General 996 advice & opinions wanted

Hello all! I just popped over from the 928 forum to get your informed opinions. Obviously, most people here are 996 fans, but I'd like to hear your general opinions on the model's depreciation/appreciation, future collectability, dependability, and ease of maintenance both today & into the future. I have older cars, but would like to have a newer model that's a nice weekend cruiser, with modern comforts and drivability. I want to turn the key, have AC that works well, cruise, modern stereo, etc.. What also appeals to me is a car that's underappreciated and at the bottom of the depreciation curve, and getting the most bang-for-the-buck. I kinda like driving a car for a decade for free. (Just sold a Jeep under those circumstances) I know the 996 took a lot of criticism for the headlight styling, but that doesn't bother me. The IMF bearing issue, while that is a legit concern, appears to be overblown and correctable, and once that's done, it seems that the car is as solid & dependable as any other model. I've been busy reading the threads here, learning about the issues, but I'm still a newbie. Dismissing the turbos (which I like, but want to avoid for sake of simplicity), what year & configuration should I be looking at considering the above criteria? Coupe, cabriolet, stick or auto, 4S or standard? It seems that convertibles are cheaper than coupes for some reason, as well as automatics; am I correct in this? What's the most solid car that you'd expect to see increase in value over the next 10 years? Obviously I have some personal preferences, which I also think are best for values, which are unusual colors, leather & upgraded trim, etc., and unmodified cars that are 100% stock. If a guy bought a clean, relatively low mileage car for occasional weekend driving, with the intention of keeping it 5-10 years, what kind of experience would you expect? I did the same thing with an '85 930 about 15 years ago (keeping it for about 10 years) and had minimal upkeep and maximum appreciation. I don't expect the 996 to skyrocket in value like the 930 did, but right now, it DOES seem to be the red-headed step child of the 911 family.

Wow... There's a lot to digest. I agree the 996 is the redheaded stepchild but it's still a damm fun car. I'll risk giving my opinion: Yes, IMSB overblown, just replace it (especially if you buy a low mile car) 996's seem to still be at the bottom of the depreciation curve It seems like it's hard to find ones that don't need a lot of other work, it might be difficult to find that one that you can keep 5 - 10 years without a lot of work If your goal is to collect, I think it is hard to find cheap ones that have not already been modified or abused (it's like most of those gentle owners have already sold them, IMO), you might have to pay closer to the top end for a good example If you want the better IMS, 99-01 seem to be better engine years, if you want the updated headlights go 02 or later I have a Cabriolet, and if you like the idea of cruising in a convertible go that way, if you want something to do DE or track get a coupe, the convertibles have more stuff that can go wrong for sure I went C2 because I wanted liquid cooled but still RWD analog feel (no-PSM for me either), I would suspect that the C2's might perform better in the market once they eventually start to appreciate because some people call them the last analog 911's (debatable) Look for the triangle steering wheel over the rectangular one There are exceptions, but most of the 996's I see in the common market need a lot of love. You have 15 - 20 year old control arms and lots of other parts that don't necessarily age well, regardless of mileage. If you are going to drive it gently it might not matter. I suppose eventually there will be some 996 lovers and we'll see appriciation but I'm not counting on it. My goals with the 996 were different, I wanted a car I could work on myself and drive the **** out of being comfortable that something would eventually break. Given my very different goal from yours, take my opinions with a grain of salt. Good luck!

I have a 2001 C2 Cab. I would go with a coupe for future value. Won't ever appreciate like the air cooled. Coupe is stiffer, lighter, less complex, and has less rattles etc. Find a nice one that has been babied all its life. The plastic on mine has turned brittle and breaks. Mostly small stuff, but annoying. My car came from TX and lived most of its life in S. CA. Think the heat is what has caused the issues. Other sources of problems are RMS, trans input shaft seal, IMS seal which can all cause annoying oil leaks that are cheap parts to fix, but expensive fixes due to difficulty of getting to the repairs. Sagging motor mounts and worn trans mount are other common areas but simple DIY fixes. Fun cars with decent performance even by today's standards and a bargain. Timing chains in these motors too. No annoying belts that need maintenance every 15k miles.

If you want a 996 that's going to appreciate in value get a GT3 or a Turbo. IMO those have more appreciation potential over time, especially the GT3. That said the GT3 entry price there is 3-4x a decent M96 996. Turbos can be had for a bit more than a nice NA 996 but not off the charts yet.

It sounds like you've done quite a bit of research and have a good grasp on what you want. Others have said the 996 won't appreciate, but that's necessarily true. At the worst, I think your assumption of driving it and selling it for what you paid (or close) is reasonable. Keep in mind that naturally aspirated, and manual, 911s are becoming a thing of the past. Cabs and Tips tend to sell for less - that applies to both purchase and resale though. The 996 is the first modern 911 and after 2 years of ownership I can say it has been an absolute blast to own and drive. Maintenance has been minimal (but expensive) and it has proven to be extremely reliable. 4S seems to be in pretty high demand. Anniversary editions are sought after and limited (plus they had more power). Also the 996.1 aero cars are just beautiful and tend to command a bit of a premium. All in all, I don't think there is a bad choice when it comes to the 996 lineup.

Unfortunately, I don't think many would characterize the 996 as max appreciation and minimal upkeep. These cars are in that period where things start to be replaced just from age alone (hoses, belts, tanks, pumps, suspension, mounts, belts, pulleys, emissions, electrical etc). Much of this is moderate cost if you DIY. This wouldn't be so bad if all this was nicely spaced out, but sometime when it rains it pours. Also, I think catastrophic or heavy repairs are over-represented here, but those risks are real - bore scoring, intermix, etc. I think you don't buy a 996 unless you are ok with walking away with getting paid for a roller at the end of the day - sounds grim, but the risk is there. Appreciation potential for these cars is questionable at best I think - the headlights, the concerns about the IMS, and the high volume all work against appreciation. As mentioned, your best bet is a 6MT coupe - aero packages, 4S, anniversary editions, turbos command a premium. The turbos are more complicated, but anecdotally, these engines are more stout and are not prone to a lot of the issues plaguing the M96. If you're looking for cheap entry into a very fun car with some of the 911 cache, I think the 996 is a great choice. If appreciation and low upkeep are important, it's a gamble at best.

29, 39 or is it 49 modes of failure now? Learn em all and good luck with your decision!

Quotes source post: 15139143

This is all wrong - the Turbo engine is a better design than the M96 and the Turbo/GT2/GT3 are more likely to appreciate in the future. Everything else about the car is essentially the same level of complexity. If you can budget for a Turbo you will be very happy. There's one for sale now in the classifieds for 29k, with 177k miles, and if I didn't have one already I'd be all over it.

I agree - if you can afford a turbo, get that instead. A much better engine that would offset the added complexity of the turbos, which do sometimes have problems, although rare too. The 996 is simple, reliable, easy to work on. Very daily drivable. If you want to do anything from a collectibility standpoint, you have to go for low miles and rare (options) as possible because these cars aren�t really collectible. That said, I thought the same thing back in 2005 when I bought my 3.2 Carrera and the 996 was the current model, so anything CAN happen to cause these cars to go up. But don�t be surprised if it doesn�t appreciate in 10 years. It could take 20 depending on what the 997 and 991 cars do. However, it almost certainly won�t depreciate either. So you will have the same situation as your Jeep if you get lucky.

Sadly, that's a myth. I don't see the 996s appreciating at all. Maybe in another 20-30 years for a select few, but the automotive landscape will be so different by then that you may find it both costly and in some case outright prohibited areas to drive an internal combustion engine. That's not going to improve their value. The best chance of finding something likely to rise in value will be something very rare and that means expensive. The Turbos and GT cars stand a chance, but the rest of the 996s are simply too many in numbers. You should really look for a GT2, but that will cost you as much as a mid-size house and the right house stands a better chance on return of investment than any 996. You are far, far better socking your money into a reputable mutual fund than anything with wheels. Yes, a few players make money flipping cars, but they tend to have deep pockets from the start and are prepared to drop expendable cash that us regular folks don't have. That being said, a 996 (or even an early Boxster) are a relatively easy way to get into the club. But chances are you are going to be pouring money into the vehicle. Any car with 10 to 15+ years under its belt is going to be breaking. Don't forget to budget for normal expenses like oil, gas, tires, brakes, and fluids. Oh, and there is the cost of storage, insurance, and registration. When you add in those expenses, your "investment" doesn't look so good.

I'm far from an expert, but I do have an opinion(like everyone!). Not sure I would invest in any car in an attempt to make money on it in 5-10 years, particularly a "modern" car. I put my investment dollars in traditional investment options. Now concerning the 996, in my opinion they are a great car, offer outstanding performance and appearance for a reasonable price. I bought my 2005 996 C4S in 2014 without knowing a darn thing about them. I think the C4S is the best looking and do command a higher price. I'm an old guy so don't much of my own DIY beyond oil and filter, motor mounts and other minor items. They are easy to work on but as mentioned above can be a pain in the a-- to access certain things. I just don't enjoy laying under a car and skinning my knuckles that much anymore. If you are looking for a weekend driver that will make you smile I can recommend the 996. Decide which one you like best and go find it. Plenty of examples out there. Prices may sag as Fall gets closer depending on area of country. Good luck with your decision and possible search.

I took a little bit of a different path when I looked for mine. I wanted a car that was relatively solid, but lower on the cost curve. After about 6 month of learning and looking, I bought a 99 C2. I had an honest seller who told me about most of the little issues with my particular car. Buying one of these, especially from a dealer who typically knows little of the cars history, is a crap shoot. It appears that I got a good one. I have no illusion about these cars going up in value. As battery technology improves, electric cars with a range of 300 or more miles will become common. Recharge times will decrease too. We are nearing the end of the era of gasoline powered cars. One thing that has been on my bucket list for a long time is to drive a car on the track, but not necessarily in competitive racing. I anteed up and joined a club at Road Atlanta where it will have to opportunity to get out on the track about once a month. My car, with a few modifications (deep oil sump and 3rd radiator included), will be perfect for what I want to do.

* bought my 996 (02 cab tip) to use/drive/enjoy (future resale value was NOT factored in my purchase decision for same reasons already discussed in earlier posts). * 02: for reasons detailed here https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...breakdown.html * CAB: live in SoCal and can/have/will drive year round with top down. * TIP: wife and daughters do not drive stick.

Quotes source post: 15140081

Yep, after you put that baby on the track, you will be like, wow, this is not a slow vehicle. I cannot believe Porsche claims 174mph for my stock 99 C2. Totally worth the learning experience and fun factor. Edit: I have a good one too. 18 months of ownership and did virtually nothing but fix two issues: rear window regulator, and frunk latch/lock mechanism. 59k miles now and feels solid and clean.

It's a Porsche 911 that you can purchase all day long for $17k or less. And a pretty good example at that. What more is there to say? 4S is the best choice for future desirability but none of them are that desirable at this time. You would need to spend at least double and triple what a 996 costs to get any other type of 911 (younger or older). Good luck with your search. Porsche people know the differences but "regular" people react to my car the same way they would a brand new Porsche.

Quotes source post: 15139982

I'm with you Marv. I don't see this generation or anything after being an investment or collectible, except for a few prime examples. Never buy a car as an investment. That's the first thing you need to know and understand. Get it because you want it and will drive it. Porsches are not meant to be coffee tables or trophies to put on a shelf. Second, never add up all the receipts. Buy as good an example as you can afford and set aside 6-8k for a thorough PPI and then follow up with preventative maintenance. The idea being that you can rule out an IMS problem or scored bores as much as is possible from the get go and have a car you can drive and enjoy with nothing more than regular maintenance. That said, I have a 99 Boxster I've used for product development for over a decade. I've stuffed it into the wall at Road America, blown up development engines, re-painted the car twice, replaced the roof, I'm on my 2nd gearbox and 5th or 6th engine (not because of failures every time, but rather because I want to try something new or go bigger). The car can out accelerate a 991 GT3 from a rolling start. The question I ask people is this. How much will you have to spend to buy a new Porsche that you will enjoy as much as the one you have now, even if you have to put a new engine in it? In the long run, if well maintained, it will always be money in the bank to keep and preserve what you have versus buying new every time.

I�m the oddball here in complete disagreement on the appreciation matter. Not every 996 will appreciate, but anything low mile 6 speed coupe in great shape will...they already are and it sounds like that is what you are looking for. Sure, C4S, aero, targa 😱, anniversary models, etc will lead the way. The reasoning is very simple, two fold, and alluded to in your desire for a 996. These are the first cars that were �modern� and the last cars that delivered the driving experience without computer nannies. Because they were far more modern and livable, more of them were daily driven. Because more of them were daily driven, more of them have ended up in the junk yard, or at the very least, no longer are in great shape. I truly believe this will negate the negligible production increases over 964�s, 993�s, etc. Those models had shorter production runs as well, but my guess is a vast majority are still on the road. The �old guard� air cooled guys are approaching an average age of around 90. Folks like me (30�s-40�s) don�t care if the car is air or water cooled, it�s a 911! My generation is going to scoff at the �hybrid electric self-driving 911� and �Let your Porsche show you what it�s like to win at LeMans, without ever touching the steering wheel� ...what�s the point? When you see those terms in Porsche advertisements, look for an immediate spike in 996-997 values. That being said, will we ever see a $100,000 99� base C2 coupe? Probably not anytime soon. I�m suggesting that these cars will appreciate just enough that if you kept the car for 10 years (from today), you might cover what you spent to enjoy the car and walk away with ten years of memories for �free�. I�m with Charles in that no car is an investment, but if you pick the right car and have a bit of luck, you could own one of the world�s greatest cars for next to nothing.

I always loved 911’s but didn’t feel I could afford to operate it and keep it maintained. For the better part of two years, I researched and drove M3, M5, CTS-V and AMG 63. I concluded nothing touched the 996 for driving. Getting smarter about the car helps. Men like Baz and Charles and Jake and Pedro know these cars better than anyone. They made a believer out of me. Due diligence is absolutely essential and knowledge is everything. Find the best car for your money and be very, very sure of your decision so remorse doesn’t dim the joy you’ll have keeping the car just right while driving it like you stole it. The car is basically ready for a DE out of the box, or should be. We have numerous resources on-line. If I had the space to drop the engine, my indie would barely get to touch my car. Parts are reasonable if you search properly. Truth is, my late-model XC90 is as expensive to maintain (engine drop labor not included with that cost analysis).

I agree, never buy a car as an investment. I got lucky with my Mcoupe and got exactly what I paid for it twelve years later. I just bought a convertible that I hope to drive most of it’s useful life ( 150,000 miles) then get maybe 5-7 k for it from someone else with the itch for a great car. I’m sure I’ll spend at least 15-20 Grand in that time fixing and maintaining it , and I’ll enjoy the experince more for just driving it. True collector cars don’t get used, and need to be perfect cosmetically. Not worth it in my opinion.

I've owned my 2002 cab for almost 3 yrs now and it shows 71K miles on the OD. I bought it from my son-in-law (who lives 15 minutes away) who bought it new. All I can say is this car puts a huge smile on my face every time I even THINK about driving it! I live in a place where almost every day of the year is top-down weather, so I'd never consider any 996 that wasn't a cab. The 6-Speed manual in my car is pure joy, but would not be my choice if I had a heavy traffic commute to face (I'm retired and can do my driving in traffic free hours). The car is quick at around 5 sec for 0 to 60 and has good torque. As an ex-USAF fighter pilot, I'd like more power... a LOT more power, but the 320bhp in my car is certainly more than adequate. That said, my car is a boat anchor compared to my son-in-law's dual motored TESLA that clips off 0 to 60 in about 2.5 seconds. Repairs ARE expensive since I don't do my own work. A faulty door locking system that set off an alarm beeping noise cost me $840 to get fixed last week. Since I don't track the car or drive at excessive speeds, I'm more than happy with the two wheel drive of my car. But put it all together and I'd say if I had to sell it tomorrow as a roller, I got more than my money's worth of enjoyment out of the car! But if money is tight and repairs have to be minimized, I'd look for something else. Like airplanes and most other mechanical devices that are designed to run, most problems come up when you don't use them. "Lot rot" will raise your repair costs for sure. If you get one, DRIVE IT as much as you can.

Parts on these cars are aging and all rubber or plastic parts need to be changed if not already done. Gets expensive real fast even if you do your own work!

Coming from a 1978 928, I bet you'll find that a solid example of a 996 is going to be refined and reliable. It's all perspective.

Quotes source post: 15145488

I don�t know about all rubber or plastic parts. Doing that might cost more than the entire car, lol

Hello All, I purchased my Artic Silver 2004 996 C4S with 134k on the clock for 17K. It is the cabriolet model with PSE and I drive it like I stole it. I have so far purchased a non-color matching hardtop for a bargain and do not care for the two tone top. It does need some TLC which I will have fixed by End of year. Going to overhaul the suspension components with a mixture of Powerflex front and rear sway bar bushings, TRW drop links, new control arms, powerflex bushings for the remaining control links, rears etc. Going to drive it like a stole it with the police chasing me this time. Do I care about the investment aspect of it? Yes, I do. One cannot put a price on fun.

No more than any other issue: "You get what you pay for!", then when it comes to purchasing a 996. These are 15 year old sports cars. I love the ads that say, never tracked or never driven hard. Are you kidding me, a Porsche 15 years old and never driven hard.... Purchasing a car that may have been used for occasional DE, is "generally" not a negative. People who track thier 996s, generally have a strong maintenance program, not to mention PCA tech inspections required. The worst thing you could buy is a garage queen, ie., 15,000 miles on a 15 year old 996. Walk away from anything like that. Look for real documented miles and concurrent maintenance. Just my $.02 My purchase in 2013 for a 2003 996, carfax had 5 full pages of documented inspections and all maintenance done at Porsche dealer, from brake and coolant flushes to wipers. I paid the long dollar for the car, but have no regrets. PS, I wasted several hundred dollars on PPIs for cars that were less money.

Quotes source post: 15145874

Might> Lol, it will! Have you checked your control arms lately, ball joints, drop links. motor, mounts, etc?

^^ Yes. For some reason, the rubber on my car is still in good shape? Maybe the previous owner had a climate controlled garage?

As 996s have now entered the "affordable" price ranges, many prospective buyers are tempted to jump into the water...without any Porsche experience to guide them. Over the course of some 35 years, I'm now enjoying my 4th 911 (a '99 996 cab 6 speed), here's my best advice to prospective buyers: >Focus on examples with extensive maintenance records...insist on paperwork! >Buy from a knowledgeable seller...there are many in PCA circles. >Lean toward "over maintaining" your Porsche. Such costs will be returned via day-to-day reliability and when you eventually sell the car. >Locate a local indy Porsche repair shop. Go talk with them BEFORE you buy one. Then consider them for performing a PPI on examples you're honestly considering for purchase. Free advice...take it. relinuca