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Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHH&R springs/Bilstein b8 shocks... I'm not a fan.
Reported or suspected cause
discriptive �pogo sticking�
Reported cause
No successful repair reported for this finding.
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Identified cause
0
Suspected cause
0
Reported fixes
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Reported cause
My problem is with the discriptive �pogo sticking�...
Leading evidence: 'discriptive �pogo sticking�' (1 discussions report identifying this cause; no attributable repair resolution). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'discriptive �pogo sticking�' (1 discussions; 1 report identifying it and 0 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Install h&r/bilstein b8's' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Reported cause
My issue was really with the �pogo stick� description...everything else is what it is.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
I purchased and installed H&R/Bilstein b8's on all 4 corners.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
I replaced OEM springs and blown shocks with H&R's and Bilsteins, and am very happy with the ride/handling compromise.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
For sale: A set of newly replaced shocks/springs/bumpstops/boots/top hats.
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Suspected cause
They are probably an unnecessary expense for road use for most (not all) users, because the reality is that most people, once happy with the setup for their particular roads won't play around with the height or settings.
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29 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
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I bought a 996 recently for a track day project. I've got most of the Tarett parts sitting on a shelf as well as a set of JRZ doubles. I wanted to street drive the car this winter to work out any bugs, so I took off most of the go-fast parts and went back to factory rubber bushings. I purchased and installed H&R/Bilstein b8's on all 4 corners. My impression is that this combo is the "worst of both worlds"... The suspension is rough at slow speeds, while still floaty when you start to ramp up the speed.
I'm not sure if the shocks are lacking dampening control, or if it's the variable nature of the spring rate; when a corner unloads, or when at high speeds it feels like I'm driving my grandma's Buick.
To be fair: I do still have a set of Tarett GT3 sway bars installed, as I found that the OEM front bar interfered with the 2 piece lower control arms as the bar curled around the GT3 LCA's ( the 2-peice are wider than the one piece). It is possible that the bar stiffness does not match the overall suspension dampening frequency. I'll try to set the bars even lighter. (currently at middle setting front and second from softest rear).
Not a fan of my current winter set-up.
That was a big driver with my move to go with a street coilover , matched spring rates and valveing in an integrated unit as opposed to the pogo stick effect of stiff springs and shocks
ive gone the stiff springs and sport shocks route in the past , while often better than the stock set ups , your story is familiar to me
"Pogo stick effect"
....
Here we go again...
"while often better than the stock set ups , your story is familiar to me" -
How could it possibly be better than stock, but also give the "pogo stick effect" ? Would Porsche really release something that bad from the factory? Or, is this just a way to justify putting a $4k set of JRZ's on a "mostly street" car? - Which is fine btw, it's your $ spend it as you see fit. ** I regularly take regular old bumpy street twisties at 60 mph+ and have never experienced this "pogo sticking" you guys speak of (B8's/H&R sport springs)
dporto: I've gotta agree with you. My '99 cab (RIP) drove like on rails on it's OEM suspension. Yes, maybe a little float above 100, but very comfortable and balanced.<br /><br />In my opinion using the JRZ coilover's on the street would be just a waste of good equipment. Racing shocks are wearable items and need to be refreshed every few seasons (@ $250.00 a pop). So, why use them up on the street?<br /><br />However, while trying to save my track shocks, I easily wasted $1500.00 on the Bilstein's/ H&R's... not exactly money well spent. Live and learn.
Better in a narrower focus , stock setups are set up to be comfortable and offer reasonable performance .
Compromise will appeal to a wider Cross section of buyers .
Thats why mo30 is an option , as an offering to those who want a more performance bias and are willing to accept a little less comfort .
as for experiencing the difference , you'd need to drive both back to back to understand The difference between design matched and close enough spring and valve rates of integrated units vs off the rack .If one hasn't driven both , there is no frame of reference otherwise. Plato's Allegory of the Cave
the coilovers I used are h&r s that are a partnership between them and bilstein , similar to the jointly ( h&r / bilstein) developed gt3 ones .
you can get them for about 500 bucks more than a b8 and springs set up.
I�ve driven coil overs back to back with my set up - is it the same? No! The coil overs imo are marginally better feeling and certainly more adjustable - as such they make way more sense for racing applications where you can match them to track/conditions. I have no quarrel with that at all - it is what it is. My problem is with the discriptive �pogo sticking�... its just a silly, over the top euphemism that really makes no sense. If any shock/spring combo is actually doing that it�s either because they�re extremely mismatched or they�re malfunctioning...
My 2003 C2 handles extremely well for track days HPDE, I am running street tires as it is not racing.
In addition I put 5-6000 street miles on every summer, and get an autocross or two in.
I installed a complete Techart Suspension, Coil springs, Front & Rear sway bars, Front strut mount.
These parts are mfg by Eibach to Techart specifications, they are designed to be used with only Bilsten B8 shocks.
The car rides firm but not rough. It handles very good for everyday driving.
On a large fast track like WGI, it performs excellent. Opinions from instructors & myself.
Would it handle different if I had slicks on, I don't know and don't care. It is not a race car.
The configuration was put together for just this purpose.
If it were a track car, I would concur, A good Coil over set up and corner balancing along with all the aftermarket parts like Tarret supply would be better. At a much higher cost as well.
Just my $.02
David
500 bucks more . Maybe less at tire rack
If if I had another 1500 bucks and was more track focused , I would have bought ohlins , imo the best option available for the 996 . The full adjustability would suit a daily and track focused car .
But bang for the buck , the jump from springs and b8s to non adjustable ( height only) SP or oem GT3 CO's is like going from mono to THX sound . Fully adjustable ohlins or pss10s is an order of magnitude better still .
I should note that my my Current 2004 c2 car came with row m030 before I upgraded at 35000 miles on the car
. Previously I had a 2000 model c2 purchased new
i had run b8s , konis and several manufacturers springs on my other 911s and audis . I did like eibachs Springs and Konis on my 355 .
If if you like what you have great ! The op didn't , modifications are a personal thing , is the forum hive brain saying he's wrong not liking the b8 and springs set up ?
Shows setups are very personal (or very variable)
I went from stock on my '03 C2 manual to H&R sport springs (blue) and B8 Bilsteins.
Difference was night and day on our NZ country roads (not known for being smooth!), no "pogo-stick", flatter cornering and sharper turn in.
The ride height is perfect.
You sure there's not something else going on here?
Every time someone comes out as not being 100% happy or offers a critique of a stiff spring & bilstein or Koni set up , these threads go the same way .
everyone gets defensive , and it's implied that those who prefer coilovers wasted their money because somehow on the street a shock and springs set up is better .
I would agree that some coilover setups are too track focused but most on the market aren't .
in my case , I think the factory gt3 hit the best road use / track use balance , a good friend of mine in the U.K. Had a mrk1 and a mrk2 996 gt3 and I got to use both cars a lot , I liked what the factory had done using coilovers and emulated the set up as much as I could with the budget I had .
i really would have liked to go with ohlins but spent the money on a guard limited slip diff instead , further emulating the gt3 .
I appreciate the comments and analysis. I do believe that I've got my setup mismatched.
Remember that I'm running GT3 sway bars. What I believe is happening is that the stiffer bars are out-driving the rest of the suspension, leaving me with a "floaty-wobble" as the car body catches up. As I mentioned before, I wasn't able to replace with OEM bars as they interfered with the GT3 LCA's. But, I bet that I could improve my situation by setting the current bars to their softest positions. Maybe this will solve the delay in the way the car settles. I'll try that and get back to you all. cj
I have the ohlins coil-overs with front and rear GT3 adjustable sway bars on my car and the car drives really well on the street I mostly do street driving and occasional auto-crosses.
FWIW, the car was corner balanced for my weight and camber set up for doing autocross, so my tires are not wearing even on the street. But cornering in this car will make go karts jealous.
i've got H&R and B8's along with new bushings rubbers etc going in next week. this is my stock C4s with 149k enthusiastically driven miles i am hoping the ride height and street feel is perfect for me as a daily driver. no track days planned in this car.
Can't see here where people have got "defensive" - some have described their experiences.
Coilovers are always going to be the best option, and are not "too track focused", but are certainly a far better option for track use than road. They are probably an unnecessary expense for road use for most (not all) users, because the reality is that most people, once happy with the setup for their particular roads won't play around with the height or settings.
But there will always be those who love doing that sort of thing.
For me, fiddling with my race car is all I have time to do, and a good general purpose road setup is all I need - the H&R/B8s are perfect for that.
I hope I didn�t come across as being defensive. My issue was really with the �pogo stick� description...everything else is what it is. It�s all good...
This is the third thread in as many months with some of the same participants where the springs and shocks crowd has gotten their dander up . Pogo sticking is a very common descriptor in the suspension game , it's usually more pronounced in motorcycles but describes the harmonic reaction that happens if valving , rebound damping and spring rates are not in synch . B8s may be used with mo30 , h&r , eibach , vtech etc , and will do a pretty good job with any of them . But a setup where both components are an engineered match are going to be better .
Yeah, I recall that, and it was a good thread that you and I pretty much agreed over. Not sure what your beef is here... bad day at the office?
Have a nice day, go for a blast in the 911. You'll feel better.
I think sometimes things sound harsher in text than theY would verbally
I'm a winery owner , never have a bad day in this office
December in the Cowichan Valley , just starting pruning
cheers
