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YOUR RESEARCHIs there an optimal oil level?
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operators manual
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It was the operators manual for an RND rebuilt engine.
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Folks checked it out and said nothing to worry about, likely AOS once they checked the oil level which was full.
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One owner over filled the engine by over a quart due to this.
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No, I did not....but when they installed the 997S 3.8 in in my 996, I made sure it had the deep sump plus I have Turbo heat radiators plus a center radiator.
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Suggestion
Last year I start to fill the oil to mid point of indicator and mid point on dipstick, so far 2 oil changes, no meaningful lost of oil and I have not experience any puff of blue smoke in the situation I described above.
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No, I did not....but when they installed the 997S 3.8 in in my 996, I made sure it had the deep sump plus I have Turbo heat radiators plus a center radiator.
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I was reading through an engine rebuild manual for how to properly maintain the engine. With respect to oil level, it was very clear that oil should be checked in the morning and should be around the middle mark. It said that if it is any higher then it is possible the oil will be over filled when engine is at operating temp. In addition, oil should not be added until the level comes down to the lower mark. Lastly, running oil near the top mark only increases the chances of consuming oil faster than if the oil was closer to the middle area.
My only question is that I like to run the oil near the top, but not over. My thinking is that the IMSB gets to sit in more oil when the car is not running. Please comment on whether this really matters or is it just fine to be anywhere as long as it is between the min and max marks?
For me, check stone cold in the morning (and no...not every morning). I keep my level to the top mark on the dipstick. More volume is better in my opinion. 142K miles currently. I manually check it about once a week, but during daily operation, I just wait for the oil level to show on the cluster making sure there is oil, then start and I'm off. I would not over-think this too much.
The optimum oil level has proven to be in the middle of the indicator. We try to keep our engines between the arrows of the electronic indicator, and the same on the cars with a dipstick. Running near the top, or at the top has proven to adversely impact the health of the AOS, and increases oil consumption. We are seeing cars with secondary air faults from high oil levels as well, its 993 all over again.
Running n the center of the indicator ensures that you aren�t running too low, or too high, and you�ll never have to worry about over- filling if this is done. Only add oil when the indicator is at the very bottom, (after the car has sat overnight on a level surface!) then add 1/2 of 1 Qt and you�ll be right back to the center again.
I also noticed that these cars don't like to be parked on a sideways tilt. Usually results in some smoking at startup and one time my car actually through a P1325. The fault went away on its own and I really can't confirm that the fault was a result of a sideways tilted parking event. Just happened to be at the same time. Possible that having oil at mid level or just above the add mark would also be helpful when you can't avoid parking at a slight sideways tilt.
Middle mark is maybe a quart low? Not sure getting to op temp would increase volume that much to show an overfill. Anyway, I run at full (measured cold as documented) in hot Texas weather mostly between 3K and 4K and I've not experienced any oil consumption. I change oil every 6 months (about 3,000 miles) and have never had to top off. 2004 40AE with IMS Solution.
I need to add a quart every 1400 miles. I have been running my oil very close to the top. I may try running it a little lower and see if my consumption changes at all. Would be an interesting experiment.
No! The engine is not Low on oil until the indicator is all the way at the bottom, and flashing! The entire range of the indicator is the safe operating range.
Yes, if you believe that putting the oil level at tip top is best, you can expect short drives and parking unlevel will create more start up smoke. We�ve recently had to shoot an in-depth video about this for our engine purchasers. It�s a constant fight to make them understand that to us, the middle of the indicator is �full�. The only time we use the top of the indicator is when doing an oil consumption study.
Well, stone cold in the morning is probably relative to where you live. Here, most mornings are high 80's to 90, so I figure the engine is already half way to operating temperature. So the oil temperature is going to also be half way to operating temperature. The warm oil drains back into the sump overnight, I check it on the dipstick, and then during my daily runs, the oil level gauge consistently shows one to two bars below the max line. So I'm not overfilling and have no smoke or AOS problems, and my TB is clean as a whistle. Just my method of operating the car, which given my mileage, seems to be right enough. Don't get me started on the Mini Cooper...check oil at least once a week and always keep it on the full line because it eats oil and only holds a little over 4 quarts, so any drop in level is significant.
The two should run the same, or very close to the same. Any notable deviations between the two can indicate that the electronic unit is malfunctioning.
We now find it necessry to replace the electronic senders in the engines when we carry out reconstruction. A few years ago we had several of these fail, and they always show abnormally low oil readings when that happened. One owner over filled the engine by over a quart due to this. This resulted in a failed (new) AOS and other damage.
@USNA1970,
You should note the differences of the oil level being ran at the center of the indicator within a couple thousand miles. In many instances running with the lesser level will decrease oil consumption by 50%.
Remember, anything that makes the engine �happier� is what needs to be done. It doesn�t matter what the owner�s manual said, all of that was written before these cars were utilized in practical application. Keep it happy.
My car has 111k miles on the clock and I run Shell Rotella T6 5w40. I usually fill my car to the top of the dipstick at an oil change
My oil consumption between changes is zero; it literally doesn't move at all between oil swaps, never any smoke at startup
how many miles between oil changes?
do you run it up to Red line often?
I drive between 3-4k rpm regularly and often up to red line. Hardly ever use 6th gear. I'm close to a quart usage for 5k miles. I run near or at top of dip stick. I will try half way on dip stick next oil change and see what happens.
3.6l with 54k miles. 5/40 liquid Molly. No smoke ever.
As long as people are sharing data points, I'll share mine. 2001 3.4 C2, 85,000 miles. I've owned the car since about 70,000 miles. I typically change the oil about every 3,000 miles. Each oil change usually includes 2-3 track weekends. I also drive the car to work, about 5 miles each way, although frequently I'll take a longer route home to get it warmer and enjoy the car a little bit.
I maintain my fill level 1 bar below the top on the electronic gauge. My thinking is that more oil is better for absorbing heat and contaminants and avoiding starvation, but overfilling is bad for the AOS and other things, so "almost full" is a good compromise. This is pretty much how I've operated every engine I've ever owned; keep it near the "full" mark, but being careful to never over-fill.
My oil level never changes in the car. Once I get it properly set after an oil change, which might take a day or two of topping off a couple cups at a time, it is deadly consistent, regardless of city/highway/track/summer/winter, etc. After sitting overnight it will be 1 bar below full. After a full day parked outside at work in the summer, it will be at the full mark. Not sure if this is a different measurement because of slight thermal expansion, or slightly different slope to my parking space at work vs. the garage at home. Under any other conditions I ignore the gauge completely. If the engine is hot, the car is tilted, etc., the gauge might say anything, and can't be trusted.
Once in a blue moon, I'll estimate maybe once every 500 starts, I'll get a significant puff of smoke at startup. This is usually when starting the car with the engine still warm, and after being parked on a slight slope of some kind, and/or driven hard before being shut off. I think this has happened 3 times in my ownership. I assume it's some oil trapped in the cylinders due to weird conditions at shutoff and being parked on a tilt. People seem to say it's nothing to worry about, so I'm fine not worrying about it. The amount of smoke that's produced probably equates to less than a thimble full of oil being burned anyway.
I try to keep mine (99 C2) about the 1/2 way mark. The dipstick is usually the same as the dash gauge. Stone cold in the garage on a flat surface. Never any smoke that I can tell.
I agree with that, I did also a more detailed comparison for some time between digital and manual oil level checks under various circumstances. And both were indicating equal levels.
Jake, replacing the sender unit as a standard procedure during rebuilds sounds like a wise iteration. Good tip!
I have seen the opposite in a 997.1 where the digi-dipstick says full but only 3 quarts of oil came out of the sump when doing an oil change ... ooops.
Still don�t understand why they removed the manual dip stick.
Anyone can tell me or estimate how much oil gets circulated extra out of the sump into the engine when idling and reaching a steady state. Is it around 1 quart?
I am absorbing all of these perspectives due to my keen interest in this space. On my first track day last year my car gave a puff of smoke on a couple of shifts coming out of a high G turn. Folks checked it out and said nothing to worry about, likely AOS once they checked the oil level which was full. The suggestion was run it at mid level. So before the next track day I lowered the oil level to mid. In my second session, I blew my engine due to a rod bearing failure....confirmed as oil starvation. Now I know that doesn't happen in one track day and was likely the issue for years but it was an eerie coincidence.
Normally about 6k miles between oil changes, my filter has been clean when I cut it open, I have high strength magnets mounted on the outside of the plastic oil filter housing and they seem to capture a little fine ferrous spooge between changes, nothing concerning. I put a brand new AOS on it a year ago.
Nope, I've never run it to red line. Just 5.5krpm on occasion, I don't drive it that hard but not slow
I used to have my oil just 1 bar from the top and almost to the top on the dip stick. Never see any meaningful lost of oil when I change it but on a 6 month interval about 3500 to 4000 miles. One thing it does happen to me from time to time is quick shut down and quick restart, I get a puff of blue smoke. For example, cold start in the morning, move the car 10 feet back out of garage shut it down, wash it and one out of maybe 10 times, I get a puff of blue smoke when start the car.
Last year I start to fill the oil to mid point of indicator and mid point on dipstick, so far 2 oil changes, no meaningful lost of oil and I have not experience any puff of blue smoke in the situation I described above. granted its not long enough time to say it won't happen but I will keep it at mid point and I did purchased 1/2 qt deep sump and baffle to add for the next oil change and goal is do an occasional track night thing just to run a few sessions.
My '99 has 45k miles on the engine (Porsche remanufacture in 2005). I fill it to the top with 0w40 mobile 1, and the oil level stays at the top until
it gets its annual oil change. I've never seen smoke on startup. I do gentle warm up and don't stress the engine
until fully warmed. I drive only about 2K miles a year, but the engine does see redline about a dozen times a day on days that I do drive.
Since the car sits for weeks between starts, I typically pull out the fuel injector and fuel pump fuses and crank the engine a bunch before
I let the engine start. If I'm lazy or running late, I just start the engine and immediately shutdown, and repeat a couple of times before I
start it for real. I think this is what Jake Raby recommends.
Yes he does. But that is too much work for me :-) My oil change takes more than a week. I drain the oil, replace the drain plug,
then spend the next few days slowly dissecting and examining the oil filter. A week or two later I open the drain plug and drain out another
pint or so of oil. I suspect that the oil from the second drain comes from inside the intermediate shaft but who knows. It seems strange
that in our engines some of the oil takes so long to coming out of their hiding place.
No, I did not....but when they installed the 997S 3.8 in in my 996, I made sure it had the deep sump plus I have Turbo heat radiators plus a center radiator. I don't want to ever see this failure again. :-)
Hi. Long time lurker here, but newbie to the Porsche world. Curious... why do you take so long to change your oil? Called the dealership and they said it can be done the same day. Is there something about letting it sit that's important? I see you say something about the shaft, but wouldn't that oil be trapped?
No offense but this is highly irrational. There's no reason a routine oil change should take more than an hour. If any car required being out of commission for weeks for routine maintenance, nobody would buy it.
I feel the same way about sending in oil for UOAs. I know I should just bury my head in the sand and assume my car works perfectly as long as I treat it right. But....I get some enjoyment out of the obsessing.
If I were more rational I'd be driving a camry and go to jiffy lub once a year instead :-) But I think the M96 engine brings out my OCD. Until this car I've never used a torque wrench to tighten the oil filter, examine the old filter
for glitter/plastic bits, nor have an engine replacement at 45k miles.
I park my car for a couple of months in the winter anyways, so taking a week or two months to do an oil change doesn't bother me. I quite enjoy using the down time to do other maintenance. It is a hobby after all.
yes...and the engine did go in a long right sweeper as well. Learned my lesson for sure. I have posted before but thought you guys may want to see the crankshaft.
03 C2 here, bought at 71k now at 93k. Consumption and smoke have gone down for me since doing the half-full thing. My perception of the 996 has improved over the past few years, oddly enough. Not a cheap car to drive but fun & reliable - 2 of 3!
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