Desirability of a track-modified 996?

Hi everyone, It's been a couple of years since I was active on the forums - unfortunately that's because I haven't been driving my 996 C4S much these days. Since it's been sitting sadly in my garage I'm mulling over selling it. My concern is that since it is a track-modified car, it may not sell well on the general market so I am considering the member-to-member classifieds. My question is I have no idea how to price this car - do track modifications increase or decrease the value? The full list is: 4 point roll bar(professionally installed/welded) 6 point harness for both seats Recaro Profi SPG racing shells stripped interior - everything behind the front seats is gone - carpet, rear seats, etc. Dash/center console/doors & front carpet are still in place Muffler bypass RS engine mounts OZ Allegerita 18'' wheels k&n air filter turbo oil pan w/flaps pagid yellow brake pads - also have factory pads Motul rbf 600 brake fluid Has 50k miles and is in perfect mechanical condition/very good cosmetic condition Just looking to get opinions on whether I should be pricing the car super low compared to the going rate for 02 C4S's or not if I decide to sell. I'd very much like the car to go to someone who will stretch its legs on a track!

To sell as it sits, I think you will have a hard time finding a buyer. People like track cars, but only their own track cars. Too much uncertainty in buying someone else's track toy. If possible, you could return it to stock and go from there. Or maybe you'd like to swap for my '99 C2 and save us both some trouble

If it is a 2004 C4S? you are probably looking at ~ $20- 22k, depending on the spares package..

Thanks for the input guys - It's an '02 C4S. Unfortunately turning it back to stock is not really an option as I'm missing many of the original parts...I wish I could have told my past self to hang on to those!

You are probably looking at 20-30% below market value. The biggest problem is that it's only partially tracked out. I take it that it's stock suspension?

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Did you ever get the V3s on your 99?

Yeah, the problem I see is that it's sort of in between. It's not fully built and it can't easily be put back to stock. dunno, low miles helps but track miles hurts.

your best bet is to ask here if someone want to swap parts for stock. usually track car have a very hard time selling. not that they are bad but buyer usually want to enjoy the car on the street for a while, then the bug bites and they start modding But few people want to buy outright a track ready car. as others are saying you will take a 20% to 30% hit on value.

I might be on the other side of the fence but personally I would rather buy a car that has already had all of the track bits added to it. Sure it does limit your audience a bit but if I'm interested in tracking it the cost of making those upgrades myself almost always surpasses my investment if I were just to purchase someone else's work. Granted I would want it inspected to make sure quality parts were used, installation was performed correctly, and maintenance has been completed but it would be a significant savings going that route. The biggest minus you have going for you is that it's a C4S. Most racers want the lightest and least complicated 911 to put on the track.

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But you won't pay more for them because there is some uncertainty and the mods eliminate the street only portion of the market. My Miata was this way. A bone stock version of my car was probably worth $5500. The suspension, wheels, exhaust, headers, sway bars, brake lines, etc were probably $3000 in parts plus whatever labor would be involved. I bought the car for $4500. That's just the way the market nets this stuff out.

Varun I remember this car.. if I remember correctly you were going lightweight mission. Everything will sell at the right price as you know. If I were you id hit ebay and find at least the carpet, console and rear seats and then sell as is. Fernando, 2 hour job to remove the front drive of these 4Sssss, drop 80 lbs and still can make for a great DE car. ask me how I know . Hope all is well.

I am not a track guy but the car sounds pretty good even for someone who is just using it for the street. A nice roll cage is macho as long as it doesn't have the bars blocking the doors. The seats and belts are fine and probably look good. The back seats are useless anyway. Assuming the car still has ac, a radio, reasonable tires, an IMSB upgrade and would pass a preinspection, I would hope it would easily be worth more than $20 to 25K.

I'll give you 6k as it sits right now, and no I'm not kidding

Any modded car is going to be a loss (worth less than the stock car plus the purchase price of the mods), whether those are track mods, OEM aero components, a bitchin' sound system, etc. The guy who owned my 996 before I did put roughly $20K into upgrades...and I bought it for maybe $6K more than I would have paid for a stock 996. I absolutely bought my car because it was NOT a stock 996 - it was the 996 I wanted to buy more than any Porsche I'd looked at. If the upgrades are tasteful and useful, someone will probably be interested. People often think that racy boudoir photos of their wife/GF are a great idea, but far fewer would want "action shots" of the wife/GF in such a scenario w/ her previous significant other. Similarly, someone might WANT a convincingly track-prepped 996, but only if the car hasn't been beat up at the track. Knowing how many track miles / hours your car has done would be a really useful piece of information. Unsolicited opinion: I have always felt taking taking a modified car back to stock before selling it (or before taking it into the dealership for service) is lame. Motorsport is the most demanding thing you can do to a car; the next owner deserves to know what they're buying. If you would feel guilty if the new owner showed up here someday and realized he'd bought your formerly track-prepped car, you probably shouldn't try to sell it as stock. If you wouldn't feel guilty - well, those MaxAttacks Jake always talks about have to come from somewhere...

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Classy. gl on the sale OP, post some pics for reference. If you get it back to a condition where it's streetable (has carpet, sound proofing) it may fetch decent $$ on BaT. If you can figure out a way to present it as a dual use car I think the market may reward that effort.

Interesting topic. Wouldn't the desirability of a track modified car depend on the level of modification? Clearly a car that's so stiff, high strung, loud, etc. would not be of interest to anyone wanting a street car or even a combo track/street car. However I would think a moderately modified car that works reasonably well on the track yet is not too harsh on the street would be of interest to someone wanting that "in-between" level. I kind of consider my 996 (not for sale, BTW) is just that kind of combo. Complete stock interior with the exception of comp front seats and rear seat removal. Roll bar, 6-pt harness, and a suspension that works reasonably well on the track yet is still quite nice to drive on the street. A few mechanical mods to the engine for reliability, and Fister exhaust so that it at least sounds fast. I would think it would be rather attractive to someone wanting a nice 996 that can pull double duty. I'm not saying one would get their money back out of it (one never does with a race or track car) but I am saying it should still be sell-able to the right buyer for something around or slightly below "non-modified" price. Just MHO.

Personally, I think it's a wash. The track mods kill the deal for a street-car buyer, but someone who wants a track car knows the value of the mods and would be willing to pay a street car value. The main problem is that there are so many fewer buyers of track cars than street cars. You need to niche-market it (through PCA, POC, etc.), and expect the sale to take quite some time. As mentioned above, the quality of the mods will matter, including the age of the belts/harness. No one wants them if they are expired or close to the expiration date. Maybe VitaminC has a good suggestion... swap cars, and then sell his, which will be an easier sell.

If you throw it on craigslist, you'd probably end up with a lot of 10k offers. A friend tried to sell their 996 and constantly got 10-12k offers for a very clean aero. You never mentioned if it's a car that can still be registered and street driven.

Thanks for the replies everyone. Some really great feedback here! The car is street legal, passes smog & is currently registered. It is totally street-drive-able, just that freeways get old due to the road noise. Due to the lightening I've done, the car weighs in at 3110 lbs with a full tank of fuel. I believe that is as light as a 996 GT3. I also feel like apart from the partial interior strip, most of what I've done has been safety related - stock suspension and no engine changes so it would be a great platform for someone to build a full blown race car on, or as a weekend car that also can be used on the track.

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Thanks for the advice! Carpet & console are do-able, but rear seats will be useless as the roll bar is welded in. I suppose that could be de-welded & seats re-installed but I'm guessing that'll cost a pretty penny. How are you enjoying your RWD C4S?

it all comes down to the fact that owner who track their car are 0.0001% of the buyers. Of course on Rennlist you feel like everybody track their car But that is not the case and the car classified section is successful because there a LOT of non reenlisted looking at it. you will see that most Reenlisted are not buying and selling their car very often, and that gives you a sense of the market for modded cars.

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Loving the conversion. Honestly I never wanted an awd 911 but I had to have the widebody you know... Now with the conversion I have the perfect 996 in my opinion. The extra grunt of the 3.8 helps too. Ah welded bar, missed that detail... either way next owner could revert back once track days become less and less. My rear seats came out along with the belts when I installed roll bar, they're quite heavy. I've slowed down on DE events in the last couple years myself. I discovered I really enjoy driving to the mountains and getting lost up there. So many great roads to explore. Good luck with your sale.

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Given how many dorks I see driving around with a tow hook hanging out of the bumper of obviously never-tracked cars (really? A tow hook on your Windstar?) - the roll cage is even more "street cred" than a tow hook. Add a JDM* and a Type-R* badge...guarantee you'll sell that sucker. *If questioned about the JDM sticker, explain that it's got a Boxer engine so it's just like an STi.

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This is basically how I ended up with my car. It's more suited for the track than the road, but I can always convert it back to road use. But, I knew the seller, and I knew how well it had been maintained. If I was a seller, I would convert my track-oriented car back to stock and sell it as a stock road car. Even if you had to buy used stock parts, I think you'd come out well ahead.

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I knew people did the conversion just didn't realize it was that simple. Wow that gives you the best of many worlds as a C4S without the added complexity of the AWD system seems like an attractive option! Agreed but one thing people forget to consider with a track car is that if the owner values his own life and has enough money to properly maintain his car then track cars are often in better shape mechanically than street cars. Street cars follow regular and lengthy maintenance intervals while a track car has to get inspected before every event. So there's more wear and tear but you also know whatever components are on there can handle track stresses. I know when I was tracking my car it was getting preventative maintenance a lot more often than it does now that I've slowed down on events. Hopefully now that my little one is getting older I can get back to it! I shake my head when I read the ads in Panorama and other magazines listing, "GT3 - never tracked!" Now don't get me wrong there was a time when I first got into Porsches that I would baby my car and think of it as a snowflake in the desert that needed to be pampered and can only be taken out for special occasions. Now to me it is a vehicle that serves many purposes and will wear some scars accordingly. But we all buy them for different reasons. And I'm glad my previous owners kept really good care of mine while it was waiting for me.

^^My miata is the best maintained car I've ever owned. Not even close.

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Same with my POS Boxste'. Just replaced the water pump and thermostat and got all 4 new tires this week. 4th set this year. When a street cars craps out, it's a PITA to get a tow home and then get it fixed. When a track car craps out, the event is dead, you lose season points, and you are stuck out in the middle of nowhere (if didn't trailer the car to the event).

I think it really depends on how much you have recorded and less on the condition of the car. Do you have full records, receipts, spreadsheets, etc? I'd give up on going back if you don't have the parts. You'll spend another a few grand that you'll only see a % on at resale. It sounds like a great DE car (i'm kind of a big fan of the 4S) and there are always plenty of people looking around for something thats turn key at the right price. I'd be curious going the other direction in finding what SCCA/NASA classes it might qualify in and adding that to the listing.

That's great idea actually. I don't mind it sitting on the market for awhile as I'm in no rush, but appealing to a wider audience will certainly help.