Dropped the oil sump....w/pics...thoughts...

1999 C2 6spd cab. 65,000 miles on chassis and 42,000 miles on the replacement engine installed in Nov. of 2004. Dropped the pan to see what it looks like in there. From the pics, anyone worried about what they see? What I caught is: 1 of 4 tabs that hold on the rubber oil control window flaps on one side of the oil sump baffle is broken off. A little patch of debris clogging pick up tube screen. A general coat of a blackish gunk coating a good deal of the entire inside. 3 or 4 small brown pieces of plastic (assume it is bits of the chain guides) in the bottom of the oil sump in that pool of oil. Those 4 pieces of plastic (not metal) you see on my thumb came out of the pick up tube screen. Pulled them out with tweezers. 3 are brown 1 is more black. Cut open the filter and it was nearly perfect except for maybe 10 or 15 very very small bits of the brown plastic. I already have the magnetic drain plug. There was a thin coat of grey matter on it. I'm putting on LN spin-on oil filter adapter with this oil change. I use JG DT40 by the way. I'm going to clean out the black film from the sump plate and walls. I'm replacing the entire oil sump baffle which includes the rubber windows due to the missing tab on one side (only $50). And replacing the oil pick up tube o-ring. Reusing the pick up tube since it looks good (no cracks) after I cleaned it. Screen is now clear. Anything I'm missing? Thanks

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monitor your cam deviation as you pads wear, you'll need some goo to reseal the oil pan, and consider this ... http://www.tarett.com/items/986-987-...srk-detail.htm

yours isn't as bad as mine but yeah, found the same stuff. 20150308_205149_zps8qy5vaqt.jpg 20150308_205907_zpsohf2curr.jpg IMG_20150309_193935_zpszudqjyhj.jpg

Been there done that.. Looks like those wear and tear plastic parts with-in that loved Porsche motor. VarioCam pads more than likely.

mine were the timing chain guard rails (as pictured)

There is still some sludge in that engine. Looks like the PO didn't like changing the oil much but most of it has been dissolved with resent oil changes so, keep up the regular oil changes and the engine will clean itself.

I pulled mine the other day to check as I had a couple of little bits of brown plastic and a single black rubbery bit (which I am now pretty convinced was sealant spooge) in my filter when I checked. My pan was nice and clean with zero in the pump screen, whew. It's a good exercise to lower blood pressure

The Radium King gave a good suggestion imho if you plan to keep the car. The OEM plastic baffle part is problematic. There are other kits that may be cheaper but use metal baffles/flaps. More serious is the need for a plan to replace the timing chain paddles.

Thanks guys. No time to read over in detail, rushing to get my dog to the dog park by 5:00. Pictures of my garage w/car lifted. Oil pan, lid, pickup tube, and bolts cleaned ready for install tomorrow. Picking up new sump baffle and o-ring at 2:00 from Vertex Auto (30 minutes from me).

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If you can, don't leave the engine open line that. Bolt the sump plate back with a couple of bolts.

I too replaced my baffle plate, as one tab was broken off. Part number has been superseded to the 997 number. Parts are almost identical, except a small cutaway on the new part See top right corner of the old (left) and new (right)

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Curious.......Why?

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Squirels of course!

and the Wilbury's - cos once they get into your engine - your fooked!!

OP here, follow up: Finished this project. Oil pan and sump cleaned, replaced sump baffle due to broken window control tab, LN Eng. spin on adapter installed, oil pick up tube cleaned, JG DT40 oil topped up. No leaks, pressure good at all revs. All seems well. Also took the accessory/serpentine belt off and checked all the pulleys. However: I think I know the answer to this, but I'll ask anyway. It just so happens that during my test drives afterward I think the clutch is staring to slip. First time I ever noticed it. When I took the serpentine belt off I fail to note the direction. I read that it should be put back on in that same direction. Don't know that I did because I didn't mark it. Here's the silly question, anything I could have done to this belt that would seem to cause symptoms similar to a slipping clutch? A slipping belt doesn't affect power delivery does it? I know it's routed correctly to each pulley but I read somewhere not noting the direction the belt is spinning(direction of travel) and then installing so its traveling the other way is a no-no. But no one mentions why. One post I think said it may cause the belt to wear faster if its replaced in the opposite direction but no nothing major. I have to believe the first sign of my clutch slipping is just coincidence that it happened right as I did this other stuff. But I wanted to run it by you guys just in case. Tomorrow when I can get out of the city, I'm going to do some power starts in upper gears to verify slippage. Thanks

Your clutch slipping is in no way connected to the serpentine belt it's just a belt which picks up power from the crank to power auxiliary items like water pump power steering air con etc Put your hand brake on and bring clutch pedal up to bite point , if it trying to pull the car and bogging down on revs clutch ok, if not the clutch is slipping, only do this as a quick test be careful

From what I can determine my clutch is slipping. So tomorrow morning it's being towed to Vertex Automotive in Miami. Spoke with Wayne and he's going to confirm if it's a clutch issue. If so, I am having that done and also the RMS (upgraded version), AOS, and IMSB while the tranny is out. He's big on the EPS cylindical roller IMS bearing. It has oil feed to it thru the oil pump gear drive which feeds oil thru the IM shaft itself to the bearing. I'm not sold on it yet so I am going to speak with him tomorrow.

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Food for thought. The early double row bearings are known to be the most durable. A double row bearing has twice as many bearings to lubricate as a single row IMS, but the single rows are the ones with supposedly the highest failure rates. If the IMS issue were cause by the lack of sufficient lubrication, as the EPS product claims, then wouldn't the double rows have the highest failures instead of the lowest?.....

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Isla, Here's my dilemma. I do have a 1999 and most likely it would have a dual row ISMB. But the engine was replaced in Nov. of 2004 with 23,000 miles on it due to the oil/coolant intermix. I did not own the car then, it was done by the previous owner. I've spoken to the shop that did the engine swap and have the invoices showing the repair. BUT, of course it is not noted what bearing was in the replacement engine. If the replacement engine was pulled off the shelve at Porsche in 2004, question is, when was it built? It could have been built in 2004. OK then, but what bearing were being used then. Answer the single row. So I could have a single row. Or if the engine was built in 2004, they could have recognized that it was a cable throttle 1999 3.4 and used a double row. But, what if they had no leftover dual rows. They may have put in a single row. Or the engine may have been built in 1999 and put in inventory as a future replacement engine when needed, then it would have a double row bearing. So you see how I don't know what type bearing is in there. Pros to not replacing it when the clutch is done would be: 1) The engine has only 43,000 miles on it (66,000 on chassis). 2) I have service records showing oil changes yearly with Mobile 1 0w40. Never more than 5,000 between changes. Once I pay for the labor to drop the tranny, installing the IMSB is only about $700, $500 of that being the cost of the bearing. Hate to pull a dual row bearing with 43,000 miles with confirmed regular oil changing only to find it in great shape. Then replace it with something less reliable. I'm hoping maybe he can confirm if it is a dual row without removing the flange, if so I may leave it alone. Otherwise I am compelled to replace it.

I understand your dilemma but I think you're missing my point. If you're worried about the IMS, regardless of which one you have, how will a system that's based on providing additional oil flow help you? The robust nature of the the double row compared to the single row should tell you that it's not an issue created by a lack of oil flow. Therefore, installing a system predicated on that design basis might not actually fix what you're hoping to avoid. I've got no personal beef with Vertex and Jake and I have traded contrasting opinions as well, but I don't know how the EPS system actually accomplishes anything in regards to the longevity of the IMS.

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I totally get your point, trust me. I have researched all the retrofits from various companies and they all have merit. Your point of switching to oil fed when oil feeding seems not be the issue, I get, totally. I don't necessarily want the EPS roller bearing, it's just what they push at Vertex. I've only had 24 hours it think about what IMSB remedy to use and really do not prefer one over the other. Honestly I prefer the LN dual row IMSB retrofit. Tomorrow I'm going to ask Vertex if they can do the LN if I choose. I only talked with Wayne for 10 minutes and couldn't think of everything to ask him. My whole point is whether to replace it at all during the clutch replacement, regardless of cost or whose product I use. I was hoping my clutch would hold out until 100K miles. I was very comfortable with the current IMSB in the car lasting that long and willing to accept the risk. I just wanted to cross this bridge a little later. I've owned this car 14 months and have spent nearly nothing fixing things. I've only done PM things, all of which I did myself. I can not complain. H

I contradicted my self saying I really don't prefer one over the other, then saying I actually prefer LN. What I meant to say is, I always felt that when the day came to replace it, I always thought the Dual row LN retrofit would be the way I went. I do believe Raby's IMS Solution is the best, but just to $$$ given value of my car.

You are asking questions that are rather alarming for someone that wants to work on a 996 engine. How did you determine the clutch is slipping and how much experience do you have working on ANY kind of engine?

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Your user name is Rolex.

I thought I saw a post a while back that suggested that the retaining flange for a dual row IMSB is actually different visually than one for a single row IMSB. If true, it should be easy to ID what you have by removing the clutch and taking a look.

I would simply go with the recommendation of LN engineering and have the IMS bearing replaced when you replace the clutch. And then go for the ceramic double bearing. The one remark I see coming back is "what happens if the bearing taken out is perfect". This is actually EXACTLY what you want. If it is perfect still that is the sign you are replacing it timely and not too late. Volkert

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I'll bite... Just because I randomly chose Rolex11 as a username does make any of the following true or false, or less likely or more likely to be the case... That I wear or own a rolex... ...if I do wear or own a Rolex that I have big bucks... ...if I do have big bucks that I don't budget or have spending limits on things I purchase ...if one of those things I purchase is a nearly 20 year old car, I can't do as I please with it ...if doing as I please with it offends, I necessarily care in the least... FYI car is at Vertex Auto getting a new clutch. And as PM, water pump, AOS, RMS, IMS (EPS roller bearing w/oil feed), expansion tank and a few other little items. $4,000.00 est. If my replacement 2004 engine has the larger non-serviceable IMSB, skipping the IMSB and doing all the others for $3,000.

EPS roller bearing w/oil feed?

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Correct, EPS cylindrical roller bearing. Oil is fed thru a hole that is punched on the oil pump side of the IMS from the oil pump thru a special slotted hex key. There There b3freak eat your creamed carrots like a good little boy...

No daddy no no no... not "oil in the hole" again and don't wanna play your "creamy carrot" game again. ((Phone rings))) Helllo? Yes, this is B,... is this DFCS? Oh good... Yes, he's at it again with the "creamy carrot" game. No no... he hasn't tried to sell more faked rolexs on eBay. But he just goes into this trance and pretends he's racing a Porsche (like he really owns one)... He really gets into it like the guy on that risky business movie. Goodness... He watches that movie over and over and over... and when he see the train sequence, he turns to me with a Stanley Kubrick stare, you know.. like off Full Metal Jacket?... And then starts humming, "I can feel it coming in the air tonight" the carrot game again.

Slow down Georgia Boy, take your meds, that's right all of them, those voices in your head will go away.

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That was funny!

Rather than starting a new thread, I'm just going to provide what my car went thru last week in this thread I started about dropping my oil sump. Just providing what I chose to have done and show some pictures and give some costs. Not looking to debate. Find it useful and interesting great, otherwise turn the page. Just after buttoning up the oil sump after cleaning it out and sealing it, I filled it up with JG DT40 and went for a drive to make sure all was well. During this drive I felt the clutch slipping. Take it to my shop and they verify the clutch is toast. I authorize them to replace the clutch, AOS, RMS, and IMSB and advise me of anything else they are concerned with. I've posted my receipt to show you guys what was done and what I was charged. The 2 following links are to EPS's website showing which IMSB fix I went with and also the EPS's RMS seal & housing. https://www.europeanpartssolution.co...g-upgrade-kit/ https://www.europeanpartssolution.com/rear-main-seal/ Pics include: ...RMS and IMS flange when they removed the tranny ...disk, flywheel and pressure plate ...my invoice ...the old IMSB cleaned w/ seals removed (now a paper weight for my desk). Removed IMSB was perfect. FYI, if you read earlier in this thread I mentioned that I was unsure if my 1999 C2 cab. had a single row or dual row. Most 1999's will have dual row, but my car had a replacement engine install by Porsche in 2004. Mystery solved, the replacement engine had the 1st gen. single row IMSB most likely to fail according to Porsche class action law suit. I'm very happy with the service the pricing and outcome. Happy to reply to useful questions or requests for more info, but I'm not going to debate the subjective aspects. Mostly posting for others to have a reference on price.