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THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
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YOUR RESEARCHEngine Failure AFTER IMS replacement
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Another thing to note is that just because the IMS bearing was compromised, it doesn't mean that it was the component that triggered the failure.
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Suggestion
Basically, the throttle cannot be depressed while take-off, the computer will sense clutch release and will adjust REV and THROTTLE as nessesary, then after clutch is fully released you can depress throttle.
Leading evidence: 'component' (1 discussions report identifying this cause; no attributable repair resolution). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'component' (1 discussions; 1 report identifying it and 0 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Adjust rev and throttle as nessesary' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
The video looked to be more promotional in nature, but basically they just checked the oil and moved onto installing the bearing.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
I had the clutch replaced with the IMS at 36k miles because I figured you may as well why the trans is dropped.
Replace clutch at the same time since the clutch had
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
Since the first IMS was changed at 21K miles, I am pretty confident they replaced the clutch at the same time since the clutch had to come out anyway.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
The engine must be inspected to make sure the bearing being replaced hasn't degraded to the point where there's too much debris in the engine.
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Adjust rev and throttle as nessesary
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Suggestion
Basically, the throttle cannot be depressed while take-off, the computer will sense clutch release and will adjust REV and THROTTLE as nessesary, then after clutch is fully released you can depress throttle.
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Suggestion
Keep in mind that all of these vehicles came from out of state and all of them went through a preliminary check sheet inspection before we accepted the jobs.
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Suggestion
I did mine myself, replacing an aftermarket replacement IMS bearing that was failing with a new one, inspected clutch and flywheel and all good so back in it went.
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28 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
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Generation: 20261027T013556Z · outcome-qualification-6. Deterministic extraction; no AI model inference. How we use sources
Interesting 996 40th Anniversary Edition for sale in Northern California. The quite lengthy history on the car shows the IMS being replaced in 2014 then the aftermarket IMS bearing failing in 2017 causing a complete engine failure.
http://vi.vipr.ebaydesc.com/ws/eBayI...1&secureDesc=0
Probably the original IMS had already failed spreading metal throughout the engine.
The replacement was made too late because the engine had already been damaged.
3 years (and how many miles?) later the engine finally died.
Yeah, not too surprising. Another unfortunate phenomenon with these engines is once debris from a failing IMSB enters the engine, many things can start failing. Bearings, scavenge pumps, and even the new IMSB to name a few.
I believe this is why the engine must be pre-qualified before replacement. The engine must be inspected to make sure the bearing being replaced hasn't degraded to the point where there's too much debris in the engine. After a certain point, the debris is too much and installing a new IMSB is basically just putting a band aid on a imminent failure. Wasting money on a new IMSB and the labor costs.
Just because it was replaced doesn't mean it was "Burned through". lol
Since the first IMS was changed at 21K miles, I am pretty confident they replaced the clutch at the same time since the clutch had to come out anyway. One of those "while you are in there..." moments.
Hmm, it seems like I heard someone else recommend this as well.
If I remember right he lives in GA and co-invented The IMS Solution.
Just can't argue with someone who has probably seen more used IMS bearings than anyone else.
Another thing to note is that just because the IMS bearing was compromised, it doesn't mean that it was the component that triggered the failure. It could have been one of the other 6,234,578 modes of failure and the bearing was just collateral damage.
I bought mine with 19K on the clock. We didn't intend to replace the clutch, but it was done when we pulled it off to do the IMSB. Mine was a LA/SD car, I think all the stop and go traffic had something to do with it.
Similarly got mine with 23k miles, had the IMS replaced at 25k and had the clutch done at the same time because the only cost it added was the clutch itself and no additional labor. One less thing to replace down the road.
I dunno, how much is a clutch kit? $1,000? If the clutch has 80% life left after I pulled it apart, I might be inclined to just put it back as-is. Then again, that assumes I have time to inspect, then buy the parts, wait for them to arrive, then reassemble. Not everyone has the time or space.
I guess it depends on if you are paying labour or not. I did mine myself, replacing an aftermarket replacement IMS bearing that was failing with a new one, inspected clutch and flywheel and all good so back in it went. When clutch does eventually go, I'll drop the transmission down again (and take opportunity to inspect IMS bearing again). Really not a huge job, even on jack stands.
Yep, I totally agree. The pre-qualification requirement makes total sense. Why would you want to invest thousands of dollars installing a product in a car that has serious problems that will later cause even more serious problems? Like many of you, I've read one too many stories where shops, that don't care either way, install a bearing in a metal contaminated car. It's all about money to them and don't care about the owner.
Also, I did the clutch and AOS. I didn't realize it, but my clutch had worn down to the rivets. The AOS was still performing okay, but the manometer reading was a little low and so it was replaced to save future labor costs.
My expansion tank now has a crack in it and I blame all the people here at Rennlist, cause I think the problem has become contagious. hahaha This is the year of expansion!
I've seen people burn up new clutches in a matter of minutes. Some people can destroy anything.
The Carrera GT has a special take-off procedure that MUST be followed or the triple disk carbon fiber clutch will be toasted.
Basically, the throttle cannot be depressed while take-off, the computer will sense clutch release and will adjust REV and THROTTLE as nessesary, then after clutch is fully released you can depress throttle. The engine will rev so fast and so high that trying to do it your self will result in a burnt clutch to the tune of 10,000 bucks !! I have seen these clutches burnt out while leaving the dealership, on a slight hill going onto the main road.
I didn�t know that with the CGT. But that�s how I try to drive my car as well. I only use throttle after the engine and input shaft of tranny are the same speed between shifts, aside from starting off in 1st from a dead stop. But I baby 1st to get moving. Once synchronized and locked, then hammer down. A clutch can last 100,000+ this way. But to your point, can be destroyed in 15 mins if I were to try.
I had the clutch replaced with the IMS at 36k miles because I figured you may as well why the trans is dropped. I am sure the owner of that car had the exact same logic.
Pre- Qualification procedures were developed, and are a required procedure for all Certified Installers for good reasons.
We are a few days into our November IMS Solution Clinic here at Flat 6. We set aside November and May for these semi- annual installation Clinics and do all the IMS Solution work at these times only.
So far, 6 days in and we've qualified one 996 out of four that have arrived for the service.
The other 3 had debris laden oil, high cam deviations, or failing cylinders. Keep in mind that all of these vehicles came from out of state and all of them went through a preliminary check sheet inspection before we accepted the jobs. The local shops that carried these things out simply failed to do their jobs, and we found all of these issues immediately upon arrival here at Flat 6. One of them was diagnosed audibly and we knew it had a failing cylinder right off the truck. We held the truck to confirm this, and we packed it up and sent the car right back home again.
People just don't pay attention. If the car "runs fine" they assume that its all perfect inside. This could not be further from the truth.
On the flip side we are seeing a ton of technicians that are seeing warning signs and not reporting the issues, and just marching forward with the installation of the IMS retrofit kit. Why? Well, because they work on a commission based pay scale and if they do the right thing, they lose money at the end of the week. They are penalized for doing the right thing, so even good ones choose to do the wrong thing.
These are the reasons why choosing an IMS Solution Certified Installer simply makes sense. No one else has anything to lose, and they don't have to answer for their mistakes, or inadequacies. Certified Installers have a lot to lose. They will lose it with one single infraction, and they know it.
I watched a video that was recently posted to YouTube where a shop was preparing to install an LN IMS retrofit bearing. The video looked to be more promotional in nature, but basically they just checked the oil and moved onto installing the bearing. Skipped over all 10 other steps you have listed in the install manual.
Yes, those videoXperts on YouTube... They are usually one step above the "forumites" (as Mr. Raby calls them!) that parrot info from one forum to another, and do so as their own.
After years of me prodding him, Mr. Raby has finally agreed to start a YouTube channel (Rennvision) and one of these first videos is on the topic of pre- qualification. This video is aimed toward the DIY/ non- professional installer of IMS products and hits all the vital points.
You Tube
Subscribe to the channel, several videos are being shot each month and will soon be posted on a weekly basis, all technical in nature, and the vast majority focus on the M96/ M97 engine.
Oh, this is great news! I learned a lot from the PCA videos and look forward to seeing more from Jake Raby. I really appreciate his contribution to the DIY Porsche community.
