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YOUR RESEARCHDynoed my 996 C4 today
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Check option codes
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I checked all the option codes on the label under the hood and the x51 was not listed.
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The same CAI is already on mine, getting the IPD plenum installed now and then planning to ship in the ECU for a tune.
Install on monday and figured i'd get a pseudo baseline
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I'm having NHP high flow cats installed on Monday and figured I'd get a pseudo baseline.
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I have the majority of the service records and those have not been replaced according to the service history.
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My car is a '03 3.6 and I've been running a Fabspeed CAI with a BMC drop in filter along with a Softronic flash. I'm having NHP high flow cats installed on Monday and figured I'd get a pseudo baseline. I had 3 pulls on a Mustang dyno and had them run the last pull up to 7100 rpm. I probably could have had them go a little higher, but I'll wait for you kind folks to chime in. I'll be gettng the graphs on Monday, but here is a picture of my last run.
I meant to say 'Dynoed my 3.6 996 C4 today'. I just updated the post to mention that. Hoping the numbers still look okay given my current mods. I had searched around and saw numbers anywhere from 240 - 290. The Mustang dynos read lower than most of the others popular ones, like a Dynojet. The guys at the shop were pretty impressed that a N/A motor produced those numbers.
Looks really good. I love to see people posting before and after dynos for mods. When you post the graph, I'll be interested to see if the power is pretty consistent across the curve or if there is a noticeable peak that is producing the max number.
Thanks Slakker. I'll hopefully be posting the graph for this run by tomorrow afternoon. Can't wait to get the high flow cats installed! I'll go back in a couple of weeks and dyno it again.
I'd be curious what a lower milage stock C4 would do on the same dyno.
I'm replacing the pre cat O2 sensors tomorrow as well. I have the majority of the service records and those have not been replaced according to the service history.
Unfortunately, I don't think it would give very accurate data as the ECU has to adjust after being flashed. I also do not want to spend more time on the dyno and disconnect the cable from the ODB2, hook up the laptop and then flash the stock tune. After the session, I would have to reflash and then wait for the ECU to relearn everything again.
Thats at the wheels right? Thats really strong 300 whp with awd. These NA motors are fairly maxed out already though right? I'd rather not spend 5k for 20hp.....
those are good numbers for a CAI + flash. The same CAI is already on mine, getting the IPD plenum installed now and then planning to ship in the ECU for a tune. If I could add some headers and get close to 300rwhp that would be worth the time and money.
LOL, are you serious?
Those numbers are in the x51 territory considering Mustang dyno was used and awd.
Very nice numbers and healthy motor IMO. No use in going above 7k as little will be gained and more risk in having valvetrain issues on this motor.
Yes, it's at the wheels. That's with only the intake and Softronic flash which combined is under $1300. Considering a stock one should put down about 260 WHP on the same dyno, I'd say it was worth it to me.
These dyno runs are absolutely meaningless because most shops will set their machines on the very optimistic side to generate returning customers. They bump up the calibration to read high (many cases way higher than real life) so the customer can brag about it and perhaps return for more "testing". The only things they can be used is to see the before and after results of a modification. Even then, there are so many variables (environmental, how tight the straps were, etc.) that unless the modification was done on the same day, the results will not be accurate.
If you really want to learn something from a dyno pull, only look at the torque graph. The flatter is is, the more street friendly the engine is. Maybe see if there are abnormal dips in both graphs that could show issues but other than that, take the results with a huge grain of salt.
So let's see the graphs, uncorrected.
Depends on how the shop runs, but yes the runs are pretty useless without before/after on the same dyno. At the least you can see if the motor was hurt, or significantly down on power somewhere. If the shop does enough 996s they could tell you if you're in line with others, and corrected that's somewhat useful.
Thanks for posting, always nice to have more data points. Not a ton of 996 dyno info out there.
Yeah, I've been bringing my cars there for over 12 years. I'm not doing it to inflate my ego. I was just curious what the high flow cats would do to the torque curve. I know many parameters come into play when you do not do things while still strapped to the dyno, but this is for giggles.
I'm expecting the graphs very soon and will post them up, at least from my 3rd run.
Why you gotta be such a debbie downer all the time?
I think you are making a broad generalization.
These runs are a good baseline for the OP and only for the OP. However, I don't see them as totally meaningless. There's only so much correction and smoothing you can do and i haven't see many 3.6's hit this power level(non x51) on any Mustang dyno.
Well, this is how life is. Most dyno operators want repeat or referee customers and padding the numbers is a sure way to do it. Ask anyone that is in the tunning bussiness and they will tell you the same thing. The area under the curve is what's important, not the peak HP/TQ number.
yup, pretty easily. my tuner could change the settings and show 100 horsepower more if he wanted. and he does it all the time...he gets a feel for the customer and if he knows all they want is a peice of paper for bragging rights, he makes sure they have proof to puff their chest.
I would actually say that in my 43 years of life experience, most people in this country are pretty honest. I think questioning the integrity of "most dyno operators" says more about your character than theirs.
But I agree with your second point, especially with "tuned" systems, the peak number tends to be irrelevant. It's power throughout the band that matters. I even know one popular engine "internalist" on this forum that will only report average HP throughout the band and not peak as it is much more indicative of performance.
Once again, I think your making generalizations but I do understand these things do happen and don't deny it. My friend had a tuning business with both dynojet and mustang dyno's so I know the things that can happen.
I agree that broadband power is most important for the streets however you're always gonna have those internet guys that want to be HP king and whip out their big *****.
Generally though with Boxer motors, mods tends to favor mid-range increases and is quite a bit less peaky than with the same mods on inline and v motors from what I've observed.
These guys are legit. They knew I just wanted to do a baseline for an upcoming modification. I've been a long time customer of theirs so they didn't need to work any dyno sorcery for me. I've typically only used their dyno for pro tuning purposes over the years.
Still waiting on the email of the PDFs.
You need to open your eyes a bit more when it comes to what people do to keep their business going. I'm not one of them, I don't have business to run but deal with private contractors every day. You should question everything, all the time.
I trust people as majority of them are honest but when it comes to dynos, all bets are off. They are a great tool to compare before and after results and that's about it. It can be used to get rough idea what an engine can make but the differences between the brands and the tendency for the operator to make the values optimistic leaves me with very little confidence when it comes to peak HP figures.
Tdream1, I would really suggest sending a copy of the dyno and afr's to Softronic after you install your 200 cell cats and do another dyno run if it still looks like that. They should be able to fine tune your mapping to extract a bit more power. You are currently running on the rich side for a NA motor.
I would also be curious to see if the 200 cell cats emphasizes the variocam bump or not. This can also be tuned out to a certain degree.
Do you know what kind of smoothing your dyno operator set it to?
I haven't done a dyno pull in...6 years? And never on a Porsche, so there are specifics (is the number coming from a bung-mounted O2 sensor or from the tail pipe sniffer), etc.
One piece of tuning advice: Watch a bunch of YouTube dyno disaster videos. Don't do those things.
OP, if you're happy with the power and your car isn't getting sooty, running a little rich isn't necessarily a bad thing....
Tuning motors will be varied depending on type. For example, typical Honda inline motor likes to see as close to stoich as possible with a bit of safety margin, even if knock sensor is used. That's where they make some good power.
With the M96 boxer configuration however, it seems to be the best between 13-13.5:1 ratio. These are only from past observations as I personally only have experience tuning on other motors.
I'm sure someone like Jake can probably give a more definitive answer.
Considering how rich that graph shows and how hectic the Hp/Tq curves get when this happens makes me wonder what exactly this engine is making. The other thing to consider is that the tail pipe probe was only sampling one bank and even then, the sensor this far downstream and can become inaccurate. Would interesting to see if a stock tune and all stock parts put back would improve the A/F and the curves (not talking about actual power values).
the A/F ratios look good - those results are with stock cats - a fully accurate AF ratio is gained only if you place the sensor 3" after the merge collector of the headers - but since the stock cats are being used... that is not possible... as a result the readings with sensor in the tailpipe show 1-1.5 richer than they really are !!! your car is making great power and "smoothing" doesn't appear to be a concern here IMHO. Curious to see the power bump you'll be making with 200 cell cats... I'm thinking you'll have 7-8 lb/ft more from 4500 and up.
when you getting the new cats installed?
Thanks tbred911! The cats were installed this past Monday, but I have only put about 50 miles on the car since. I do feel a difference in the midrange. They sound amazing paired with my Fister D mufflers! I'm tied up with being on call this weekend, so no additional miles will be put on until next week. I want to get at least 250 on there to make sure I give the ECU plenty of time to adapt.
I will make an appointment with my shop to get the dyno done again and post the results in the next few weeks.
Make sure the software wasn't set for a flywheel HP correction factor. Mustang and some other dynes will allow the power figures to be corrected for expected drivetrain losses, not the net power at the wheels.
I never correct to flywheel power, if I want flywheel HP figures, I put the engine, on my engine dyno.
If those are net power figures with no flywheel HP correction, thats the strongest stock internal 3.6 on the planet. Congrats.
Jake, I just left a message with my shop to ask about the correction factor. I'm hoping it's not the case and my 996 is as strong as the numbers said. I'll update when I hear back from them.
These are abnormally high based on the tens of thousands of graphs that I have. All Dino's read differently, and you might just have the strongest 3.6 on the planet.
it could be the soft tronic flash is that good.... what octane gas where you running during the dyno test?
is that a 3.6 or a 3.6 with the x51 package from Porsche... do you know?
Yeah, the Softronic flash is great! I run Shell V-Power 93, exclusively.
My car is just the 3.6. I checked all the option codes on the label under the hood and the x51 was not listed.
