The quest for a nice $20k 996 C2 cab manual

Hi from a forum noob! So after 10 years with my '06 350z I am taking the plunge into a new-to-me 996. Have done a lot of research (thanks forums!) and have settled on a 2002-04 manual C2 cab (I live in SoCal). Sat in a lot of beaters, but have found 2 nice examples in my price range but each has a few issues. Was hoping to seek some advice on which (if any) would be the better choice. It seems that my price range doesn't have any perfect examples! Car #1: 2003 C2 cab manual, 86k miles -Seal grey with black interior, -Exterior is in good shape except for a few tiny door dings. Paint is good. Headlights a bit cloudy. Easy to restore, or have to be replaced? -Roof has some wrinkling/cracking and the fabric on the passenger side doesn't fit into the plastic groove correctly, leaving a small gap. Might need a whole new roof, I'm not sure. Mechanicals fine. Comes with hard top, which is in great shape. -Interior 8/10 but current owner (3rd owner and has had it 2 years) is far from meticulous, needs some TLC. Probably would clean up fine. -Passenger power seat goes up and down but not backwards/forwards - needs new motor, maybe? Not sure. -Clutch OK, engine good, brakes had to push a little hard to get the car to slow down, but no squeaking. Not sure what that means. -No service records prior to the last 2 years, he bought it from a dealer. Well maintained since then. -Carfax showed an accident 10 years ago but seems to have been fixed well, all panels line up and no frame damage or other apparent issues. Clean title. -Decent replacement head unit and good speakers. Price: $17k and might come down a bit but not a ton. Car #2: 2003 C2 cab manual, 74k miles -Arctic silver with black interior -Exterior is 10/10, paint is great. -Roof is in great condition but the roof mechanicals have a problem- roof only partially opens and closes on its own and needs some manual help along the way. He thinks the lines just need to be bled, I'm not so sure (don't know if you guys might know). No hard top. -Interior 9/10 except some pixels out on the climate control display, making it difficult to read. -Drivers side door window doesn't go all the way up very easily and makes a knocking type sound. -New (very firm! is that normal?) clutch. New water pump. Good brakes. Good engine. -****ty replacement head unit and ****ty (probably stock) speakers. -Wheels seem to be Porsche 19" wheels (maybe from another model?) but for some reason have wheel spacers pushing them out so the tires are almost outside the fenders. Not sure whether this was because the wheels are too wide to fit under the fenders without rubbing, or if the previous owner just liked that look. Anyone seen that? -No accidents, clean title, has some but not all service records. Car has only had 1000 miles put on it in the last 3 years. -Asking $19,900 but is willing to fix the roof mechanicals and window (or give me a credit off the price to fix them myself) Any advice? Are these issues deal-breakers on either car? Sorry for the novel. I've become a little 996-obsessed so want to make sure I include all the info...

Forgot to mention- IMS not done on either car, but I'm a gambler so willing to take my chances and would not plan to fix it. Seems fairly uncommon to happen this far out with this many miles, based on what I've read, but please correct me if I'm wrong. No apparent RMS issues and no oil or any other kind of leaks on either car.

Could the accident be the issue with the top? I'd shy away from that one.

FWIW, I would favor #1 by a small margin. I'm troubled about #2...as the owner spent the $$ for a new clutch and didn't replace the IMSB...very odd. Sounds like he may have skimped on mntce. Also, the 19" wheels with spacers seems a bit too much "Boy Racer" for my blood. Plus the asking price is at the high end of the current price range...why! As I said...my 2cents. relinuca

Tough choice. Personally I'd go for gray over silver, just on the color and price. Are you planning to have a PPI? How many owners have each one had? The headlights can be restored. The top sounds like it may need a replacement, but it's under budget. you may also want to consider to continue looking or expand your search area. It took me a good couple months to find a nice one and it was out of state. Good luck and welcome!

I'd be leaning towards the first car for $17k, but would probably pass on both. Instead I'd be on the lookout for a MK1 (98, 99 or early 2000 build date) with same miles. You might even save yourself a few K and end up with a car with dual row IMSB and no more or less of a project.

Is #2 located in Playa Del Rey? If so I looked at that one for a fellow Rennlister that was out of state. Car looked pretty good other than a little overspray on the front bumper. The seller (guy that was selling the car for his friend) did not mention the top issue to me. Top was down when I saw it. I pulled the Carfax the other day and it shows 2 minor accidents. If it is the same car I think you could get it for quite a bit less than $19,900. The car has been on CL for at least 3 months and I could sense the seller was getting tired of the tire kickers. I think you could offer $17k and have a decent shot at grabbing it.

http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/ctd/5938259126.html pretty low milage, includes hardtop needs motor mounts

Welcome, I don't have a preference for either of the candidates. But - this is typical of what you are going to find on the market for a 14-15YO German built car. Top issues are very common, and very costly to put right. Think about it, if it was just an easy bleed of the system, why isn't it done before selling? hmmmmm. My guess is it'll be far more complex to resolve. I just did a PPI in Texas on a 99 red/tan cab and it was in tip-top condition, with only a few rock chips. It sold for $18,600. You can find cars that are not deferred maintenance, just be patient and when you find it, grab it. Both of these cars sound like deferred maint vehicles. Once something breaks, the owner figures 'oh well, I don't need that to get around'. What else are they not taking care of? Keep shopping. Look in the 'Today CL finds' thread. Often some real deals pop up there, but may not be in your area. Shop for cars asking $22-25k, and see if you can get them to move, or buy one of the rough one's and plan to spend $5k putting in good shape.

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto/5934079154.html Targa, not a cab. But - sounds like a deal. If the PPI checks out.

I personally would pass on the two you are considering. I pulled a search on Autotrader using my zip (cab, max $20K, under 100K miles): http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...&numRecords=25

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+1 for this one. I called on it last week. Guy said he had a buyer (full asking price) set to buy the car today. He emailed me last night saying the buyer had cancelled. Seller is getting a PPI done tomorrow so that would save you a few hundred $$ and should inspire confidence that the seller is preemptively doing it. I just agreed to buy another car the other day. Otherwise I'd be taking a road trip to SF!

Thanks for the replies! This is really helpful. I would get a PPI on whichever one I choose, but I don't want to do it *****-nilly since that can add up, so trying to kick the tires as much as I can beforehand. Good to know about the roof issues. Didn't realize that could be so expensive. I hadn't thought of the Targa as much since I've never ridden in one and not sure how much of an "open-air experience" it gives you. That car looks sweet though and I may have a look. He may not be willing to deal at all though given he just had a full-price offer. I could swing $22k if I had to, I suppose. Yes #2 was the one in Playa del Rey. I agree, he seemed pretty ready to part with it, could probably get a deal. Wow small world! Thanks for all the insights. Th

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That's excellent if he was willing to do the PPI himself. As soon as I saw that car on CL, I knew it was a gem--even though i'm not fond of targas.

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Agreed. Seller offered to send me the results of the PPI tomorrow (just in case the one I have an agreement on doesn't pass the PPI). I can PM it to you, assuming the seller doesn't mind.

I don't love the Targa, now that I look at it more... I think the lines are not as nice. Will keep up the search.

Thanks to kromdom for the autotrader search... I had missed one that his search pulled up. http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...modelCode1=911 Looks solid! Just left a message with the owner to go have a look.

I remember seeing that one on CL. Seller said it had 74K miles on the new motor but something like 120K miles on the chassis. Surprised that isn't mentioned in the Autotrader ad.....

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you are welcome....us SoCal folks are long overdue for a GTG.

Yeah that's a major oversight! If true, would that make you not consider it?

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Definitely. Also I just checked and the CL ad has been pulled. Interested in what the seller has to say. FYI, Carfax shows the car had 109,526 miles on it in Jan 2014. So it has 74k now??? Sounds shady...

Super shady! Will see what he says, but very suspect. Thanks for that. The quest continues.

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I'd be more interested to take a peek at it out of curiosity more than anything else. I'd like to see how comprehensive it is. So yeah, if the owner doesn't mind an you don't mind. I'd love to look at it. I would pass. Always other things hidden...

Here ya go http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac...943814933.html

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that's pretty sweet if it checks out,.....desirable color, sick low mileage

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^^^!!! /thread

One more. PCA sticker on the windshield is a plus. Can you tell it's a slow day at work for me....? http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/cto/5899838423.html

I'd be all in on that green one. That's a good looking car, even if I'm not the biggest fan of savannah beige interiors. Full leather is a nice option to have, too. Only flag thrown is that the IMS was replaced rather recently, I'd honestly prefer a car with the stock IMS still.

Thanks for these! Bash Hat I hope you keep having slow days! lol Not a fan of green or yellow on these cars. Black, grey, silver, blue, white; all with black top look the best to me. Also not a big fan of the grey interior. Damn I'm getting hard to please. Sorry. I am looking for 02-04 because they got a little power bump compared to the earlier cars, and a glass rear window for the convertible. That plastic window doesn't seem to hold up well. Very interested VivG in why you would prefer the stock IMS? I just got off the phone with a local Porsche mechanic (owns an indy shop, 5 star yelp reviews, has worked on Porsches for 35 years) and he basically told me that IMS is a time bomb and any 996 should have it done regardless of miles/years/upkeep. He seems pretty perfectionist but his vehemence surprised me, based on what I've read in the forums. He basically said that all bearings get some amount of condensation, and the condensation will eventually dissolve/break down the grease in the sealed bearing, rendering it prone to failure. But damn, a $2k fix in a $17k car is pretty rich.

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"cheap" when compared to the price/cost of a new engine

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From a investment perspective, later on the non-common colors are going to be a premium. Black/gray/silver are everywhere. I went to a breakfast a few weeks back and there were literally 12 silver and 7 black cars lined up in a row. I was embarrassed for all of them.

True, much less cost than an engine! I was trying to be all mathematical about it- if there is only a 5% chance of bearing failure, and that made the car a total loss (-$20k), then that fix should be worth 5% of 20k = $1k. But it seems that no one is really sure the actual number, and having my nice new 996 turned into an expensive piece of furniture would really suck. Yea blue and grey would be my favorites. So many silvers out there and black sucks to keep clean. Investment potential < my happiness. I'm sending car #1 for a PPI this week. Fingers crossed!

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Nice find, what a gem!

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I'm in 928 withdrawal, Doc. Tell Roger and Andy that I said hi.

So, I had a PPI done on car #1 (the grey one in my original post). I had it done by Bill at Westwerk German Auto in Downey; anyone know him or this shop? Overall he thought it was well looked after. It didn't seem to be overly worn or in bad shape. He didn't examine the convertible top but he doesn't know much about those anyways. He referred me to an auto trim place for that, I left a message. -gas cap seal was cracked, no leak but may cause problems with smog cert -some codes for misfires when he pulled the codes, likely related to poor quality fuel or letting gas get too low, nothing worrisome -AC good -alternator output a little low, 12.8 not 13.8 -very minimal rattle from engine or trans, he couldn't tell. he suspected either a transmission bearing or clutch flywheel, but didn't recommend doing anything about it for now, rather to wait and see if it gets any worse -no problems with engine or brakes on road test -clutch works fine but needs some lubricant, makes slight noise -turn signal doesn't cancel -drive belts were replaced but not pulleys, meaning pulleys may eventually wear out and make a noise -passenger seat doesn't go back or forth - usually a switch, but sometimes it's a motor problem with the power seat -few door dings that would be repairable with paintless repair -headlights could use restoring He recommended against fixing the IMS bearing; instead he said just to have a magnetic drain plug on the oil pan so with each oil change they can look for any metallic bits- if there are any, will need IMS repair. Any insight from you guys who have been through this? Thanks!

I think if you wait till you see metal bits on the plug it may be too late to change the bearing. Factor the cost in to your purchase price and do it proactively.

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agreed the damage could be to far done by then i looked for a car with the ims / rms / clutch done, got lucky and found one pretty quickly

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Because if I were to change the IMS, I would want to know the condition of the previous bearing and whether (or how much) degradation there was. Basically, on a car where the bearing has been changed, you have no way of knowing other than trusting what the seller tells you. An unscrupulous seller might consider replacing IMS and offloading the car soon afterwards if the IMS has started to fail, for example. Better the grenade you know than the grenade you don't, I guess. Given the relatively low rate of failure on the dual-row cars (MY99), I decided to not replace mine until the next clutch.

Where in So Ca are you? Decent cabs in your price range are all over the place here in San Diego and in Orange County. The harder thing to find are good coups. Seems like 20 cabs for every coup here.

http://sandiego.craigslist.org/csd/ctd/5934960411.html I'd offer them $18 cash and steal this one.

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PPI was done in Downey so my WAG is near there? OP, +996 to what Cuda above suggested about checking out SD & Orange County

That is a nice find! I just can't do yellow though... if that were grey or blue or black I'd be all in... Yes I'm in Los Angeles... I have exhausted cars.com, autotrader, LA area craigslist, and eBay... about to check out the SD/OC craigslist, thanks for the tip!

Have you tried CarGurus.com? There a few nice cabs on there.

Ah yes I tried that one too... made me lust after a 2005 911S that was way over my budget... had to stop. But will recheck since it has been a few weeks now...

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That car has some history here. https://rennlist.com/forums/996-forum/964706-allow-myself-to-introduce-myself.html

Last quote from that thread: "So to end my introduction thread, I said good bye to the yellow lady yesterday. Turns out she was a dirty ***** anyway so good riddens!" Guess that car wasn't so great after all...

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I didn't get that sense. I remember reading the thread and took a look at the Playa Del Rey car for Hawk when he was searching for a cab. I think the issues were that it was advertised as a C4 but was a C2. And the 2 back wheels were dented (shown in photos). I think I remember the dealer being pretty stand up about it. Other than the wheels needing repaired it looks like a pretty clean car. You may want to PM Hawk for more info.

Thanks Bash Hat! Will have a look at those two.

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Yikes. Great catch and thank you. Lessons learned: get or do a PPI before sending money! Car dealers lie, cheat steal(not really a new lesson). Dealer still advertises it as "Excellent condition". In reality, it should be salvage titled.

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Did you see this? https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post13795145

I did. Car was advertised as a C4 but was a C2. Dealer took the car back.

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Hmm. I assumed you were as picky as me. Personally I would not buy a car with chunks of metal missing from the transmission mounts.

I re-read it and missed the tranny holes (that doesn't sound right...). Yeah I'd pass on it.

Would be interesting to get that car on a chassis table and see what the orthogonality of the axles/chassis comes out to be. Might be a crab-style driver! Good for Nascar, always turns left. (NTTAWWT)

OP, not a cab but........in LA and should not need to do anything else but drive it: https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...ing-my-c2.html

For thread closure, I bought option #1. PPI showed a few things that need fixing (starting a new thread for that) and was able to negotiate down to $15k. Seal gray, cab, manual, 86k miles. Just drove it home with a smile on my face. Pics follow:

congrats

Congratulaions!