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YOUR RESEARCHLooks like I need a new Engine
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Replace almost all 996 engines
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One, it says cylinders replaced as needed and two it does not say the pistons are replaced, Almost all 996 engines with 78K miles will have cylinders that are out of spec for taper and ovality, so just fitting new rigs is a waste of time.
Leading evidence: 'Replace almost all 996 engines' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'difficult endeavor.to see “gold” dust' (1 discussions; 0 report identifying it and 1 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Check their website' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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And there is no guarantee that the swapped engine doesn't have issues.
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I�ve found a few options with tested compression and 30 day warranties.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
The best I've been able to find in terms of a long block is an engine with 44k miles out in CA that comes with a 30 day warranty and supposedly tested compression at 200.
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Getting a factory short block which will end up most likely costing you the same all in as swapping in an unknown used engine.
Clean interior and exterior parts are usually sought
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Suggestion
If your car is very clean, interior and exterior parts are usually sought after (seats, door panels, instrument cluster, etc.) as well as many engine-peripheral items (starter, alternator, AC parts, etc.)
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One, it says cylinders replaced as needed and two it does not say the pistons are replaced, Almost all 996 engines with 78K miles will have cylinders that are out of spec for taper and ovality, so just fitting new rigs is a waste of time.
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difficult endeavor.to see “gold” dust
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Verifying the condition of the components is the hard part.Dropping the sump on a used engine before you buy is probably a difficult endeavor.To see “gold” dust from main and rod bearings ,worn bits from chain rails,green o ring pieces from variocam solenoids …..
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Well folks, took my 996 down to my indy last week cause it wasn't turning over. They opened Cylinder #4 to discover it was full of coolant. Tried filling the coolant reservoir and after a few minutes, without pressurization, the coolant is leaking into the cylinder. So it looks like I have a cracked cylinder wall.
In any case, besides being totally gutted over this car which I love, I need to look at options for a possible used engine replacement. Any recommendations for dismantlers/shops to look at would be greatly appreciated it.
Mine's the 996.1 3.4L
Thanks!
If it HAD to happen, too bad it didn't happen later in the year. I'm likely pulling my low mileage, and younger, 3.4 out to do an LS swap sometime later this year. Sorry to hear!
Wow, that�s unlucky. I remember you did a PPI, but that was back in 2023 I think. And guessing the bores didn�t get scoped during that PPI either, not that it would have found anything for a cracked cylinder or head. Bore scopes are generally recommended here, but not often carried out due to sellers not wanting to do this, and buyers not wanting to pay for it.
Well, a used engine is not a bad idea if the cost if 1/2 than a rebuild. If the used engine approaches a full rebuild, I�d go for a rebuild.
Hey, yep that's right. Weird thing is it had been running flawlessly until a recent car wash I did. Thought I had gotten water in the cylinder. Turns out it was much worse.
Why not just buy a used one off BAT and take the engine out and sell the rest of the car as parts? $25k will get you a pretty nice 996. And if you are lucky/patient, you can find deals for even less.
If my M96 ever does give up, It will be a toss up between a hartech or LN build or swapping the audi 2.7T in. I have a soft spot for that motor and the fact that it already works so well with the electrics in the car makes it oh so tempting.
Sorry to hear about your engine. If you love your car, want to get it right the first time, and want the peace of mind that comes with a 2-year warranty on a Hartech 3.7L hardened endurance racing engine, give me a call [phone removed]).
We�re receiving another 996.1 on Monday, with transport scheduled for the car, the original engine, and the used replacement engine that didn�t even make it 1,000 miles. This is the second one this month. Take it with a grain of salt�I don�t see the used engine swaps that go well. But I empathize with those who end up having to pay for an engine twice just to get their car back on the road, regardless of the circumstances.
I bought mine with a junkyard engine freshly installed. I ended up getting a short block from the dealer. It doesn't have all the upgrades that LN or Hartech have, but then I didn't have to pay for them either.
It would be great to understand from first principles whether the comment above from
@SlakkerRacingDev
resonates with folks. Specifically about how common replacement engine fail. It seems to me that this is probably based on the condition and components of the replacement engine. But I�d love to hear from more opinions. Thanks.
Verifying the condition of the components is the hard part.Dropping the sump on a used engine before you buy is probably a difficult endeavor.To see “gold” dust from main and rod bearings ,worn bits from chain rails,green o ring pieces from variocam solenoids ….. and so on. In my opinion buying a used engine is a roll of the dice.
Sorry for your loss.
Sorry to hear about your situation.
Regarding the Einmalig rebuilt engine, I see two things that concern me. One, it says cylinders replaced as needed and two it does not say the pistons are replaced, Almost all 996 engines with 78K miles will have cylinders that are out of spec for taper and ovality, so just fitting new rigs is a waste of time. They will not seal. the sad fact is that is is very expensive to rebuild a 9986 engine correctly and too many people try to do it on the cheap and end up very disappointed. You have to decide if your like the car enough to do a proper rebuild. If you don�t, take the loss now rather than investing a lot of money and ending up at the same place you are now.
Buying used engines... I have had really bad luck with those, Porsche and non-Porsches. One 996 used engine came complete with Cyl 6 holding zero compression. Needless to say, that one went back. Buy from people you know, and trust, and a warranty. Otherwise, don't.
As for the rebuilt engine for $11.5K ... I don't know what this means: "
rings and Piston liners as needed." An LNE case is $6,000 with pistons and rings. Other parts can easily add $5K. I don't see how they can do a good job on a rebuild, sell it for $11.5K AND make money. I frankly rather not find out.
It seems I remember you recently asking questions about the AOS system. ? Did you have an AOS failure ? That could explain your cracked cylinder if you experienced a partial hydrolock event..
Sorry for your failure ...
I would pass on the Einmalig engine.......I would rather have an unmolested OEM engine with less than 50k miles than this "rebuilt" engine....They are not properly addressing the cylinders ...NO ONE can properly address the OEM Lokasil cylinders or the OEM Ferrostan piston plating ......They either need to remain untouched or completely revised with a different Tribology ...
People who upgrade the Tribology of the Cylinders in the US are LN Engineering, Slakker, Vision, and is the prudent way "rebuild" any m96/7 engine that has near 100K miles.
Used engines with near 100k miles that are in relative good condition will still need new vario-cam pads, IMSB, AOS, Chain Sliders, 4th-5th timing chains, ect...
A new OEM short block/bottom end doesn't have upgraded Tribology but can last a good while ...but you will still need quite a bit of "while you are in theres" ..
What is your budget for "getting back on the road" ?
Seems like a very good option. You can probably net $15K from selling the parts form your existing car, if you are a DYIer, by removing, cleaning, and shipping the parts yourself. The tranny can fetch $3-4K. If your car is very clean, interior and exterior parts are usually sought after (seats, door panels, instrument cluster, etc.) as well as many engine-peripheral items (starter, alternator, AC parts, etc.)
Or a turbo K24 from Tuned by Nick. 500 hp and the engines are cheap.
K996 EP4 - It Runs! - Exhaust - Coolant - Fuel - Power Steering
Sucks about the engine.
Thanks man, I had a similar thought about the AOS. Ironically, the car was set to go to the shop the next day for IMS/AOS replacement when this all happened.
Thanks for the advice on the Einmalig engine. Seems like a lot of you guys are skeptical.
The best I've been able to find in terms of a long block is an engine with 44k miles out in CA that comes with a 30 day warranty and supposedly tested compression at 200. Spoke to the guy and he can get it to me for 10k. Which is obviously still a lot considering my tech will need to still do the IMS, AOS on it.
The other option is getting a Short Block from Porsche and having my shop move everything over but that sounds like it will get me into some crazy $$.
I'd love to stay under 15k total for the work as the rest of the car is in really great shape. I also don't know the hassle it would take to try and sell it and the price I might expect.
Would love any and all thoughts. I'm trying to take my time with next steps.
Sorry about your engine.
No way would i consider swaping in a 20-25 year old engine for a $10k cost plus another $10k in labor and inevitable refresh parts. That's $20-25k. And there is no guarantee that the swapped engine doesn't have issues.
You are better off either...
1. Getting a factory short block which will end up most likely costing you the same all in as swapping in an unknown used engine. At least you know the proper procedures and preventative maintenence needed to keep the factory short block running in fine shape for the next 3 decades.
2. Or getting your engine rebuilt with nikosil bores and better internals for a little more money. Who know, maybe you want some enhanced power as well?!
JMO
I have had excellent success with used engines - not M96's of course, other kinds of used engines. Being able to do the work myself means that I am not paying labor for engine swaps that don't work, although I have only had one of those on a 2.8 24V VR6.
I have to point out that there is no actual diagnosis if the engine has a cracked cylinder or a cracked head. I recall that cracked heads on 3.4's are fairly common and are a much easier fix.
Thanks
@theprf
- the assumption of cracked cylinder wall came from the tech once they had flushed the coolant out of the cylinder. Refilled the reservoir, gave it a few minutes, and without pressurizing noticed it dripping back into the cylinder.
Not that I have a horse in the game but Hartech sure seems to have a lot less snake oil on their parts than some other builders. Bummer to hear about your engine dying, hope you're back on the road soon!
Fun Fact about Snake OIl.....;it was a real medicine
It was used in Ancient Chinese Medicine by boiling Chinese Water Snakes ( high in Omega-3 ) and use for joint inflammation and brought to the West by the Chinese working on the Railroads...
A Cowboy named Clark Stanley learned of the Medicine but used Rattlesnakes instead of Chinese Water Snakes..in 1893 ...He used Rattlesnake OIl , Beef fat , Turpentine, and Red Pepper in his Clark Stanleys Snake OIl Liniment......but sales were so high he could not get enough Rattlesnakes so he started using Mineral Oil instead of Snake OIl .In !917 a Fed investigation found there was no Snake Oil in the Tonic, and he was fined $20 .....
Stanley was the first "Snake Oil Salesman," ......subsequent Snake OIl Tonics were made using Cocaine, Opium, and Ayahuasca !!! ....lol..( Coca Cola was one Snake Oil that survived with the Cocaine removed from the recipe ) ..
The 3.4 short block is about $9800 +core charge now....I remember when you could get a full long block that even had oil in it ready to go for $6800 and no core charge.....butt those days are long gone...
That's my point. If this is a cracked head it's a much less expensive repair than if it's a cracked block. Just seeing water in the cylinder does not narrow down the source.
Sorry this happened to you. Hope you can soon figure on the right path for yourself.
Maybe my post, with some others chiming in on what I say can help you decide on a course of action.
Well, with what you've described above, sounds more like a D-Chunk. Stemming from a coolant hydro lock, or a car wash hydro lock. Most cracked heads have hairline cracks that only leak enough to actually 'see' in the cylinders under pressure. Or not even in the cylinder, but in the coolant. For you to see coolant in the cylinder after just pouring in coolant in tank means a massive leak,,, like part of the cylinder is broken off 'D Chunk'...
Curious, did you change anything in the airbox like some do..?
jmho
The 3.4 head cracks are on the "top" side of the head away from the combustion chamber. They don't leak into the cylinder/combustion chamber, the cracks are on top between the oil passages and coolant passages under the lifter cradle...and cause intermix...between coolant and oil...
Also the m96 has MLS headgaskets that never fail so coolant in the cylinders means a cracked cylinder/D-chunk...
The Renn2.7 swap is my "If the M96 ever takes a dump..." list. I have so much love and attention (and money) in my 996 that replacing it would be unappealing, I'd be reluctant to put a used/standard M96 in, and a built M96 seems to be about $10k more than the Renn2.7.
Hopefully I'll never face that decision.
Just know that you might not get a good engine and you might end up having to rebuild it, so don't overpay. We bought a good running engine from them and tore it down during our Hands on rebuild class and it had undiagnosed bore scoring at BDC.
Thanks
@allcool
&
@Porschetech3
that's what my tech said as well regarding it most likely being the cylinder rather than the head.
I spent a good deal of time with Brandon from Slakker yesterday talking about doing a Hartech rebuild and I think I'm leaning in that direction. I figure the unknowns of a used engine are too risky and if I'm going to keep this car for a while, I'd rather know that I'm getting something solid.
Do you agree with the current line of D-Chunk failure analysis.
Hydro lock is what usually cause D-Chunk/cyl cracking, its the current line of thinking so say the experts...?
Could be from a faulty aos or internal coolant leak hydro lock or a car wash water down intake hydro lock...?
jmho
I don't think the cracks that form in M96 are from car washes or internal coolant leaks... The air cleaner drains very well and the MLS headgaskets never blow ...
If the AOS fails or is just inadequate to handle the blow-by of your engine the oil will pool in the intake like is shown below in the picture. ( white fluid) . The way the intake is shaped there is a shelf/pocket where oil can pool if it gets past the AOS System...It only takes 60cc of oil in one cylinder to hydrolock and there can be several ounces polled in the intake and when you go uphill or into a corner the oil will spill out into cyl #4 #6 #1 or #3 ....never goes into #2 or #5..
If you see cracks/D-chunk in mulitple cylinders at one time it can only be from oil Hydrolock.....And many many times it not diagnosed or expected to be an AOS failure because oil is normal to be found in the engine when you any catastrocic failure...especially if it resulted in a bent or broken rod that stabs through the case..
There is a theory that because the original Lokasil cylinders tend to go oval over time that if they oval far enough that it will stress the cylinder too much and crack.....and I would think that to be the case if it were Cyl #2 or #5........But when I see a crack on a corner cylinder oil hydrolock is the prime suspect..
This is the best summary. Also going 3.7 sounds underwhelming but the torque and response of a displacement build is more than the sum of it's parts. You'll really love the car with what seems a fractional displacement change.
This is a source reference. Confirm exact model applicability in the original material.
