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YOUR RESEARCHBlue Chip's Build Thread - FSI Edition
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broker
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I originally went through a company that turned out to be a broker.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
Assuming the street (Yoko AD08R) are similar to the track tires (NT01) - that's an additional 37# of unsprung savings bringing the adjusted dry weight to 2983.
Leading evidence: 'broker' (1 discussions report identifying this cause; no attributable repair resolution). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'broker' (1 discussions; 1 report identifying it and 0 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Adjust dry weight' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
Assuming the street (Yoko AD08R) are similar to the track tires (NT01) - that's an additional 37# of unsprung savings bringing the adjusted dry weight to 2983.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
Brake fluid replaced with fresh motul 600 at no charge.
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Adjust dry weight
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
Assuming the street (Yoko AD08R) are similar to the track tires (NT01) - that's an additional 37# of unsprung savings bringing the adjusted dry weight to 2983.
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Suggestion
I DON'T love worrying about things, things that are unreliable, and things that need constant repair - much less repair from potentially catastrophic things.
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Suggestion
I DON'T love worrying about things, things that are unreliable, and things that need constant repair - much less repair from potentially catastrophic things.
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So Blue Chip was the winner of my FSI fire sale. I needed to pay for the 996TT I bought which meant it was time to fess up to my wife. I knew having the FSI sold would make a big difference so I laid down the deal and he jumped on it. As part of it, as some may remember, I offered to also do (almost) any upgrades for free labor. There are lots of ideas being tossed around so we will see what he comes up with. In the meantime, I�ve got plenty to work on prepping for his car�s arrival.
First off is to drop the FSI 3.8L. I do a few things different than the book says so I'll detail those as I go. First step is to drain the brake fluid. This was an easy decision because it was due to change anyways, but if it wasn�t, I would only drain the clutch bleeder then reuse the fluid.
Wait, did you say reuse the fluid? Absolutely. Thy talk about throwing away a bottle of brake fluid a month after you open it but do you have to do the same thing after opening the reservoir? No, because it�s an old wives tale. I bled the system dry in my race car 5 or 6 times last year for different projects. There was no way i was going to buy $100 of Castrol SRF every time. So I reused it and had 0 fade issues in 30 track days.
Bleeding the brakes with my motive bleeder and genesis catch bottles(Amazon).
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And now the important part, bleeding the clutch all the way dry:
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So there I was - minding my own business.....
And one day, Blue Chip woke up and looked at his perfectly running 996 track car and thought to himself - "Self, there really isn't anything that I want to do to this car today." So he went to the office and read the forums and came across his pal Slakkers thread about selling his car - and then saw the part about "trades considered."
Then, after a few conversations, Blue was preparing his car to be shipped to OK for a new motor that will make him smile.
The end.
Sweet!
Got a little more prep work done today. Removed the cross braces. Unhooked the shift cables, reverse light and axles from transmission. Also unscrewed the hydraulic line from the slave cylinder. I’ve read about too many issues trying to remove/install the slave cylinder with the transmission in the car. It is much easier to pull it after you get the tranny out and reinstall before it goes back in. The key is you just need to bleed all the fluid from the clutch line and the whole thing is drama free.
Cross braces that need to be removed. Make sure you aren’t blocking the bolts by the rear jackpoints when you lift the car.
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Zip ties cut and shift cables unhooked. Kind of a funny story. The guy I sold my race car to asked me what part he needed to get to fix the shift cables being zip tied. I told him that was standard practice and nothing was needed. I could tell he thought I was absolutely lying to him. But sure enough, that’s how they came from FSI as well.
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Slave cylinder line detached.
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Headed to Dallas at 4:30 AM but will be back to finish dropping the engine this weekend.
It looks like it could be potentially problematic if the car has to pass over a bump or debris in the road... I'd be tucking that up over that coolant line. I was able to get mine way up in there right next to the crank-case but without any contact/rubbing.
I dunno...the hose appears to be higher than the oil filter. I think to get to it there would be a whole lot of other damage done first. Could be just the angle of the pic.
^Nope^... Way lower than the oil filter. That coolant hose hangs lower than the oil filter and the oil line from the filter adapter (braided stainless) is below that. If you'd ever done one of these, it'd be pretty obvious what Ahsai was pointing out
My last shortcut is unhooking the AC compressor as opposed to removing it. I just thinks it's easier to buy a can of Freon than to remover the PS reservoir and the AC compressor.
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Slakker
when you unhook the ac compressor do you mean disconnect the lines and remove the compressor? Do you have a vacuuum pump to evacuate the ac system?
Messing around a bit tonight tonight and grabbed the corner weights, ride height, and camber (maxed out) off of the X74 suspension. The ride heights and cross weights actually looked really good. Camber was -2.1/2.1R and -2.5/-2.3F. Cross weights were with approx 7 gals of gas and an undisclosed driver weight.
Front ride height
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Rear Rude Height:
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Cross weights:
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3274 was with driver and fuel. That car needs a diet. Badly.
A little more detail.... dry weight is 3020 currently. The wheels on the car are the Carerra Sport Designs (26.5# front and 29# rear). The track wheels are OZ Alleggrita HLT's which, respectively are 18 and 19# each. Assuming the street (Yoko AD08R) are similar to the track tires (NT01) - that's an additional 37# of unsprung savings bringing the adjusted dry weight to 2983.
The car was optioned with full leather - so that's some weight there too. The MK I aero is not on the option build code - so I assume it is aftermarket. To date - here are some of the things that will impact the weight of the car...
3rd radiator and deep sump pan were added.
Cabin
Both full power seats were removed and replaced with OMP seats - driver seat is a Carbon, student seat is F/G.
Rear seats removed along with hardware
All seatbelts removed
Center console delete
RSS 930 bar and OMP harnesses
Rennline aluminum floorboards (over the carpet)
Steering wheel replaced with OMP non-airbag)
Car still has: Stereo, speakers, door panels, sunroof, all carpeting (except floor mats), head liner, glass windows,
Frunk
is still fully lined and carpeted but has the spare and CD player removed. Stock battery, etc.
Exhaust:
NHP cat-delete cross pipes
Fabspeed MaxFlo mufflers
Low hanging opportunity: Maybe worth 50 pounds
Stereo and speakers
Frunk liner / panels
Rear carpeting
Lighter battery
Driver weight loss
With that said - the weight could get into the low 2900 range with very little effort or changes. If I opt to go the Ohlins route - there may be some savings there over the X74 but I'm not sure.
At this point - this thread is becoming about SO much more than a 'simple' 3.4 to 3.8 stroker FSI stroker motor swap.
I really hope my kids are cool with community college and ramen noodles for a while.... lol!
Yes it's is.
A bit of ghetto engineering last night. I'm going to have 3 engines on the ground at the same time and didn't want to buy 3 ATV lifts. This one is a blown engine so I could take a bit of a chance. So I put a furniture dolly over my floor jack and used a piece of 2x6 between the jack and the engine. I had additional 2x6's next to the jack for the dolly to sit on giving the jack room to slide out underneath after I set the engine down. It seemed like a janky idea but the whole thing worked like a charm.
And the relevance to this thread? The like new tranny with an OS Gikken LSD will be mated to Blue Chip's 3.8L prior to reinsertion. For track use, especially once you are up to the advanced group, a Gikken or Guard LSD is the best mod there is in my opinion.
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The car was already really well set up for the track. Between the X74 and some Tarett suspension bits - it handled like a charm....
What's going on now really is next level. The nice part is that I feel like I'll be able to appreciate it - certainly moreso than if I were running with the lower run groups at DE's.
The extra 60hp, monster improvement in power delivery though the torque curve, the OS limited slip, and now the Ohlins coupled with Elephant Racing LCA's and other bits - the car will be entirely new.
The only down side?
When it comes back I have to promise to put Slakker up for the weekend to run my home track in her.... Sebring.
Lightweight 996 C2s are so much fun to drive on the track. Combine it with sticky tires, great brakes, and a good track setup an the smiles keep coming. I think It is more fun than the turbo to drive.
Enjoyed reading about your build. It is going to be a beast with Slakker�s FS1. Let me know if you make up to Virginia International Raceway or Summit Point.
We are planning on VIR this year. Myself and 4 other instructors are looking to make the trip in the springtime. 997 track car, 997S, Cayman S, a Spec 996, and whatever my car turns into....
Slakker, I used 3M VHB tape to hold down the carbon fiber roof. . I also added four bolts in the rack mount holes. Rock solid. The build thread is here:
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...rack-mods.html
Excellent. Maybe PCA Zone 2 on March 16? That might be my first event of the year if I can push some work stuff out. It is a really fun track.
Here is a video of my last session there:
You Tube
Were those type 2 over revs on the ECU before it became a 3.8? I assume they were. I have very personal experience that less that 300 Type 2 over revs can destroy a motor.
The type 2s are on the existing 3.4l. They are long enough ago that they aren't really relevant. I know about your experience and others that were very similar vs my track car which had 820 type 2. So I don't know how that all adds up.
I think it all comes down to luck and wishes. It's amazing how the same exact set-up can yield different results.
This is an awesome project you are working on. Always like it when people figure out a way to maximize profits/minimize losses.
Thanks Kris. I can't figure out if Blue Chip is taking advantage of my "free installation of upgrades" while I have it or if I'm taking advantage of him by doing my next build on his dime. But I'm pretty sure it's one of the two.
Somehow, something is happening. I�m pretty sure I�m lending Slakker money and he�s doing free labor - but he�s also agreed not to pay me back - just give me back my car that only looks like my car but drives like a much cooler one. I think. I dunno any more.
That actually makes sense. Hmmm.
Ok, got the first corner built. The dismantling of the old car and remantling of the new is taking longer than it probably should but better slow than sloppy. One thing I had forgotten is how much I hate reinstalling front Calipers. Even with taking the pads out it never seems to line up quite right due to the brake hose bracket. On my cars, one of the first things I do is swap out the brake bracket bolt for a stud and washer. For Christmas, I bought a set of brake caliper studs and bolts for my kids to wrap and give to me. Those will be going on the TT.
Front driver before with X74 shock and OEM LCA:
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Afterwards with Elephant monoball LCA with adjustable caster and camber along with an Ohlins R/T adjustable shock.
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I�ll tell ya - I have pretty high expectations for the new stuff. The X74 has been the best driving suspension I have ever used (aside from a 996 Cup) and is going to be tough to beat.
Dang. That's a lot of pressure. I better take it to the track a few times to test it before I send it back. I need to make sure it will meet your expectations. Is April 1st a good date to have it ready to ship?
Slow going the last few nights trying but finally back on track. Pre pics for front passenger corner. And need a little more camber? Try this....
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Yep! That won't be an issue anymore though.
Second corner built with Ohlins R/T, Elephant Camber Plates and Elephant monoball LCA's. This is the last piece I needed to do on the ground. I now have everything to get the other car back together and off the lift so that this one can go on the lift for the fun stuff.
Time to nitpick as I go. Black cross brace by passenger rear jackpoint was cross threaded. Both of the same braces on other end were torqued well above 100lbs. Spec is 48.
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It's coming along at a decent pace. Not getting to spend as much time as I'd like on it but enjoying it when I do.
I've got some oil on the passenger axle. Any thoughts? Will post in separate thread if I need to.
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Prepped for reentry! 3.8L FSI with underdrive pulley, nearly new factory refurb transmission with OS Gikken LSD, mated to existing Fabspeed x-pipe and mufflers. Exhaust torqued to 17lbs, transmission torqued to 63 and 33lbs. This is going to be a BEAST!
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i believe the HP comes in right at 355 (maybe 360). When I spoke with FSI they don�t seem to be concerned with peak HP as much as usable power - they pride themselves on the torque curve. I have to look - I think Slakker sent it to me...
wow. thats almost kinda funny that something as simple as a dyno sheet could turn a thread south. Can you link me the thread? sounds like a good read. thx.
It was deleted. All that really matters about this engine is that it gives the car the extra umph that it's missing in the straights. Plus it is built with true racing components that will hold up under continued track use. The 3.8 combined with the Gikken LSD will completely change this car. The Ohlins shocks and monoball suspension will be icing on the cake.
Torque peaks at 4900K RPM with almost zero drop from 4900 to 6000. Between 6 and 7K its a totally linear drop off.
The sweet spot is from about 4250RPM through 6500RPM.
It's really about usable power with this motor - and with such a wide band of power (that's not limited to 6500RPM and above - it will be a great track motor and be able to generate the majority of its power in the upper - but not maxed out RPM ranges. In other words - I don't have to flog the chit out of this thing to get it to perform. Almost certainly never a reason to bounce off the limiter.... that's for sure.
I think people need to focus that the FSI engines are a great investment due the strength and longevity for hard track use. The increase in cost over a less quality rebuild is not meant to be only about performance gains that is just an added bonus.
That was all the difference for me. My current 3.4 already had many of the upgrades done - it had the new IMS bearing, ARP rods, etc - as well as a new oil pump, new therms, etc... BUT - it didn't have the YEARS of R&D, experience, and expertise that FSI could provide. Fact is - I was going to wait for another year or so and get on Jakes list - albeit, for another 3.4 but with the right upgrades. For me - the 3.8l conversion is cool - but its the reliability that gets me excited.
I track this car as a hobby - and I love doing it. I DON'T love worrying about things, things that are unreliable, and things that need constant repair - much less repair from potentially catastrophic things. With the FSI motor - short of a money-shift - I feel pretty safe. My other hobby is offshore fishing - I repowered my twin 250's for the same reason - reliability and worry free.
Like many here - we work hard to afford these cars - the expense goes up exponentially when you introduce a primarily track-use car. Time is my commodity - not necessarily money. I feel like this move essentially protects both in a very harsh environment.
By the way - those Wevo Semi-solid mounts were a SIGNIFICANT improvement to the car - both on the street and the track. Partly due to the old ones being worn - but they may a huge (cheap) difference to the feel of the car. I highly recco!
I'm not sure of the question. This is stock 3.4L built out to a 3.8L by Flat 6 innovations. So it just plugs right back in.
Master cylinder upgraded to a 997 GT3 MC for improved pedal feel. This a great upgrade for the money. It's a direct replacement but with a higher ratio. Outer nuts tightened to 34lbs, inner bolts to 17lbs. Brake lines snugged up firmly.
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Engine started and brought up to temp. Initially it was idling rough and spit off some cyl 1,2,3 misfires. As the ecu adapted it smoothed out and started purring like a kitten.
Rebled the brakes and clutch. All bleeders firmly snugged and triple checked. Did I ever tell you about the time I didn't get a bleeder tight enough.....
The car is officially all back together. Only the setup and final checks remain. With the initial challenges I had on. The cross bracing, I was a little concerned about what I was getting into. But the car was in great shape and well cared for. All of the bolts that mattered felt like they properly torqued and I didn't find any sloppy work.
The cross brace bolt hole that was cross threaded gave me a good excuse to break out the new tap set. It cleaned right up without issue.
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The rear suspension looks solid. Pun intended.
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And the 997S Airbox with the 3.8 badge is a nice upgrade and a nice touch.
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And I did get the IMS Solution rerouted without issue.
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Make sure that braided oil line isn't touching the coolant pipe below it - if you can't get it to stand off the coolant pipe stick a piece of rubber hose around it (or the coolant pipe). It looks like you did a great job!
Thanks dporto. Good call on the line.
Now for the setup. I won't say how much weight I'm adding for the driver just that it's all the weight in my garage.
Targets:
Height 4.25F 4.75R
Camber: -3.8F, -3.3R
Toe: 0mmF, 1mm In rear
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Starting numbers. The left side is already at target heights and the right side is a little high. But, the right side is heavier and throwing off the cross weights. So I'll lower the left side aiming for our target height at roll center with a 50% cross weight.
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Lol! I forgot to mention that it was because I still had the weights out here from when I put it on the scale the first time.
Jumanji! This doesn't usually happen first try. 50% cross weights at target heights.
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Ride heights ended up a hair under targets at roll center(average) which fine. Over would not be fine even though it's really tough to tell a 1/16ths difference when driving.
Left front
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Right front
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Left rear
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Right rear
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200lbs of dumbbells in the driver's seat. Weight shows 3261 which is 13lbs lighter. Not sure how much of that is loss and how much is just scale variance.
The waiting game......
Car is done and waiting for transport. Should get picked up Friday and delivered back here Tuesday / Wednesday. Weather across the country is the current delay..... ugh.
That said, assuming it's back here next week some time, I have roughly 2 weeks to try to drive it - then it's off to the 'season opener' at Roebling Road for me to learn the 'new car' before things heat up at Sebring....
Initial driving impressions from Slakker "Holy chit - this is what a track car should feel like...... "
I'm not sure what that means - but I think I like it.
If this is your dedicated track car then it sounds like Slakker is telling you the 2018 season is going to rule. Cheers, this was a fun thread. Looking forward to your first posts with the car.
Getting close to having it all wrapped up. Final bleeding of the brakes and clutch to get the last little bubbles out after about 20 miles of driving.
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And the final torque and paint is complete.
She looks pretty much the same as when she got here but now is a beast underneath. I can't wait to drive Sebring in her later this year!
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And this is Edwin. After handling the transportation both ways he's become almost like family.
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I think it will be back Tuesday or Wednesday... I can't wait!
Edwin is the owner / operator of this transit company. I originally went through a company that turned out to be a broker. After the care that Edwin took of the car, his communication style (lots of it) and his up front honesty - I'll use him again and make a recco to contact him direct. It'll save a couple hundred bucks too by removing the broker.
Can't wait to get Slakker down here for the bumps at Sebring.
I'll have to start a new thread on the evolution of this car - but I have had a SMALL amount of wheel time with it - mind you, only on public roads and highways.
First - its a completely different car. New noises, new sounds, new feel. More on that later.
Second - it pulls like a freaking freight train. There's simply no drop in power anywhere. It will accelerate faster than I am able to shift. The available power from 4K RPM through the entire band to redline is astounding.
Third - the entire solid end suspension parts and the new Ohlins have transformed the car. Now, don't get me wrong - its louder, stiffer, and makes lots of odd noises - and I've basically ruined the streetability of this car - but the feel is best described as "connected." I will know more at the track in 2 weeks.
I'm chasing some random rattles down and other small oddities - but overall - this thing is quite amazing. I'll put a different thread together. (first though - a thread about the instrument cluster)
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