Shopping for 996

I really appreciate the great advice I've been given here in the past few weeks. As I search for the 996 that fits my budget, I hope it's okay to share what I find and ask you guys what you think. I found this one on CarGurus. Located in Concord, CA Although I would prefer to purchase from a private owner, this one is at a used car dealer. 1999 Carrera Cab with removable hard top. 92k miles. Asking price $16,495 No documentation other than Carfax. One owner, prior to current dealer. I've shared the carfax below. Any red flags or anything that stands out and warrants extra caution? If not, any suggestions for a PPI near Concord, CA? Dealer agreed to take it to a nearby Porsche professional of my choosing. Thanks as always https://www.carfax.com/VehicleHistory/p/Report.cfx?vin=WP0CA2995XS654353&partner=AMG_1

Gut reaction is that it is above average price for a 92K car. Of course my perspective is from the Northeast, West Coast may be different but I would think $12 to $14 would be the range. You don't list options other than the hardtop but if you post the options codes you would likely get help in factoring those into it. If you can find out who the previous owner is you could get a lot more information that may justify the price. In Maine dealers are required to disclose the prior owner if asked. Could this be the IMS bearing?: 06/10/2000 12,297 Service FacilityRear crankshaft oil seal replaced Transmission removed and reinstalled

[QUOTE=MEMike;15295740 Could this be the IMS bearing?: 06/10/2000 12,297 Service FacilityRear crankshaft oil seal replaced Transmission removed and reinstalled[/QUOTE] Sounds like the Rear Main Seal (RMS).

Not sure how to get option codes. Typical of used car dealers, they picked the car up at auction, and really have no background on the car. One thing I found interesting is the car initially failed emissions, then passed, then was sold less than 1,000 miles later. Folks here put me at ease about higher mileage 996s, especially since I don't have a ton of money to spend. Perhaps if this were a private seller the price would be around 14k. There is a 1999 coupe in So Cal. Asking price is 14.5k, but it has 150k miles on it. Also not known if IMS has been address. It's very clean looking, but the mileage scares me.

Option codes are listed on a white paper sticker on the underside of the hood, and also potentially on the same sticker placed in the front of one of the manuals. You can decode these three letter codes using this site, and others with a quick Google search.

Quotes source post: 15296114

The option codes are on a sticker under the front hood.(Oops cds72911 beat me to it...am I THAT long winded?!?) Sometimes dealers will take a photo of the sticker. I've seen failed emissions when a car has had recent work, like a new battery added so they can sell the car, and they don't drive the car enough in order to have all the emissions tests stored in the DME(ECU) to complete. The place doing the test will fail the car, have them drive it some more (50 miles or so) and then bring it back in order to be passed. High mileage car wouldn't necessarily scare me off. If it has been maintained and treated well, then I would be fine with a 100K+ car. I bought my Durametric cable before I bought my 996, because I wanted to check the DME for over revs, camshaft deviation, and possible mileage rollbacks. One dealer let me take a car (2001 996TT) for a weekend. It took me a couple of hours to look over/under the car, hook up the Durametric and to return it. It had been treated very roughly. Several overrevs(last one within the last 2 hours) and lots instances of hitting the rev limit. It also had several leaks, a ticking on one side of the engine, and lots of wear inside and out. It had DOT slicks which I would have had to replace in order to DD it.. IMHO, this one had been a dedicated track car, although the sales person told me he could "tell when a car had been tracked" and that this one had "never been tracked, it's been babied." Ha! I was looking for a DD, not a track car. It had 125K and they were asking $39K in August 2017. My budget was $38K, but I figured I could talk them down to that, but passed on it and I'm glad I did. The car I finally bought (In my signature) had never been over-reved, and only once hit the rev limit. It had been babied and had receipts for repair bills. It also had some nice mods. (Fabspeed exhaust, clear bra, Aerokit front bumper, IMS Solution, modern Kenwood radio, etc) It had 53K and I got it for $20K in Sept 2017. It was half my budget, which meant I could afford to do whatever mods I wanted. I'm really glad I got it instead of the TT. I basically did my own PPI, but I had the tools to do it. I would have dropped the sump on mine, except for the fact that it already had the IMS Solution installed and everything else had checked out fine. I would have paid to get a "proper PPI" if it had not been close to me. The way to find a good deal, is be patient, but be ready to buy immediately. I looked for 6-8 months and let a couple of deals get away from me. When I found the one I wanted, I had cash ready the next day.

Leave yourself some reserve funds (you'll need it) at least $3-5K

Failed emmissions isn't a big deal. A lot of times it's a readiness code or the SAI system needs looked at. Doesn't mean it's a bad car.

I'm learning that due diligence is absolutely required with these (or any for that matter) cars. I just checked a VIN for a 2000 996 being sold on Ebay with 26k miles, and the LN website says the retrofit was installed (on a1999) at 69k miles. Go figure

Based on my 6 days of experience of owning a 996, I would (mostly) ignore any mention of failed emission test. For the one I just bought to get through the PPI, the former owner had to put a new battery in it. It was driven a few miles by my mechanic for the PPI and then 13 miles back to the car broker. Georgia now has a new stupid law that says you can't even get a temp tag for a used vehicle until the new owner takes for an emission test. I had a DUH moment and happily drove up the street got the emission test and promptly failed. I know that unhooking a battery clears codes and makes your car fail emissions because my G-35 is finicky about having the battery unhooked too. I then drove it around for a couple of days and checked the readiness with my OBD reader. It still had 3 not ready indications (Georgia only allows 1 on a 2003). So then today I drove for 15 minutes up GA 400, not exceeding 60 MPH nor 3500 RPM. If you live in Atlanta, you know how fun that wasn't--I'm sure the 500 people who passed me said "who's that idiot driving a Porsche on the North Atlanta Autobahn so freaking slow"). I checked again and only the catalyst wasn't ready. I hauled back down 400 to Alpharetta and when I got it checked, even the catalyst was ready. I say "mostly" because you might consider that a failed emission indicates that the battery was likely dead at some point recently before the test. Then you could ask why the battery was dead--I'm guessing on Porsches it's usually caused by not driving it. Other possibilities: bad alternator, leaving lights on, old battery, etc.

The dealer sent me a photo of the option code sticker. I'm going to do some research on this.

Start here: https://www.stuttcars.com/technical/option-codes/

Quotes source post: 15300337

Lots of options, including limited slip!

I'm just saying hi because you're from Henderson. Let's get you the right 996 so we can start a Henderson 996 gang. Don't be scared of high miles with these cars. Even a low mile 996 can have a bad inspection. These cars like to be driven.

220, 222, 224, sport options, and sport brakes. Pretty tasty.

Quotes source post: 15301221

Howdy Neighbor! Thanks for the shout out! When I find my ride, I'm in!

I'm still considering the car I mentioned in the original post. A 1999 Cab with 92k miles. So I called the shop that did the majority of the work listed on the Carfax report. he confirmed that he had maintained the car for the original owner. He said said that for the price ($16k) he would consider it a good car for someone. He also cautioned that should I pursue buying it, that IMS bearing replacement should be done. I've read that the dual row bearings in the 1999's had a much lower failure rate. Seeing as how it has made it to 92k miles without failure, is there reason to carry that gut wrenching concern that the motor will blow-up at any time? I may have a PPI done early next week. The cost is $375. The shop told me that "Regarding The IMS Bearing, We Would Not Be Able To See The Bearing Without Transaxle Removal But We Can Check The Camshaft Deviation Using The OBD2 Information." Also, "We Don’t Take The Sump Plate Off But Can Remove The Existing Engine Oil Filter And Check It For Metallic Debris, For The Additional Cost Of $26.12 For The Oil Filter It Is Worth Doing." Is there anything other than the %^$# IMS that I should make certain they check?

Blackstone oil analysis. Rear engine mounts sagging. All segments of the HVAC control display working. Cleaned radiators/condensers. Starter/alt Y cable replace history. Ign module repl history. Water pump repl history. AOS repl history. If none of these are mentioned, you'll be doing them all within the next three years IMNSHO - The IMS bearing is a 100% failure rate when compared to the rest of the engine, including wear components. Yes, the dual row has a better rate, but rates are only important for someone doing statistical analysis. When your bearing goes, it will destroy the engine unless you are super lucky. It is a faulty design, and a faulty implementation. I counsel anyone getting an M96 engine to budget for a new IMS bearing no matter the year or mileage. At the mileage, it's likely the clutch is not long for this world either. Walk in with $13k and haggle hard. Tell them you are staring a $6500 service bill in the face for IMSB, clutch, RMS, AOS, TO bearing, motor mounts, Y cable, Ign switch, and water pump, coolant and T-stat. Plus maybe rad and condenser cleaning. If the oil check comes back ok, buy it and either DIY or take it to your fave shop and let them sort it. If it motors your boat, and it's what you want - grab it up.

Quotes source post: 15310230

sounds like the shop knows what they're doing. Good luck!

FYI and as a point of reference I paid $14.8k for a 102.4k miles 2000 996 cab single owner with similar clean Carfax but no actual paperwork in March 2017. Coincidentally I bought mine from Concord as well! My dual row IMS bearing was full of oil but not failing when I removed it and put an LN bearing in its place. I skipped the ppi and the car has been great so far, even did a 2320 Mile road trip in it this year. Good luck!

Spoke with Eric at Pacific Power Motorsports. Very nice guy. Sounds like he knows his business. I Scheduled my first PPI for Wednesday. We'll see how it goes.

Quotes source post: 15311248

Just kidding, I also skipped the PPI as well. But I had my own Durametric Pro cable that I was able to look at camshaft deviation, over-revs, mileage, and I looked it over real well. I also took an oil sample for a UOA, but ended up buying the car before I got the results. I was satisfied with the long time owners candor, and he really had taken great care of it. He shipped it to FSI for the IMS Solution, because he "wanted it done correctly." FSI had also replaced the clutch, AOS, and water pump. He had recently replaced the plastic coolant lines from front to rear and the coolant reservoir. He told me about the noisy suspension issue, which ended up being a coffin arm which only costs me $68 to fix myself. The cracked windshield was obvious. I had to replace the headlight switch, and install a GBox to fix a 2nd gear pop-out. I spent less than $1500 on maintenance and repairs this last year. (Sept 20th was one year) Tires tomorrow will be the first repair of year 2. But last week my passenger regulator started making noise, so that will be the second repair of year 2.

Good luck with the PPI. Just out of curiosity, have you driven a 996 cab? It's not for everyone. It's a good deal of interior noise with top up...even with the hard top. Also, take a good look at the cab with the hardtop on, it's not going to look as good as the coupe...IMO, it doesn't look as good as the rag top either. The only reason I keep mine around is for resale value lol. Don't get me wrong, when that top comes down...everything is right with the world. That being said, you'll want to pay extra attention to that rag top. Does it look like it'll need replacing for any reason? Are there any noises when the rear windows go up or down? Rear window regulators are pricey. Inspecting the filter element is requisite, have him send you pics. Have him send you a cold start video while he's at it - phone should be pointed at the rear of the car. Any smoke? Any tapping? DME hook up for stored codes and errors is easy enough. Ask him if there are rattles over bumps - might be signs of needing suspension bits. If it's on original shocks, those will probably need to be replaced. I wouldn't worry about the emissions fail on these cars. If it ended up passing, it probably just needed some more miles to get through the emissions readiness procedure. Google 911 emissions readiness - the 993 procedure will likely show up. The 996 isn't as exacting, but you'll have to duplicate most if not all aspects of it...just not so specifically. You'll probably need to know it if you disconnect the battery at some point. Good luck.

Thank you for the advice. I'll ask the shop to check the items you mentioned. I'm a rookie when it comes to these cars. I haven't driven a 911 cab, but I did have the opportunity too drive a Boxster from the same era for a while. I've driven Jeeps for the majority of my adult life, so I'm kind of used to cabin noise. The thing I do remember about the Boxster was the amount of squeaks and rattles while driving. Don't know if that was isolated to that particular vehicle. I owned a Mercedes SLK hardtop convertible for a few a few years, and that car was tight as a drum when the top was buttoned up. When I decided to pursue a weekend driver, I considered two vehicles. An older Mercedes SL or a Porsche 996. I know they are two different animals, but having the option to drop the top is very appealing to me. Especially living in Southern Nevada where we have 300 days of sunshine per year. I was told that the top is in "like new" condition, but that is a salesman talking. A couple of photos of the car I'm having inspected. 1999 996 Cab 1999 996 Cab

PUMPKINS! Nice

"We Would Not Be Able To See The Bearing Without Transaxle Removal But We Can Check The Camshaft Deviation Using The OBD2 Information." This is correct, but not helpful per se'. The IMSB would have to be failing badly to affect the camshaft deviation angles - you'd probably hear it long before the deviation would tell you anything, and there'd be a bunch of metal in the oil. Much more likely they'd (deviations) be affected by worn tensioner pads. If indeed it's the original engine (i.e. M96-01) it has a dual row bearing. Check to see it's the original motor. Also, if you can get the service records from the shop you can probably put together a pretty good picture of what's gone on with the car...

I drove a Merc E350 cab once - the fitment, finish, and sound insulation were amazing. Yeah, the 996 cab is nothing like that haha. It will have squeaks, whistles, and lets in a lot of ambient noise - though some squeaks can be mitigated by applying silicone oil at contact areas. Have your PPI guy opine on the condition of the top. Wrinkles on cab top on either side of the rear window are common place, so don't worry if you see those - If you plan on keeping the hardtop on, these may get more pronounced. BTW, hard top removal/replacement is a 2 person job unless you rig some kind of apparatus in your garage. It's not so much the absolute weight, but the unwieldy shape and weight distribution. If you've been in Henderson a while, you're probably use to the heat. For me, hot weather makes the cab as miserable if not more than cold weather. Your realistic tolerance to heat should be factored into the decision. I've never seen unpainted rear bumper guards before - a little paint there would make it a bit cleaner. The earlier comment was right, the exhaust tip looks low - probably needs new engine mounts (easy DIY).

Have the sump dropped and inspected. I personally would get the solution installed and forget about it forever!

Quotes source post: 15316410

+1 on dropping the sump +1 on the IMS Solution.

Just dropping this here https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...1-carrera-4-9/

Quotes source post: 15317218

Is this the dealer/seller JR always recommends?

Jake recommends Stonegate Auto Sales. Given the inventory on Stonegate's page and the RareUnique's BAT profile, it looks to be the same. It's not explicitly stated, but how many places in Cleveland are selling vintage Porsche tractors and Unimog type verhicles alongside 996s with rebuilt engines? https://www.stonegateautosales.com/c...entory_1.shtml https://bringatrailer.com/member/rareunique/

Oh well. I thought I had a PPI being done today. I called and made the apporintment for the dealer to bring the car to the shop for the inspection and somewhere between the shop and the dealer, there was a loss of communication, and so it goes. I called the shop (as did the dealer) a number of times, left multiple voicemails and emails with no response. So, being over 500 miles away, there is little I can do. I'm SOL on this one. Perhaps I should take this as an omen.

Have you looked at the BAT auction, it's at 12K with one day to go. https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...1-carrera-4-9/

Quotes source post: 15321732

I will keep my eye on that. Thank you. I guess these BAT auctions don't allow for a PPI. Kind of a gamble if you win (like Ebay). I don't know what happened with Pacific Power Motorsports. Eric was very nice and helpful. I made the appointment, agreed to the price of the PPI, and once the dealer tried to contact them to drop the car off, communication ceased. I called (multiple times) and emailed (multiple times) with no response. Needless to say I'm left scratching my head wondering WTF?.

Rennsport Reunion in his backyard?

email me, if your budget is $30+k [email removed] GLTU! marcus

Quotes source post: 15322560

I would be inclined to take that gamble with a brand new RND engine fitted with a LN double row bearing and nikasil cylinder sleeves among other things - this was done at a cost of $18K (invoice is pictured). Basically all your modes of engine failure are addressed. It doesn't get much better. I think you will kick yourself if this goes in your price range.

Quotes source post: 15322764

A brand new RND engine would definitely be a big selling point to me.

Quotes source post: 15318792

We never endorse anyone, or anything! We stay completely away from selling or buying Porsche cars. Stonegate auto sales is ran by local guys who we have known for years. They are a solid company, and they do business honorably in our experiences with them.If someone wants to sell a broken Porsche, we will connect them with Stonegate. At times we have fitted our engines to some of these cars for Stonegate, but the vehicle that�s on BAT now is not one that we�ve worked with. Our schedule has been too booked over the last couple of years to work with them. We stick to our specialty of developing products, procedures and building engines, and don�t let anything complicate this. Selling used Porsches isn�t for us.

Quotes source post: 15322560

Pacific Power Motorsports has been redeemed. They finally got back to me. They had an emergency and were not able to operate for a couple of days. The PPI is back on for the 99 C2 Cab. The car will be delivered to them this afternoon for a Monday AM PPI.

Quotes source post: 15324215

The old "convenient emergency"...What legitimate business that you know of, just stops answering calls for a few day? No voice message? No answering service? Hmmm... Proceed with caution, and trust your gut. I'm not saying it absolutely can't happen, but what are the chances?

Quotes source post: 15324234

They seem to have a solid reputation. Actually suggested for PPI by Rennlist member. One of the partners called to explain that the managing partner had a medical emergency, and they fell behind. He was apologetic and sounded sincere. He promised that they would do a complete and thorough PPI for me. I'm not local to them so I kind of have to trust them on their word. Hopefully everything goes smoothly.

Oh wow, the car sold for $17K. OP, I'm not sure what turned you off about the BAT auction. I thought you'd be all over it as their both Mark I's in a similar color that come with removable hardtops. I hope the one in Concord turns out to be a gem. As it is, I think the one in Concord will end up costing you more money all in (IMSB, RMS, etc etc) and still won't have some of the nice things like the nickies. If anything, you should point out this auction as negotiating tool. FSI - sorry for the presumption, thanks for clarifying.

Quotes source post: 15324562

It seemed like a good car. The paint did look like a mismatch (in the photos anyway). I guess I am a bit leery of purchasing through an auction site. You wouldn't have the opportunity to inspect before committing to purchase. This being my first Porsche purchase, and taking into account the issues the 996 is known for, I'm trying to be extra cautious.

I hear you. I love the car, but let me tell you about issues the 996 is known for, it's the engine lol. IMSB, bore scoring, water pump, aos, cam pads, timing chain, coolant tank, ignition coils, alternator, air pump, engine mounts, etc etc. Some of these catastrophic, others are wear items, but all come up frequently enough on the boards. I've replaced most of the things listed at a cost in the 5 digits even thought I've done a good bit myself and my car has 34K miles. And there still things that haven't been addressed on my car that could still make it worthless if they fail. It's a long way of saying that a brand new RND engine is worth the piece of mind. At 17K, the winning bidder basically paid for an a brand new engine at got the Porsche for free. Just my $0.02 - others may feel differently. All this being said, even if my car blows up tomorrow...I'll probably be looking for another 996 or getting an RND engine lol because it's still the greatest bang for the buck. In my mind, it's a win if 996 can hold out until I'm ready to get the 997.2

Quotes source post: 15324848

You can inspect before bidding on BaT, you just have to be quick!

Had to cancel PPI for Monday. Car is having inspection done now at Pacific Power Motorsports. We shall see.

So . . . the 1999 996 Cab failed it's PPI miserably today. Thanks to Eric at Pacific Power Motorsports in Walnut Creek, CA for a thorough and honest inspection. The search continues.

Just for curiosity sake, what all was wrong with it?

It had apparently been in a major accident (not reflected on Carfax report), replacement components on front end, bent AC lines, dings, dents, touch-ups all over the body. Oil leak on right side of motor. Moisture in brake lines. Based on physical condition alone, technician recommended walking away from this one. For the record, I ran. Note to all my friends searching for a car - DO NOT TRUST A CARFAX REPORT TO BE ACCURATE