PPI scheduled on 2002 996

Have a PPI scheduled on a 2002 996 coupe. Spent several months looking for a silver or seal grey car with low mileage and good maintenance records. Found the car in Utah has 40K miles and two previous owners. Car is very clean and I have documentation of recent maintenance which includes LN IMS retrofit, waterpump, RMS and other important service items. Car is being sent to porsche today for a PPI- I was hoping for some guidance on what I should look out for since I am potentially buying the car sight unseen. Thanks,

Quotes source post: 13413286

Well, everything. But if you are unable to visit the car in person and experience it over a 15 mile test ride then a 15 mile test drive and afterwards perform a used car check out you are relying upon the PPI to do this for you. Be sure you stress the car is to be driven for a some time/distance. The engine wants to be experienced from a dead cold start followed by some idle time then on the road being driven as you intend to drive the car. No need to get all animal with the car just 30 miles of driving the car in on the street obeying all the traffic laws is sufficient and without abusing the car. Afterwards the car is put in the air and a careful check is made for any leak sign and other signs of problems like damaged suspension, body panels, etc. Who did the LN IMS bearing retrofit? Water pump? RMS? Any warranty on at least the water pump and RMS?

Quotes source post: 13413372

Thanks for the reply! The work was done by Motorsport Inc, they are located in Utah and appear to have a good reputations. I have the records showing the clutch replacement, IMS Bearing (sticker is on the door) low temp T-stat, LN spin on oil filter, all new fluids etc. Everything seems to be legit, the car is actually being sold by the shop for their customer.

GL & be sure to post some pics if you do get it

Quotes source post: 13414723

Thanks! Will connect with deal tomorrow am for the results of the PPI. Can anyone recommend a shipping company? Potentially shopping from Utah to Florida

Refer to the section beginning on Page 8 of this Buyers Guide:

Quotes source post: 13414776

There's a ton of shippers, it's usually a good idea to go with one that owns & operates their own truck. Just do your homework, i Always go with an En-closed trailer cause you don't have to worry about it getting nicked up from road debris, weather, etc... though it does cost a lil' more but to me it's definitely worth it for a Nice vehicle. Check with the BBB & make sure it's insured against loss or damage & make sure they take pics before & do a full inspection of the car before & after delivery. Let me know if you can't find someone you're comfortable with (guy that always delivered mine has retired or i would have recommended him). There's always your Big name companies like Passport Transport, Reliable Transport & Exotic Transport, but just do your homework for the Best Prices.

fly in, drive home? no better way to acquaint (bond) yourself with a new car than a roadtrip

Quotes source post: 13415481

I had a buddy that did this with his dad & he said it was some of the most special memories that they've ever shared together & if he ever had the chance he'd do it all over again.

Just drove to New Jersey and back with my 12 y/o son to pick up a C2 and trailer it home. 3000 miles in 3 days. One of the best bonding experiences we've had.

Months looking for a grey or silver....those are a dime a dozen.

Quotes source post: 13415481

I would love to go this route, cars in Utah and I'm in Florida. If it was closer would no doubt drive it.

Quotes source post: 13417785

Thanks for the comment, can you point out a few listings that meet my criteria? Looking for a silver with black interior, coupe,manual. 2002-2004 with clean service records, reasonable mileage and fair price?

Quotes source post: 13415257

I have been looking, what Ive found is most companies that ship cross country are brokers. I have found a couple that agreed to take photos and a video prior to the car being shipped. Have yet to find a company that is actually doing the shipping, so if you can recommend a company that will do the shipping and not bid it out that would be much appreciated.

Quotes source post: 13413372

Just checked for leaks and stuff at the dealer, figured they would clean it well and that if it did leak it wouldn't show anyway really. Took it for a 5 mile drive which was more to make sure there weren't any weird sounds or weird handling - it was my first time driving any 911 at that point. Listened to any weird ticks or stuff in the engine or things that sounded bad, and ignored the muffler that had a baffle loose. But really, unless you drop the pan and check the engine out a PPI won't really get to anything that a short test drive and listening won't sniff out. IMO and I have a higher tolerance for risk than some.

Quotes source post: 13415481

+996

Quotes source post: 13417873

Kevin, did you check with Passport, Reliable or Exotic? I Don't think they bid out, but they're usually a lil' more expensive. But, these companies are bonded, insured & top notch. Like the old sayin' you get what you pay for.

Quotes source post: 13418418

I'm going to call all three today. I know reliable is mostly covered transport, hadn't decided if I'm going open trailer or enclosed. Thanks for the recommendations!

Thanks for all the replies. I received the report back from the inspection. The dealer said the car was very clean, no visible issues and verified most of the recent maintenance. I received a copy of the DME report- 2002 996 41K miles Range 1= Number of ignitions= 6781 also has a value that says 1158H on same line Range 2= Number of ignitions=10 also has a value that says 622.4H on same line Total Engine hours = 1190 Any input on these numbers?

The DME looks fine to me. Not super clean but not too bad. I think the range 1 shows something like 10s of hitting the rev limiter. There are very few range 2 (mechanical over revs) and they happened almost half its life ago so if there was going to be an issue it would have surfaced by now.

Quotes source post: 13417830

The good news is that your first two criteria (silver over black) describes a **** ton of 996 inventory - almost all of the lease configurations were silver over black. Unfortunately, your match rate starts to decline from there - many lease vehicles were tip cabs rather than manual coupes - but silver over black is still going to be the most common configuration you'll run into. Those range 2 over-revs are the ones to be terrified of - those are downshifts where the driver either blew a shift and did something like a 4-1 or 5-2 downshift or just stuffed it into the next lower gear and popped the clutch without slowing down sufficiently, winding the engine up beyond redline. The good news is that they happened a long time ago, and the count is very low. The range 1 ignitions are the number of ignitions that occurred with the car at redline - so one of the previous owners bounced the car off the limiter a few times, which is less concerning...

Quotes source posts: 13419298, 13419312

Thanks, I was not sure hot to read. The dealer doing the inspection did not seem that knowledgeable as it relates to the DEM report. Thanks for the response. I am finding that there are a ton of cabs, and a decent amount of cars with tips. Many searches I have done pull up very little inventory for a well maintained, clean serviced car that falls into my price range. I have seen a few locally, the only issue is many of the people do not know the true value of these cars. Two or three I found locally are asking for low 30's 2002,or 2003 model year with 60-80K miles. Some of them have good history, but few have documentation of water pump, IMS etc.

Quotes source post: 13419329

This isn't that surprising, since forum jockeys are the people who consider the water pump and IMS to be maintenance items rather than parts to replace when the old one breaks. Although 996's and 986's are fairly common, there are still indies out there who don't do much work on the M96 and don't know some of the stuff that we (for better or for worse) take for granted.

Quotes source post: 13419312

So based on the facts thinking of pulling the trigger. The DME report should not scare me away?

10 range-2 over revs and some enthusiastic time spent bouncing off the rev limiter wouldn't dissuade me. Those are 10 ignitions - i.e. cylinders sparking - not revolutions. Range-2 over revs would have eliminated this car from being a candidate for being CPO - so obviously Porsche considers them to be a bad thing - but if the car is still running perfectly this many hours later, those 10 ignitions wouldn't be a deal breaker. The range-2 ignitions happened half the life of the engine ago...

Here is the DME of the C2 I just bought. The 65535 range 1 is the max counter as someone pointed out so there is no telling what the actual is. This has been a dedicated track car so the DME wasn't unexpected and I'm cognizant of the risks involved. I merely post it so you can see an example of a DME that you would want to run like hell from.

^ Type-2 over-revs 12 operating hours ago on a street car translates to "f**ked up a shift...still runs but makes weird noises now. Flushed the coolant to get rid of the oil...hope it stays clean until after the sucker - er, next owner - takes delivery." The 65K red-line ignitions is an impressive number...is the tranny stock, or have the gears been adjusted? With that much time @ redline, you have to wonder if GBox was involved with some shorter gearing...

Tranny is stock on the outside and, except for the Quiafe, no mention of changes on the inside. It still shifts very smooth. With 8,000 track miles I figure I will get a chance to rebuild the engine at some point. But it runs strong and isn't shedding metal or plastic. So I'm going to pamper it in the garage, drive it at limits on the track, and enjoy it at all times. Well, once I get the new subframe installed that is.

Quotes source post: 13419462

Thanks, I have been doing my research and based on some of the things I've seen it looks like this car wasn't beat on too hard. Only has 41k miles and RMS, IMS, water pump and clutch all done very recently. Only thing stopping me is buying the car sight unseen, they want 25k for the car... Which considering recent service I all major issues on these cars seems fair.. Thoughts?

Looks like a really nice car. You are paying a bit of a premium but the mileage and maintenance are probably worth it.

Quotes source posts: 13419462, 13420091

Well what a waste of time a money. Was dealing with a middle man on the car, went and had it inspected and was waiting to hear from the owner on the details. Called back today and car was sold.

Aw jeez, that sucks. I think he owes you for the inspection. I assume no deposit was placed though? In general, the PPI should be a contingency: "I will buy this car assuming a good PPI outcome."

Selling a car out from underneath you while you are getting a PPI is total crap. That's a major bummer but on to the next one. Tell him you want to be refunded for the PPI. It's low percentage and fairly unproductive but will provide a good opportunity to vent.

Yeah, dude, you should not be on the hook for an inspection for a car that was not actually available. Light that bastard up. Now you know one additional question to ask when you're working on the next candidate...

Highly annoyed by this situation. You spend time to find the right car, I'm ready to go and boom. If anyone sees anything come up, looking for a clean coupe with low miles and manual. Thanks!

When you come across another one, it would be worth checking here to see of one of us can go eyeball it for you. At least that would save you from paying for a PPI on something that another 996 owner could identify as a no-go...

Quotes source post: 13420334

Thanks for all your help! Actually found another car locally. It's a very clean car with most of the key maintainance already completed. Here's the auto trader listening http://m.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=428385750&zip=33305&endYear=2002&pageLayo ut=list&sortBy=distanceASC&startYear=2002&listingTypes=used&searchRadius =50&mmt=%5BPOR%5B911%5B%5D%5D%5B%5D%5D I went to see the car, it was very clean. Owner is a former spec Miata race car driver and car enthusiast. He is the 4th owner and bought the car with 35k miles. When he got the car he did the LN single row retrofit, new water pump, 160 t-stat and even sent injectors to be cleaned and flow tested. He has the LN receipts as well as the paper that was filled out when the IMS retrofit was done and sent in for the LN warranty. Car has nearly every option, sticker was over 106k. I think there is room in the price, thoughts? My main concern is that he's a former racer, thinking he might run this car hard, he's said it never been tracked. Any input would en helpful. Thanks

The price is at a bit of a premium BUT it looks like an awesome car! People that track their cars generally drive them much better on the street because they know the proper place to explore the car's limits. Whereas someone that doesn't track is more likely to drive it like jackass on the street because why else would they buy it. OK, I'm actually talking about myself before and after I started tracking but I think it applies. All of the right maintenance is done, mods are tasteful, condition looks phenomenal. I think you would really enjoy this car.

Hi. kevinbonds - Don't know where in Florida you are located, but the Mercedes dealership in Pompano has a 2002 Coupe, Arctic/Black, 6-speed. advertised currently for 18900. Hope that helps.

Quotes source post: 13423537

Thanks for the feedback. The seller seems knowledgable and said he spent a great deal of time doing most of the preventative maintenance. I'm close to getting the deal done, going to have it looked at by a local shop. My main concern is making sure it's not been abused. The car sounds great, he had the mufflers sent off to be modified which gave them a great throaty sound without allot of drone. It does only have the classic single row IMS retrofit, it was done in 2013. I know LN says 4 years or 50k miles, it's probably coming up on 4 years. Would that be something that needs to be addressed? He's only about 10k miles since the retrofit.

Looks and sounds like a great car. It is very similar to my car (MY04 vs 02, basically the same car with almost the same mileage). Agree that it is priced at a premium. I would price this car at about $27K (stock). The aerokit will add some value - not sure if it is the genuine Porsche kit as the sideskirts look like they are from the 996.1. The other mods on the car are difficult to value, as it depends to a great extent on the individual buyer. I also think people will look at these mods in one of two ways - uh-oh this car has been tracked, or great less I need to do to it. A thorough PPI with compression test and over-rev report may help ease your feelings if you are worried about it being on the track.

Quotes source post: 13423611

Thanks for the response! I looked at that car. It's silver with grey interior? It's a decent car but there was little in the form of maintenance records and the exterior appears to have some wear as it was not garaged. The car has been driven that's for sure! I'm willing to pay a bit more for a car with some history and some of the common items sorted out. Or is it worth to gamble on a car with no history If save a few bucks?

Quotes source post: 13423617

Thanks for the reply, this form is very helpful! I believe the side skirts are factory, I checked the vin and saw the build sheet. The car had a crazy amount of options. I think there is some room on the price, I think it's a case where he wants it to go to the right buyer. He has all the records since he's owned it and is ok with a PPI. He even is willing to set up a call with the mechanic who's done all the work to ease any of my fears. Thanks!

Yes, you are correct. The vehicle does indeed have a gray interior. Sorry about that. Coincidentally, the 996 I ended up buying is a 2002 coupe, silver/black, stick. I found it at the Jag dealer in West Palm. Wasn't the top of my list color-wise, but it's been a great car and I love it! Good luck with your search. It sounds like you are going to end up with a really nice car!

Have you already looked at this one? Looks pretty clean in the pictures. http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...28880380&Log=0

Quotes source post: 13424153

Thanks for the info. I actually looked at that far and got as far as a PPI.. Took it to a well respected Indy. Car had a major leak between engine and transmission. Needed 4 tires, clutch was nearly gone, ac was not blowing cold, engine mounts were pretty bad and the car had no service records. I was on with that as most of it was minor however the dealer would not mode a dollar on the price. They wanted 23,995 plus a 600 dealer fee. So essentially the car would cost 25k, in addition the the work it needed. It was a clean 2 owner car.

Quotes source post: 13424276

WOW, i would have offered 13-15k for it & NO More, 15k on the high end

Quotes source post: 13424373

Agreed, looking at a minimum of 5-6 grand for the necessary work.

Quotes source post: 13424153

Be very very careful with this outfit, I had major problems with them.

Quotes source post: 13424537

Sorry to hear about this. I walked away from the car, too many unknowns. What happened in your case? Thanks

Quotes source post: 13424550

Many things, but one of the most offensive it that they tend to keep their ads posted far after the cars have sold. Then when you call they tell you it's available and you show up and it's been sold weeks if not months earlier. Then they try to push another car on you, to which you say, "F%&K NO, I came to see this particular car, that's why I called to confirm it was available"

Quotes source post: 13423617

Do you think of the car passes a PPI and I can get it for 25-26K it's worth pulling the trigger? I read so many posts that people pay lower prices. Have yet to fine a clean car with documented maintainance that is much cheaper, this car has nearly every option.

Quotes source post: 13425919

For sure, I would go for it. But I track my car and I therefore put value on mods that make the car better on track, like many of the mods on this one. Other owners that only use their 996 on the street may disagree. I also love the aerokit, and if I come across one for a reasonable price I will be adding it to my 996 (the wing is the priciest part and can go for several thousand alone).

I would get the '99 aero on BAT if you can afford it. That's my favorite p-car I've seen. Well maintained and excellent mods! Plus, it's the best Porsche year ever!

Quotes source post: 13423611

Another "don't know where in Florida you're located" suggestion, but there's a 51k-mile ME in Miami, was advertised at a rather strong $25,500 a couple of months ago when I was looking, now on CL and eBay classifieds at $22k. I suspect the owner would negotiate a fair bit, too, since his second child is on the way

Quotes source post: 13426411

Thanks for the reply. Agreed I like the aero kit also, and the fact the car has been well maintained. One issue I have is the fact that he had the IMS retrofit done by a local Indy mechanic whom to my knowledge has not done many LN retrofits. The owner did say the mechanic was excellent and followed the LN pre qual guidelines. It's a great car, the only unknown is the quality of the work. Current owner is an enthusiast and seems to be very knowledgable.

Quotes source post: 13426524

Haven't come across this one. Can you share a link?

Quotes source post: 13426521

BAT?

Quotes source posts: 13426533, 13426535

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-911-...-/201615263611 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...a-trailer.html

Quotes source post: 13426567

Thanks! I've seen that car in Miami on CL. Cars been hit in rear quarter, otherwise a clean car.

Quotes source post: 13426527

You cannot make this stuff up! I has a PPI scheduled on this car for tomorrow, had the person down to what I thought was a fair price. I decide I am going to google his name. The car the he said has never been tracked... well I found some posts on various forms that he lost his motor at a track event. He sourced a donor motor and transmission and replaced them in the car. I called him and he said he was not lying, the information was available online and it's public record. Unreal! Search continues.

Quotes source post: 13430892

Good job. Believe nothing. Believe no one. He probably stabbed the engine in the car just to sell it.

Great job doing your homework!!!!

Quotes source post: 13430892

Holy hell. I am starting to think I got really lucky on my purchase... EDIT: Sorry, don't want to sound like I am rubbing it in. Good luck with your search, and good sleuthing!

Quotes source post: 13431366

Finding a clean 996 at a reasonable price with not stories is not as easy as it seems. In on to a lead for a car from a local guy. One owner cobalt blue... Let's see what happens

Quotes source post: 13430892

Wow. At least you'll have a good story to tell after you find the right one! I agree that the seller really should have been upfront with you with full disclosure. The engine replacement isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's just that now you would need info on the car PLUS info on the engine. My car also has a replacement engine but it's a much better engine - larger diameter IMSB, lower miles, and it pulls much stronger than the original. It may devalue the car to some people but I don't care because I plan on taking it to the grave with me Good luck with your continued search!

Quotes source post: 13431607

Disclosure was my biggest issue. Can't sell a car and say 47k miles never been tracked etc.. Then I fjnd out the original motor destroyed on the track.