Jacking problems with oil filled engine mounts

New 03 C4S owner. 56k miles, 6 speed. Long time lurker. I wanted to lift the car to get all four wheels off. After reading many articles here, after getting the front onto flat topped jack stands, I attempted to jack the rear on the temporary lift point on the rear of the engine casing. I have two floor jacks, one is a low profile jack but do not have enough reach to lift from any other single point at the rear. As I am lifting, I ended up with a large mess of oil on the garage floor. After restarting my heart, I worked out that the driver side engine mount had let go in a big way. It now occurs to me that with an oil filled mount, upward extension would not be good. Anyway, I managed to eventually use small ramps in rear and get vehicle onto four stands at the right spots. So, my question is this ? Anyone had this issue ? Does temp engine casing lift point not apply with oil filled mounts or was I just unlucky and mount was already close to failing ? Thanks all David On the upside, I have owned the vehicle a week and I now know a great guy called Gert in Belgium who is sending me some nice solid rubber RS mounts :-) And so it begins...

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You should not lift your car by the engine casing. Lift only from chassis members. I use the following process: 1) Using a floor jack, lift one side from the rear jacking point and place a jackstand under the front jacking point and some wood or a small ramp under the rear tire. Lower and remove jack. 2) Using a floor jack, lift the other side from the rear jacking point and place a jackstand under the front jacking point and some wood or a small ramp under the rear tire. Lower and remove jack. Now your entire front end is on jackstands, and the rear is raised several inches so you can still get a jack under the rear bumper. 3) Reach a floor jack all the way up under the rear, in FRONT of the engine, to the cast aluminum crossmember just in front of the rear swaybar. Lift from this point and put jackstands under the 2 rear jacking points. Now your car is on 4 jackstands on the 4 factory lift points, and you never put upward force on anything other than the chassis and the tires.

Thanks, comprehensive explanation and makes perfect sense. I have now made some nice ramps from stacked 2x12s I will not repeat my error. There is a pretty comprehensive thread here talking about the 'temporary lifting point' and various folks pitching in about the merits of it. Now with personal experience and after giving it some thought, I will not do it again but seems a large group of owners do and talk about it in the forums,

As said earlier, lifting the weight of the car by the engine is not a good idea. The only reason to jack the oil sump plate would be to support the weight of the engine only, while removing transmission or engine mounts. Good news is is that the engine mounts are easy to replace and yours were probably due for it anyway. So no harm no foul. I posted a how to on YouTube that walks you through the process. You Tube Welcome me to the forum and congrats on the purchase. Cheers charlie

Thanks Charlie, I have watched that vid several times, nice to 'meet' the originator, David

Good opportunity to upgrade the mounts to Function First. They're terrific. No affiliation with the vendor other than a happy customer. Once you do that, there is no fluid left to leak...

"The only reason to jack the oil sump plate would be to support the weight of the engine only" I wouldn't even recommend that...If you absolutely must do something like that, use a 2x4 or something similar to spread the load out across the edge(s) of the sump (once again, only to support the engine, not jack up the car - and never in the center of the sump cover). FWIW, you can use the rear cross member with a low profile jack from behind the rear bumper - you don't get much throw on the jack handle, but it works.

eh, this has been done on the aircooled cars with the same engine mounts for years. Its certainly not great for the mounts, but if yours ruptured that way, it was ready to be replaced anyway. Now with the solid mounts, you can jack with the engine if you like.

I am guilty of using that point on the casing just before the sump ALOT. So I am guessing your mount was about to be toast.

As was established in the other thread, clearly a lot of guys do it -- doesn't make it a good idea. I'm baffled that anyone would argue otherwise. I use the Jack Point stands and they are great. Yeah, they're expensive, but worth it, IMHO. Can get the whole car on 4 stands on the factory points by simply jacking each side once, from the rear jack point.

you may not like the semi solid mounts

I've also read the semi solid mounts can cause the knock sensors to go off and retard the timing too. Don't have any direct experience with this but it's one of the reasons I haven't upgraded from stock.

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If you absolutely must lift by the engine (although I don't get why...) ^That^ point is the one to use. "I use the Jack Point stands and they are great. Yeah, they're expensive, but worth it, IMHO." The Jack point stands are really nice - my only issue with them is that they're a fixed height. I prefer these http://liftbars.com/ I can safely lift my car high enough to drop the engine/transmission in about 8 minutes** (**The first time took much longer - around 20 min. because I was very deliberate and hadn't used them before, triple checking everything as I went. The last time I used them I actually timed it, and it took 8 min.). In any case, safety (of the car and your person) is always the ultimate goal when lifting/supporting the car.

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Those look great. I'm definitely going to buy a set if I don't end up with a 2 post lift. The next time I need to remove the transmission, its one or the other. I am NEVER going to go through that process again with just the jack stands.

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Those are cool. The reason I am often using the point by the sump is because I am often not in a garage (at the track). Although I do tow, there is only so much space I have for equipment.

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I am going to try the factory RS rubber type. Still plenty of isolation. I will report back.

Drill old ones from the top, flush with alcohol, fill with 3M window weld. I’m dying to hear how well this hack works.

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I have done something very similar to this. I dremeled the top off, cut open the rubber bladder and drained the liquid out. I drilled/cut/dremeled out as much of the rubber dam from both top and bottom so the internal piston was free to move about. Flushed with alcohol and water then let it dry for a couple weeks while I ordered the rubber. I used this 60A rubber: https://www.smooth-on.com/products/simpact-60a/ I flipped the dremeled lid over to make a cap and poured the rubber in from the bottom, bolt side so the piston was at the maximum height. 48hrs to set up and then installed. I have only noticed a SLIGHT increase in vibration and probably only because a was really paying attention. I have a Tip so can speak to shifting, etc. performance. Otherwise, feels the same as the stock mounts I removed.

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Interesting DIY! It seems like an aweful lot of labor but it seems like it worked out well. How did you reattach the �cap� after Dremeling it off?

Well, it didn't take too long to clean up the mounts. Maybe 30 minutes each, plus flushing and drying. My old mounts were totally spent and I had them in a box because I had already replaced them with new ones. This was a "I have time to waste, i wonder if it will work" kind of deal. The rubber was not expensive, just took while to get to me. I flipped the cap upside down and taped to to the mount to seal the seam. Then, the liquid rubber glued the whole thing together. the cap isn't necessary anyways. The rubber has to fill underneath the piston to hold the motor. The top part is extra, pointless. I didn't want a rubber top, so it is aluminum now.