Replacing a good dual row IMS?

Hey guys, I'm in the process of buying a nice 996 with rather low miles (45k-ish). Car's a late 98 build so I expect to find a dual row IMS, especially since there is no history of it having ever been changed. The clutch in the car is still strong and I'd say it's got a fair few miles left in it. Being after a worry-free driving experience, I elected to have the IMS & clutch swapped out upon receipt of the car, especially since the shop is "only" asking for about $2500 for the lot, which is rather cheap for the area. The car won't be driven much, maybe 3-4k/year at the most (I'm lucky enough to commute by bicycle). Is a low-miles clutch and IMS swap a good idea? Or should I keep my hard-earned greenbacks? BR, Alex

There is a solid chance you could drive the car for years without trouble from the IMS. But piece of mind sometimes will cost you. I�d go with the replacement just so you don�t have it to worry about. I did the same with mine (though my car has a single row). The bearing in my car was pristine.

Take my advice and make sure you trust the shop 100%, and use a high-quality IMSB like the LN Retrofit. When I bought my C2, I had the selling shop replace the IMSB and it grenaded after two years. Had I kept the original dual row, it would probably still be running fine.

Here is a 72k mile dual row from a 2/98 car the owner had me do an "elective" IMSB service on.. --Aaron

Replace it since you're in there. More often than not, it's the low mile examples that tend to have IMS problems. Its a part that requires lubrication and healthy oil. Not using the car is not helping preserve the IMS.

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Thanks for sharing those pics. Is this a good looking bearing or bad? Looks like a small retaining clip broke?

Do not simply swap out an older IMS bearing for a new IMS bearing unless it is from LN Engineering, EPS or is Direct Feed or you are just replacing one ticking time bomb with another. I don't understand how your shop can do this job for so little unless they are quoting the labor only. The lower cost LN Engineering bearing is nearly $1,000 and a clutch maybe something close. If you do go with the LN Engineering product, make sure you send back, or have the shop send back the old bearing and register the new one. While they are in there, makes sense to replace the rear main seal (RMS). It isn't an expensive part. Let us know how it goes.

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Have the IMS Solution installed if you�re looking for a �worry-free� driving experience. ( not sure if there�s any such thing with the M96) You�ll never have to worry about the IMS bearing again. Just remember to change the fuel injectors too.

Bad, and caught in the nick of time before it 86d the engine. And Thanks Ben8Jam for the pictures. Seeing the seal deteriorating is quite interesting. When I replaced mine (with LN Engineering retrofit), the one that came out was clearly a Porsche dealer replacement of the original and looked like new. So my 996 is on its third IMS bearing and quite happy about it.

philbert996, what is the risk on the fuel injectors? It may be the only thing that hasn't been replaced...yet. Theo

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Not my pics, I was asking Rennpart if the pics he was showing were of a good or bad dual row.

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This!

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Leaking fuel injectors have been found to cause bore scoring. At 24 years old they�re due for replacement. Use new OEM Porsche injectors only! NOT aftermarket or rebuilt/refurbished/remanufactured

You can easily do some investigative work before deciding. Take an oil sample and have it analyzed for particles, cut open you oil filter to look for metal fragments, and check your cam deviations. If these all are good then you have some time to decide your course of action. I followed this process with my dual-row car and eventually had the IMS done when the RMS started leaking. The removed bearing was in pristine condition, but for piece of mind I decided to have it replaced anyway. Also, if your decide to change the clutch then a flywheel will also be in the cards, so you need to factor that into your budget as well. AOS replacement or UAOS upgrade should also be considered once in that area. I suspect the $2500 quote would balloon to 4K+ quite easily.

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Alex, your car is 25 years old. The IMS bearing is a wear item just like your clutch, flywheel, pressure plate, and transmission's throwout bearing. Change it out with a reputable Porsche shop. Do the RMS and AOS too! You Tube

Philbert996, are the Bosche OEM ok, or do we have to go for the $300+ Porsche branded one? Thanks.

I have a 99 Carrera with 81k, I did replace the bearing with the IMS solution, just to never worry about that again, and glad that I did it, the old bearing was very wobbly, I don't think it would last very long, on my 02 cents even when I hear that the dual row it is not a big issue, is still a 20-year-old part that the seals had been degraded and the oil has washed the internal grease so it was running with little lubrication that won't last forever, I did remove the seals and it did not have any grease, might a very circumstantial thing. Regardless, I'll consider putting a new bearing than running the old one.

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The Bosch are fine as are the aftermarket ones that LN sells. Having your original rebuilt by a reputable company is also an option.

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I didn�t know that .2 injectors were $300 a piece! .1s are �only� $100, so $600 for a new set of OEM isn�t that bad. At $1,800, I�d be looking for an alternative too. But most people that I trust recommend staying away from rebuilt injectors for the M96.

Posting this to give you a different view. When replaying the clutch I would check the IMS bearing for play and base my decision on that. If leaving it in, I would remove the seal. I left mine in after doing the above on my 99 C2 at 112k miles (currently 120k miles).

Thanks for all the responses, I'll keep the appointment with the shop to do the IMS then. The guys uses both LN & EPS but has a slight preference for the latter. RMS is also included in the job. Picking up the car tomorrow (well, actually later today being that it's past midnight here)

The LN Engineering folks aren't keen on the roller bearing and they have a point https://lnengineering.com/products/t...-bearings.html So you should read this if you haven't already. As an engineer, I would have thought the roller bearing was best, but I did like the ceramic materials used in the IMS Retrofit. Let us know how it goes!

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Shocking that a someone wouldn't like a competing company's design. Oh wait they do like the roller bearing they sell.

I like to follow Lee Jenkins of Hartech, UK. The EPS bearing seems to be more popular in Europe. Every month Lee is posting another failure associated with EPS. Contact Lee and let him tell you want he thinks about the EPS roller bearing. Look how it doesn't sit flush on the shaft. It tends to grind into the flange. In this case, it appears it broke the center bolt.

Got a 996.2 with 61.5k miles. Replaced my oem imsb a long time ago with the LN Retro. Just replaced it again with the Retro last year. Here is a picture of it after 10+ years and alot of track days. As a side note, I ran Millers Nano 5w40 throughout that time and changed the oil approximately every 600+ miles. Fresh oil for the track, changed the oil after being on the track, as well as 2x a year if I didn't track the car at all. No bore scoring and good oil tests. Good parts with fresh oil matters. It still looks brand new. But it does need to be replaced in contrast to the LN Solution. Bet the dual row imsb is in the same boat. Everything wears with usage and age.

Yikes!

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LN Engineering sells an injector that's not Porsche branded. I'd trust that.

Make sure the car has the original engine and wasn�t a Porsche replacement early in its life. I have a 99 which I believed to be a dual row until I pulled the IMS using the LN tools and to my dismay it was a single row since I didn�t check the engine serial number.

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This is a very good point. Apparently quite a few engines were replaced under warranty by Porsche for RMS issues. My 2002 targa had a replacement engine and none of the service records say a word about it.

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checked and left original IMS bearing in @120k and now at 120k! I salute you sir! I�m at 120k on original IMS bearing and oil analysis and filter autopsy are clean�..

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slight preference for EPS? Any details on why that is?

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I have explained this in previous threads, but I will nonetheless explain it again. We were approached by SSF Imported Auto Parts many years ago as they wanted a roller bearing due to requests from independent shops that were not happy with the other available roller bearing kits. They considered available products at the time and did not want to offer any of them. The roller bearings used by other companies have historically been the lowest quality, one example URB from Romania. Second issue is that these roller bearings do not have captured center races and they can only handle thrust in one direction. If you remove cost out of the equation, there are roller bearings that have captured center races and can handle thrust both fore and aft, like the bearing we selected for the RND kit we manufactured for SSF. Another issue is that other roller bearing kits have no positive retention for the bearing. Short of the massive roller bearing used for the 06-08 shaft in place of the 6305 bearing, all the other roller bearings out there have lower load ratings than the one used in the RND kit. I will add that the claims made by others as to their bearing being X times stronger are completely false and misleading. You can see actual load ratings here for the popular bearings used by all manufacturers: https://imsretrofit.com/roller-bearings/ We originally considered a roller bearing but chose against it for the original IMS Retrofit for several reasons: 1) Porsche didn't use a roller bearing - they used a ball bearing. Anywhere a roller bearing is commonly used, it's paired with a ball bearing, like in the transmission. The roller bearing typically is not designed to take the thrust loads, hence the fact they can only take 10% of total load as thrust. 2) When we first introduced the IMS Retrofit, there was significant skepticism, even many saying the IMS issues was made up. This was years before the Eisen class action lawsuit brought attention to this issue. Again, since Porsche used a ball bearing, we assumed this was for thrust control as the other end of the shaft has a plain bearing without thrust control. 3) We chose a ceramic hybrid ball bearing to replace the conventional ball bearing due to our past experience with sintered silicon nitride, which the ***** are made from. We used that material to make camshaft lifters years ago when conventional cams and lifters were failing (due to the reformulation of engine oils which ultimately was the original cause of the issue). The ceramic lifters and cams would never show any wear. 4) Ceramic hybrid bearings are commonly used in performance powersports and motorsports applications where cost is not an issue.

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Here we go again. We're overdue for another round of a Raby employee, installer or related party smearing a competitor. This poster, Zuffen-whatever, is Jake's video guy, by a changed name of course (how does one do that?). So much wrong here, that bearing is not bad, the 2mm or so beyond the sproket accomodates the wider rollers and is handled by the flange, the bearing never contacts the flange (as poster states) at all since there is a machined thrust type washer in between with oil channels and the broken off nut is what often happens during extraction with ANY of the IMSBs. This bearing is press-fit using loctite so, yeah, it's in there solid. It's really too bad because new members come to the forum hoping to get objective information yet the LN/FSI related parties won't have that. Anyway, here's a picture of an actual failed, so called, "solution" and let's not get started on the many, many ceramic bearing failures, even with low miles. They should be recalled.

Hey guys, Sorry for the lack of response, I am on vacation in Italy with spotty wifi (but great food & sights). Regarding EPS vs LN I spoke with two local shops: -one just felt like the EPS solution was a better built product but didn�t elaborate further -the other used to install about 80 LN IMSB per year but switched to EPS after LN changed their approach about the ceramic IMSB not being a lifetime item anymore. He installs fewer IMSB now (15 or so per year for the last 6 years, says demand for IMSB changes declined as most cars have already been retrofitted) and never had an issue. The guy didn�t diss the LN product and believes most failures are due to improper install rather that a product fault, but just felt better going with EPS from then on. He�d also developed a similar system to the IMS solution for a few rally customers, but thought this type of product was overkill on anything short of a dedicated track car. On a side note, he didn�t like the FVD bearing. Like, at all. In any case, it seems my car is getting the EPS bearing, and the chips will fall where they may. Best case scenario is I�ll never know I made the right choice.

oa

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For the record, it's never had a lifetime warranty. Plus they have always has a service interval, with exception of the IMS Solution, and not even the IMS Solution has a lifetime warranty. It's literally impossible to give any mechanical component a lifetime warranty. Sorry. I can't help if shops don't read the paperwork or try to do even a little bit of homework. Just like if shops don't do a proper pre-qualification and go in with blinders on these cars, ignoring other critical issues before slapping in a new bearing. Even worse, putting a new bearing in when the original has failed or cutting open the block to change the non-serviceable 06-08 bearing, when all that really is needed is pulling the grease seal...

When I purchased my 2001 996 it had 37,000 miles. I had a reputable local shop replace the original IMS with a LN Engineering Retro Fit kit for peace of mind. While everything was apart, also replaced the RMS, 4 cylinder head plugs, and the clutch. Total cost $3500, and now I don't have to hold my breath when I drive.

We install a good bit of LN Engineering bearings. I have seen several failures of OEM bearings, it is not pretty. Here is a dual row from a 72k mile car I removed two years ago as preventative maintenance. The inner race was broken and the bearing fell apart easily when removed, the customer was relieved he avoided an expensive catastrophe. We stick with the innovators of the IMS bearing replacement instead of the imitators . --Aaron

Yeah, I remember back in the late 2000s when Charles released the Retro and was about to release the Solution. We were both working as tech inspectors at a Chicago PCA DE event. He made it very clear to me that the Retro would need to be replaced while the Solution was permanent. That was nearly 20 years ago. I opted for the Retro of which I later refreshed with another Retro.

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I remember a bearing had a lifetime warranty and than it was changed over to every 7 years to replace, even back in the day this was still a hot topic and will always be with the 996

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It's 6 years/75,000 miles, whichever comes first, for the IMS Retrofit. It was 4 years/50k prior to that, but with enough years under our belt with the Classic Dual Row, we upped it to the 6 year when we released the Single Row Pro. If you dig back far enough, you'll find that I would have shared the L10 life for a 6204 series bearing is about 90,000 miles, making several assumptions about speed and load. This was carried out by a bearing engineer. Knowing it has a finite life, a service interval is required. That's where Porsche made their biggest mistake besides changing to a 6204 from the 5204 (dual row).