run an alignment on it to see what's up. Along with a full PPI. Trying to dig thru the car before popping for the PPI $, to make sure it's worth spending the PPI $. There's also a gap in the service records I need to call the original dealer about, can't find the 37,500 service in the records so if the oil has been unchanged for several years that's a deal killer for me. I approach car buying with a "and just why should I buy this one" attitude. Sounds like that's not uncommon or unwarranted.

If you buy the car in CA and drive it home yourself I believe they are REQUIRED to charge you sales tax at the point of sale now. Yes I know that if you lived in CA you would be charged sales tax for the city you live in, but not out of state, last time I checked it was at the point of sale (I was looking into buying a CA car to take back to CO last year and that was the line given by several dealers. You may or may not be able to recoup that from AZ when you register it. However if you have them haul it to the state line then no tax. Check into it, it may be cheaper to transport it than pay the tax but in that case you'd want to go to CA and try it out yourself before signing for it. I also believe the tires have to have a minimum tread depth if sold in CA. Maybe you want to replace them bacause of age? But if due to tread depth or lack thereof, that's something else to look into the law first. If you haven't laid eyes on it yourself ask someone here who lives nearby if they can eyeball it for you. At the prices you are talking it's hopefully better than you are describing. Wheels are easy, all kinds of 18" factory options all over ebay and craigslist for under $1000 for a set of 4. No way would I buy a single replacement wheel from a dealer. Good luck, please keep us posted but if you walk away from this one nobody here will call you a fool...

tires are $1000

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Good point Woody! And if the cupholder doesn't work, we all know the car isn't worth much more than a roller. Heck, it can have ticking sounds, smoke out the tail pipe, and all the MIL lights on, but if the cupholder doesn't work, you might as well dust your shoes off and wash your hands of that car and move on to the next one. Word up?

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Cupholders? These cars have cupholders? My 968 doesnt. My 911sc , 914 and 356 didnt. Are these sportscars or restaurants???? Another item to check out during PPI.

996 mk2 (2003) has cupholders like a pricey movie theater. 996 mk 1 - is a real sportscar, sans cupholders. 968 real sports car. muuuaauahahahhahauahahaaaa!!!

1st rule of PPI: NEVER have it done by selling dealer.

I think the dealer is being somewhat up front. It is common for dealers to wholesale or send to auction their trade ins. Like this car, they would keep the car for a month, put on a low price to generate traffic. If nothing comes of it, they will pawn it off--inventory is money. There is a big market for wholesaling out--thats how all those small used car lots get their inventory by being chummy with car dealerships. I would be more wary about the top fitment. To have it adjusted can be very time consuming and costly; and if they need a part would need an overhaul.

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+996. = $$$$$

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Exactly, asking for a "PPI" from the wrong person can be embarrassing. Just ask Tom Cruise, he'll tell ya!

So I'm passing on this car. There's a 6 year gap in the service records that can't be found. Too much risk it didn't get serviced properly. Guess that's another kissed frog that didn't turn into a prince. I will keep looking. I have a really great 968 sitting in my garage, without a factory cupholder, that will keep me going until I find the perfect 996. Thanks for all the sage advice. Maybe what I need to do is start to define the perfectly optioned car as a guidance (psm, pasm, pdq, 40-way electric seats, power visors, etc.)

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I think you made the right decision.

Wise decision weedhopper. This is what I often counsel. Wait until you find what you really want. It's out there somewhere.