Looking at 996

I'm looking at a 2004 C2 with 80,000 mi. Servuce history is available. It had an alternator at 40,000 mi and ignition coils at 75,000.mi. Other than that only the normal maintenance. Im assuming I'm looking at a Clutch (original), OAS and Water Pump and pretty soon. Tires and brakes are around 50%. Is the IMSB less of an issue on these later cars? It's a Silver Car in excellent shape for the miles and age and of course has a manual transmission. Asking price is in the low 20's. With the maintenance history what do I need to budget for preventive maintenance, maybe $5,000?. What do you feel is a fair price for a car like this that's likely going to need some.work in the next 6-12.months.

I'd look at, and assume you might have to replace these items: 1) Clutch, RMS, IMSB, AOS, water pump, thermost and check the coolant reservoir and plastic coolant pipes closely. Yes, IMS is less reliable on the 996.2. 2) I'd also look closely at the suspension components. i.e. control (Coffin/wishbone) arms, control arms, drop links. 3) Motor mounts Plan to budget $5K if you're doing most of the work yourself. More if you're going to pay to have it all done. You might be like me and only spend $1500 in the first 6 months to a year. But better to expect worse and be pleasantly surprised! I actually spent the full $5K I budgeted...but on more fun stuff. I have budgeted $4K for the next year of ownership. $1000 is going towards new tires tomorrow. 2004 C2 with 80K should be very near $20K. Use the list of items found during PPI (whether by you or a shop) to bring down the price.

Do a PPI, and yes your replacements ASAP, low 20s is a good price IMO not seeing the car.also add coolant flush and a oil residue check for metal flecks.

Quotes source post: 15314435

IMS bearing is MORE of an issue when they went from dual row with straight shafts to single row with pretzel shafts. Budget an IMS if you buy, and oil analysis before buying. There's a spit load of silver cars out there for sale. At this mileage, unless it really rings your bell, selling prices are hovering around $20k. I would not go higher unless it had some really desirable options on the sticker, like aero, sport, PSM, Litronics, etc. You're staring at a $6500 bill just for catch-up stuff and IMS bearing right from the start. After that, depends on how handy you are. Don't forget motor mounts soon, and cleaning the rads and condensers, maybe some suspension wear items.

If you have a Durametric you can pull up many useful items like cam deviations, over-rev report, function checks on components, etc. IMO, the others are spot-on about the $20-21k and the other “don’t forget’s”. My purchase was a Seal Gray ‘02 C2 6sp with a 3.8 rebuild (for IMSB fail), partial service records, Carrera aero spoiler, and 80k miles on the odo. Overall the car was well cared for and my indie drove it for a couple of weeks/PPI’d it. I was very confident I was getting a good deal. Bought it for $21.5k and am so happy with the car! I spent $3k within first month to get a strong baseline car. I’ve spent much time and not too much money getting all fasteners, hoses, clamps, trim, interior, ducts, brake lines, electrics, fluids, interior, etc (~$3k total) taking everything as close to optimum function/appearance as I can without my wife having me committed to the asylum in Stuttgart. I think an ‘02-‘04 C2 with that many miles should run $20-$25k depending on history and options, factoring initial ownership costs, as well. No more. Good hunting!

"IMS bearing is MORE of an issue when they went from dual row with straight shafts to single row with pretzel shafts." ^^"Pretzel Shafts"^^ - I don't think I've heard this euphemism before... While I'm familiar with the bearing changes/issues, the only difference in the IMS that I'm aware of, is the sprocket/chain type used to drive it. Please describe this "pretzel shaft"... Thx

for reference, I've got a silver 99 which has the dual row IMS bearing at even with 92,000 miles i won't sell it for less than $20k.

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Sept 20, 2017 I paid exactly $20,000 for my Seal Grey 2002 C2 manual transmission, with 54,000 miles, IMS Solution(clutch, rms, and water pump also replaced by FSI at the time), clear bra, "GT3" bumper, and Fabspeed Exhaust(mufflers) Even ignoring the upgrades I've done to it I wouldn't sell it now for extreme high 20s! Unless it is totaled, I won't ever sell this 996!

Like the Squirrel, I can’t see any reason to “upgrade” to another car. Finding the right 911 is like saddling a unicorn. Once you’ve done it, it’s the stuff for legends and great beer-fueled stories. This car is so nice I don’t need a GT3 or Turbo (yet). Doesn’t mean I might not require one in the future, but... Spring shot of my C2 with summer 19”s

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A "pretzel" is a baked slender piece of dough which is typically formed in the shape of a heart, with the center joined in a twisted link. There is no straight segment in a pretzel. A "shaft"(noun) is a metal or sometimes wood slender cylinder, but could also mean a circular bore hole in the ground. In the context we have here, it would be a slender metal cylinder. Welcome

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Extremely well said. After the time/effort I have put into my 996, I absolutely love it. Everyone who drives it (those who have much more pricey 911s) are impressed by the feel and capability of a well-sorted 996.

Quotes source post: 15314435

I'm hate to say it, but the factory engine in your 2004 will have the single row bearing unless Porsche swapped the motor out under warranty. The original factory single row bearing in the Mk2 M96 motor was the worst of the bunch and known to fail more that the other two versions. You need to check the serial number on the engine. If it has an "AT" in the number, then you'll know it was replaced. But the important thing to know is "when was it replaced". That will tell you if you have the larger single row bearing found in the latter M97 motors. Good luck!

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Uh, yeah you're a regular comedian^^^ and explain how any of that relates to the IMS? Or were you just wasting your time and effort typing for giggles...?

I got a brand new LN Bearing for your 3 chain engine car if you are interested. Cheap. I certainly would add the idle bearings to the list. There goes another $400.

I think the theory on some of the later IM Shafts was that they were not manufactured to the same specs as the earlier ones. RND has measured some failed shafts and bearing bores which showed they were not within original spec. Thereby putting axial load on the bearing causing the premature failure. Given the fact that the failure rates are highest in 2001-2003 and there was the lawsuit against Porsche covering those years there must be something to it. So the pretzel comment was in reference to the poorer quality shafts in the later years. (again all theory)

Whut he saided. ^^^ NRRO of the later shafts show some remarkable failures in IMS machining tolerance, getting worse as the years go on. Tentatively related to the change in production after the fire in Stuttgart, but nothing confirmed.

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Fair enough Doc - still, while reading plenty about M96 engine problems, I've never heard of the latter Intermediate Shafts being refered to as "Pretzel Shafts"...

"pretzel shaft": Copyright 09-24-2018, 07:00 PM: Noun(compound) 'The intermediate shaft which drives both cams on the M96 Porsche engine from 1998-2007, where the shaft is found to be outside the bounds of machining tolerance, leading to the catastrophic failure of the engine'.

email me if u want stats on my 2003 4cs tip... [email removed] $30+k GLTU! marcus