Another DIY C2 Suspension thread - need help

I need to update the suspension in my 1999 C2 with 75k miles. It rattles and bounces it's way down the road. I want a setup that I can go in the Los Angeles canyons, and also join track days at local tracks. I am having a hard time putting together all the parts I need as I am getting very overwhelmed with threads where there are 1000 different setups. From OEM (meyle kits), to part Meyle / part not etc etc. All I've managed to sort out is Feal 441+ single valve (though I don't know if I need road racing or the performance/balance version, or what the difference actually is) or Ohlins RT with Tarett mounts (Feal comes with mounts, so it's about a $1200 difference). I've read the GT3 style LCAs are good because it allows for more camber adjustment. I found Demon speed, which are $350 each. They are Cup style. https://demonspeed.com/product/lower...996-cup-style/ And then comes all the rest. Drop links, tie rods. And then all the FCP kits that everyone says to get all come with Control Arms, which I don't need if I'm getting GT version, so I'm so turned around. And then the suggestion is to monoball everything and I don't even know what that means. The rear sway bar has paint coming off and looks a bit corroded, so should probably change that as well. I can't envision all of this without taking all the parts off, but then I'll have the car on the quickjacks for a month. End of day, I think i can do the work myself, but trying to place the darn order is killing me.. Is there just a simple answer to this? I'm frozen in indecision. Any help much appreciated it.

I'll explain the monoballs. Every suspension bushing joint has an inner steel tube and an outer steel tube. In between there is rubber. When the suspension moves, the inner steel tube stays put because it's securely bolted to the frame. The outer steel tube rotates, the rubber joining the tubes flexes. This absorbs most of the small, annoying, harsh jolts and gives a good ride quality. But, because rubber is holding the suspension arms, the suspension arms can move - slightly - in directions that change the wheel alignment. The same feature that gives good ride quality allows enough movement under high loads to make the alignment wander around. A monoball, which is also called a spherical joint or a Heim joint, is a bearing that can move with enough freedom that the suspension arms do what they are supposed to and cannot move in undesirable ways. This stabilizes the alignment under high loads such as on track. Because the monoball is metal to metal - no rubber - it transmits those small harsh jolts directly into the frame, where a rubber bushing would absorb them. I don't like to take long trips in my track car which has monoballs everywhere. It's very harsh going over even tiny bumps. It's wonderful on smooth track pavement, never feels light or floaty even at 140+ mph.

Quotes source post: 19886350

Thanks, i also looked them up. I do worry that it might be too extreme for a semi track car. While I have a C2 cabriot now as a my weekend daily, the coupe will get weekday canyon runs and maybe driven to the track (which can be 2 hrs each way). Plus budget, and starting out, I'm trying to keep it reasonable ($350 a piece Cup CAs are hard to swallow for instance.) I could go to a local 911 indy who has track experience, but I know I can just put that labor into parts instead. If I could just figure out what I need....

When I changed all my parts out I went with stock everything except the coil-overs(Ohlin's) and the sway-bar links(elephant racing). I kept everything else stock because I knew I could run at X74 height and still have bit of camber. I'm currently at -1.5 camber which matches well with our backroads and the freeway time I have. The only reason you need adjustable LCA's or hats is if you need to be lower or need alot of camber, which track-rats eventually need. Good luck! This is the fun part of these cars, when every change made makes them feel so much better!

Quotes source post: 19886561

So why elephant sway bar links, over stock, or the Tarett? Plan is for good amount of track time, which is the only reason I'm looking at the two piece Control Arms for more camber --- but do I really need it as a beginner to tracking (but not a beginner to canyoning...)? And I find myself throwing around terms like "GT3 Lower control arms" "two-piece" etc, when I really just parroting what I've read on other threads.

I would always choose Ohlins RT coilovers over other off-the-shelf offerings. Their damper technology is really forking good. If you get coilovers, you may want to corner balance your car. If you do that, then I�d recommend adjustable drop links to eliminate sway bar preload. Regarding monoballs, you should take a look at this post: https://rennlist.com/forums/996-gt2-...l#post18355498 Through my searches on Rennlist, I�ve found multiple posts that also recommend adjustable rear toe links, solid rear LCA (caster) pucks, and monoball rear inner LCA bushings. These three items are recommended to eliminate rubber deflection in the rear during hard driving, resulting in stable and predictable handling at the limit. When you monoball the rear inner LCA bushing, you can either press a monoball into the stock 996 C2 LCA, or you can use the 2-piece GT3 LCA in conjunction with a separate, pre-monoballed inner bushing. You won�t need to use shims on the rear to adjust camber, because (I read) the stock camber adjuster gives you a wide range of adjustment. You�d primarily want to shim the rear LCAs to widen the rear track width. Installing 2-piece GT3 LCAs in the front, as you said, is important for adjusting camber because the stock design is limited in its adjustment range. Shimming the front LCAs will also widen your track width, so it may be prudent widen the rear to compensate. You might also want to consider GT3 front strut mounts, which can provide additional camber when mounted in its alternate position. These strut mounts are also monoballed. When you shim the front LCAs to adjust camber, you�re also changing the caster. Unfortunately, there isn�t a stock caster adjustment, so you�ll need to purchase some aftermarket parts which allow for it, either: adjustable thrust arms or adjustable caster pucks. Also, when you swap to adjustable rear toe links, you ought to purchase a toe-locking bolt kit to eliminate the stock eccentric bolt. It�s a very, very slippery slope� you might decide to monoball everything because you�re almost there, anyway. Oh, and you�ll probably want adjustable sway bars to tune the over/understeer balance to your liking.

Quotes source post: 19886599

They are local. I could go pick them up. I think Tarett's will work the same. Adjustability for corner balancing. That said, am I a good enough driver to know the difference between 5% and 0.5% out of balance? I don't know. Maybe start easy, get your coilovers, set your height and stiffness, get a beginner track alignment, whatever that is, and go have fun.(provided no other bushing or part is bad) Talk about your experience with people smarter than you and start making adjustments. Average the cost over a much longer time.

I have Feal coilovers and they’re a great setup. But �hlins are superior, and costly. I also have the Demonspeed Cup car outer control arms on the front. They are very reasonably priced. My inner control arms are Tarret. I have a set of used monoball rear upper and lower control arms, but haven’t installed them due to potential harshness. I may install them someday.

You're right, you have an incredible wealth of choices when it comes to 996 suspension. That's a good thing! It sounds as though you really need to get your focus on what result you want. The track rats on this forum are very knowledgeable and experienced, but their objectives may not be the same as yours. The same is true for folks like me, who focus more on road use; I'm going to tell you how much I love what I did, but it may not be relevant to your objectives. With those parameters in mind, my advice will try to be general in nature. Suspension modifications involve compromise. Lowering the suspension reduces wheel travel and can make road use less pleasant, but if you live in a land of nearly perfect roads maybe you don't care. (I don't, so I do.) Track-focused stuff like monoball joints can add NVH. How much they add, and how much you can or want to live with, is totally subjective. And so on. On the other hand, suspension refreshment is all win-win-win. In your shoes my focus would be on refreshing everything that needs it, which means every suspension arm and everything related to shocks and their mounts. Two-piece LCAs can be retrofitted at any time; that may be a place to save money now and keep in mind for the future. Spend your budget instead on good shocks/coilovers, replace all the rest of the rubber bits, and go drive the car. Revisit things once the budget recovers.

Best advice I can give is to not buy anything until you understand the suspension components, what they do and trade-offs (pluses and minus), what's available from the best vendors, and then translate your newly aquired knowledge towards what you want/need to accomplish your goal. There are three different set-ups. (1) street, (2) street & track, and (3) track only. From what you say, you want street & track which means you are doing double duty so a "race car" suspension that's stiff, noisy and extremely expensive doesn't make sense. Same can be said for a non-adjustable street suspension which you will outgrow pretty quickly if you are going to track it every so often. Fwiw, a great set of adjustable coilovers (ohlins, bilstein, kw, mcs, jrz, etc) with Tarret camber plates for more negative camber, tarret 5 way adjustable GT3 sway bars and Tarret drop links should get you started. Unless you are looking for a boat load more negative camber, which you don't want on the street, stick with non-adjustable arms. You can always upgrade the arms if/when you feel you need a boatload more negative camber and more adjustment. Importantly, it starts with the best adjustable coilovers you can afford that match your objectives. Do not cheap out on coilovers. It will cost you alot more money when you replace them because you quickly out grow them. Lastly, take your time to understand what you want. This crap is expensive. Do it right the first time. EDIT/ADD: fwiw, you do not need to necessarily spend the money on camber plates at first since if you lower the car to GT3 specs you will develop natural negative camber. Tarret camber plates will get you more camber if you want it and can be added later as you need more camber adjustment. But great coilovers, plus tarret 5 way GT3 sway bars and adjustable drop links are a good minimal starting point.

I've mentioned this in another post and Glen kinda hit the nail on the head, you really need to know what you're looking to do because the parts + set ups seem infinite. I did this same thing last year with a Cup Sport thought process, something that can do both track days and some local driving. My GF doesn't really like to sit in the car so my aim was really for me and me alone. This is what I have on my car that took about 3 years to amass via sales at various resellers(Pelican, FCP, DemonSpeed and ECS) and the help of the Marketplace: 997.1 Forged GT3 LCAs(front) Demon Speed GT3 Outers Meyle dog bones x4 Meyle forks Meyle LCAs(Rear) Meyle tie rod kit(inner/outer) Tarett end links(F/R) Tarett LCA shims Tarett Adjustable Sways(F/R) Sway bar bushings(F/R) Used Ohlins R&T Cargraphic Airlift Kit(front) The car rides so much better than the tired factory M030 suspension that the car came with. With that said, pretty much did exactly what I set out to do. She was perfect at the track! The sticker price on all those parts ended up being a lot BUT I bought most everything during Black Friday deals and etc. Hope this helps.

Thanks to all the post replies above. It's super helpful to hold back on trying to buy everything at once. I think I will go with the advice to replace all the parts with the basics, but focus on spending more on the coilovers. And then can upgrade parts as needed. So that would leave me with: Coilovers Ohlins R/T - Either from Tarett as package with their camber plate ($3,490) or from some online place ($3,250) and try and reuse mounting plates. But $250 seems worth it for Terett version with camber plates, right? (Unless I'm not understanding their pricing) Alt is to go Feal, which I think is $2,139 - for Swift spring, "road racing" version, and includes their top mounts. That brings is down to a $1,350 difference. Which is pretty hefty. Rear swaybar - I need a rear sway bar. Mine has the paint chipping off and is rusting under. Tareet - $395 Eibach - $295 OEM- seems like $250-$350 Front Sway - visually it seems okay, but is it okay to have miss-matched? Droplinks - Will I be okay with TRW for track? I have them on my cab with B4 suspension. Will they work if I get an after-market sway from Tarett or Eibach? TRW F/R - $140 Tarett F/R - $525 Control arms and related things with bushings. Going to look at adjustable 2-piece later. Rear - Meyle - $1049 ( FCP link ) Front - Meyle - $720 (depending on which steering rack I have...?) ( FCP Link ) So that brings the total to Ohlins + TRW drops = $5,700 Ohlins + Tarett drops = $6,050 Feal + TRW drops = $4,350 Feal + Tarett drops = $4,725 And wow it adds up quick... and not including the "oops I need that too". What am I over looking? Any opinions on the above?

Quotes source post: 19891536

a stiffer rear sway bar will typically induce more understeer, which the 996 has plenty in stock form. I would get adjustable drop links if you ever plan to lower your car

The 996 comes from the factory with susbstantial understeer. If you want to reduce understeer you soften the front and stiffen the rear. To do that you can either... 1. Stiffen up your rear coilovers amd soften the front. or 2. tighten up the rear sway bars and loosen the front or 3. Do both #1 & #2. Great adjustable coilovers and sway bars are critical to managing understeer/oversteer and facilitating rotation. Also helps you to dial in tire/wheel sizes.

I think it's the other way round.... stiffer rear transmits more force to the front which increases front grip and increases oversteer. https://5xracing.com/p-24306-sway-bar-tuning.html An adjustable rear sway is a great idea. I have an Eibach with 3 holes, it is identical to the H&R.

I think you’re correct. It’s been decades since my racing days. 26 years to be exact.

Yeah, it all runs together after awhile. If someone is going to spend the money on sway bars, I would spend it on the 5 hole Tarret GT3 bars. Front and rear.

Quotes source post: 19891568

This! I don't think you'll notice the difference between the Ohlins vs Feals(I sure as hell didn't) and plenty of guys run the Feals with great success. I'd def consider the Tarett GT sways and their droplinks.

Quotes source post: 19891629

$675 each bar is def not in my budget. I think a change of plan, even though the rear sway is looking rough, I think I'll stick with the sways I have and get to know the car with coilovers mounted and go from there. Reading the link theprf posted, I think I need to understand the mechanics a bit more and actually buy things that suit in driving style.

Quotes source post: 19891882

Nothing wrong with taking it step by step. If you are patient, you may be able to find plenty of the parts that are used but in great condition for half the price. The only thing you need to be in a hurry to do is bullet proof the engine.

What about going even a step farther, and replacing all the upper arms and links, but re-using the lowers in case I do decide to update to 2-way lowers? Am I being too cheap now?

Quotes source post: 19892287

Regarding the arms, i would find a Porsche indy that understands suspension components and have them go thru every arm and see what needs to be replaced now and what can wait to be replaced later. I would stick with non adjustable oem stuff like Meyle and Trw. Unless you are building a full time dedicated race car, you don't need to spend the money on adjustable arms. You can get enough camber with lowering the car to GT3 specs and camber plates with a good set of coilovers. This will allow you to still "street" the car. I am not saying to "not" get adjustable arms, I am suggesting that you may want to wait a few years to see what your objectives for the car end up being and put the money into other parts. But what I am saying is that if you want a "trackable" street car, a great set of adjustable coilovers (ohlins, pss10s, etc), coupled with tarret mounts, tarret gt3 5 hole sway bars, and drop links with oem arms will get you to the settings you need to do dual duty with you car on the track and street. If you want a race car, then we are talking 3 way JRZs and adjustable everything. Very big bucks.

One thing to keep in mind is if you replace 1 part at a time, that depending upon what you're replacing, you'll need to realigned the car. This can get expensive quickly with $200 alignments. Coilover installation requires alignment. Lowering/raising coilovers requires alignment. Swapping control arms requires checking and possible alignment (even with non-adjustable factory-style control arms---they vary slightly from the factory) Going from non-adjustable control arms to 2 piece GT3 control arms DEFINITELY requires realignment. Swaybar swap does not require realignment in my experience.

Quotes source post: 19892517

That is a good point. I think I can get away with beginning on track just on coilovers with all rest of parts standard and in future think about upgrading. If I could close my garage with the car on the lift (it sticks out bc the way the Quickjacks raise), I would just pull everything off and feel how loose the rubber bits are. But I think it's worth just biting the bullet and buying the full replacement control arm packages and basic droplinks. So final "let's just get started" package will be: Coilovers Save $$$ with Feal, which I think is $2,139 - for Swift spring, "road racing" version, and includes their top mounts. Rear swaybar - it looks rough, but will leave as is for now $0 Front Sway - leave as is $0 Droplinks: TRW to start, as I may have to replace sway eventually and can do Tarett or other links at that point $140 Control arms and related things with bushings. Proactively replace them all Rear - Meyle - $1049 ( FCP link ) Front - Meyle - $720 (depending on which steering rack I have...?) ( FCP Link ) Total = $4,050 Still not a small purchase!

Good choice. Might want to check how lose the 'inner tie rods' are before the pia to change them out, as they don't usually go bad.

Yep, that's pretty much how we all start. Coilover first, then sway bars, drop links and camber plates next. Then every day you wake up and rationalize with yourself about why you need a set of 3 way adjustable JRZs and fully adjustable suspension bits so you can shave off 1 more second a lap...

Quotes source post: 19892902

That is how it started for me... then ended up rationalizing the Cargraphic AirLift kit.

Quotes source post: 19893418

Amen brother!

Quotes source post: 19892902

Don't the Tarett R/T Ohlins and the Feal's both come with camber plates? Or am I just not understanding the lingo?

Quotes source post: 19892882

Any helpful hint on how to do that?

Quotes source post: 19893722

Joel and Tex would have to answer the question on the Ohlins and Feals since they have them.

Quotes source post: 19893739

I bought mine used and the Taretts were included but I vaguely remember Ohlins coming with Elephant mounts for a short time after there was a recall on the Ohlins strut mount. I'm not 100% sure of the current set up but that's an easy phone call to find out.

Quotes source post: 19893722

Feals do.

Quotes source post: 19893773

The AWD Ohlins include Elephant top mounts because the struts are incompatible with the stock top mounts, which resulted in some struts with bent shafts.

Quotes source post: 19893725

Jack up the front end & remove the tires. Grab the tie rod and move in-out. If the inner joint clicks or taps or makes noise or feels notchy it's bad. The inners are a pain to change and usually last the life of the steering rack.

Looks like I was mislead on Taretts website with the pretty picture of the camber plate installed on their Road and Track version ( https://tarett.com/products/ohlins-r...-ohlins-rt-kit ). However, the "Dedicated" kit comes with "the addition of stiffer track oriented spring rates, increased damper valving, and Tarett Engineering competition camber plates." I assume the spring rates and damper valving are from Ohlins and Tarett just adds the plates. Though, I'm not really sure why they sell the Road and Track version as a "kit" when it seems it's just the coil over, which you can buy cheaper elsewhere (like Tire Rack).

@Ben8jam the photo in that link is definitely not a Road & Track coilover as it has an external reservoir as well as damper adjustment ***** on the side of the shock, neither of which are present on the regular R&T version. I agree it's kind of misleading. I think the top hat might be included in GT3 and C4S version and certainly can be added to the C2 version as an option. When I installed mine, I went with stock / OEM top mounts to minimize NVH, since the springs are on the stiffer side. Luckily the shock technology is so good that the ride is firm but not uncomfortable when the dampers are dialed down.

Quotes source post: 19894263

Okay did that. I yanked on this piece (pictured below) and there is no movement, not even in the rubber gasket connected to the wheel hub. If I try with the wheel on, I get more leverage and can shift the wheel left and right a very small amount when holding at 3 and 9 o�clock. However, this seems like the entire rack is moving, not the tie rod. It�s just a small amount of play. Same on both sides. However, if I give it a proper jiggle, which shifts the whole car on the quickjacks, there is a funny sounding muffled nail in a can sound (best I can describe it) coming from more center of the car. I think this is one of the odd rattles I hear when driving at low speeds. Though I can�t pinpoint it. The only other sound I can get is to shake the frontward facing control arm (caster?). That ball joint, where it is farthest foreward, rattles. But everything else sounds solid. EXCEPT when i roll downhill on a local rough street it sounds like the front end is going to fall off

Wow well as luck had it, I stumbled across this post. This is the nail in can (guess marble in can is a better description) to what I'm hear when I shake the front end. Mine is not as loud as this, but that sounds almost identical. So that's one less suspension part to worry about https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...se-solved.html Also, read that I should be jacking the wheel carrier up if I want to truly test the play in the suspension joints/*****, as when the wheel is dropped, it's bracing all the joints. So will try that too....

Your check of the inner tie rods is correct and showed they are in good condition. No need to mess with them. From your description the outer tie rod ends are fine too. Both of those last essentially forever as long as the dust boots are intact. You can focus on the lower control arms and the tuning fork arms. I would suggest solid camber pucks in whatever LCA you end up with because they add zero NVH and do a much better job at preserving caster settings.