Loss of coolant, oil contamination

The over-temp light came on when my wife was driving today my 1999-996C4 at 87,500 miles. She did not note hoe hot it got and the light was flashing when I went out and turned it on to investigate. I checked the coolant tank and it was empty and the cap was coated with white �mayonnaise� that smelled like engine oil. The oil on the dip stick looked normal, but may be a bit higher on the stick after the last check. I just had a bunch of work on it and have put on less than 500 miles since getting it back. That shop tells me it is likely a failed oil cooler. The recent work was centered on replacement of the Timing Chain Guides, which I reported back on August 21st. They also replaced the spark plug tubes seals, scavenge pump O-ring and several seals, the oil separator and hoses plus seals, secondary air check valves, oil pressure switch, serpentine belt, clutch, flywheel, clutch release arm, RMS, intermediate shaft housing, air injection valves, engine case bolts, transmission and front differential lube oil, flush and fill brake fluid, an engine oil change, timing adjust, spark plug check, and the 90K mile check-up (now at 87,500 miles). I can�t help but wonder if the above repair work and my new problem are connected. Is it possible a seal was left out or a part mis-installed that could lead to oil in the coolant and loss of coolant. Luckily the car was not driven far or hard since the light went on and I hope no damage was done. The shop wants me to have it hauled back in (60 miles and a ferry ride to get there) to see what is going on. It will have to wait a week to ten days before I can rent a car hauler and drag it in (no I don�t have towing insurance coverage) Your advice, comments, and suggestions are most appreciated.

Hopefully it’s just the coolant tank that went bad since you don’t have coolant in your oil. Has it ever been replaced? They almost always need to be replaced every few years. They tend to leak when pressure builds so it’s possible that the coolant leaked out slowly while on the road. Was the coolant cap covered with mayonnaise or was it the oil cap? It’s not uncommon for the oil cap to have the mayonnaise buildup; it has something to do with condensation. A failed air oil separator has been report to cause the same problem but, I see you had your replaced. The flashing low coolant light was what alerted me to my intermix problem that necessitated the replacement of my engine. Hopefully it is just the oil cooler. Keep us posted and good luck.

Does the oil on the dipstick look like chocolate milk? If so, it's what happened to me and not good.

Usually in a garden variety water cooled engine if you see milky coolant or oil and overheating at the same time that means a blown head gasket. Hopefully in your case it is something different.

in the first staement I am wondering... how much was that bill? that is a huge amount of work done. I am chasing a leak also, have you looked under the car, front to back, for wet areas indicating a possible leak? GL and keep us ininformed Ed

The total bill for parts and labor, with sales tax was $6452.15. The were no signs of leakage on the garage floor either before or now after the overtemp incident. I'll let all know what the autopsy uncovers and what we decide to do from here.

Quotes source post: 5756146

WOW, actually that doesnt sound like much for that much work, Thanks for sharing! GL on this and keep us informed Ed

Whenever you do this much work, there's a chance something old but seemingly healthy bows out under pressure from all those new parts! Good luck, and what is the labor rate at that shop?!

The shop rate was $110.00 and they had the car for 4 days. Thanks for the thought that the new parts caused a "blow out" in old parts, like an oil cooler.

Initial disassembly found the oil cooler to be ok, and no external engine signs of a leak. Cylinder pressure drop was ok except two were "a little fast". Next step appears to be to remove the engine and check the head gaskets, et al. Any ideas or suggestions....? Thanks

I don't mean to scare you but sounds like you cyclinder walls may be failing. It's typical of 99' engines,just look around here and Boxster forums(97-99' 2.5L had the same design flaw). I'm praying for you that it's not the case. Most cases where this happened occured below 60k mileage,but there is a first time for everything. Could be the oil cooler, another known failure among M96 cars. I don't see an oil seperator would have anything to do with this,it's not related to the engines coolant mixture in any way. Please do tell if you know something that I don't though. As for the coolant tank leaking,I would check into it. Know problem with these cars as well. My local P-car shop owner says the engine bay heat is too much for the tanks. I don't know if it's true though,cause Boxster have the same problem and their tank are in the rear trunk away from the engine.

Quotes source post: 5824901

Oh no you didn't! You'll get hounded out of Dodge for even mentioning the M96 block issues here - hope you have your flame proof underwear on!

The autopsy found a crack in the head at the number 1 spark plug hole and radiating out from there. My options appear to be: 1. replace the engine with a factory rebuild with 2 year unlimited mileage warranty ($11K) 2. replace just the head with a new one ($2.3K) 3. replace the head with a used one, if one can be found ($TBD) Since the car is in decent shape, and the clutch was just replaced and all 90K mile servicing done (see above), I think replacing the engine may be a good option. I had planed to keep the car before all this happened, and I still want to have a P-car. All comments, suggestion, and good advice are much appreciated.

Replace the engine. If one head has cracked, the other is probably not far behind, so for $5k more you get a new engine with ALL new peripherals, (pumps, altenator, etc)...worth it since the engine is already out.

Sorry to hear about this. I agree with the recommendation to go for the new engine, especially since you want to keep it. And, I'd bet good money you could get a fair amount for your block, since there is definitely a market out there for uncracked 3.4 liter blocks (given that this is typically what goes, not the head). Good luck.

good suggestion above... +1 on new engine.

I purchased a new engine to replace my 2001 3.4L with 57K miles after experiencing the same problem. Once oil was noticed in the coolant here is what we did: 1) Flushed entire cooling system with Shout. 2) Replaced the Oil Water cooling system on the top right of the engine as that could be the issue and cost was $500. 3) After two DE events, I noticed the brown coolant again. Using a long peice of tubing I sucked out about two liters into a water bottle. After letting this mixture settle, about 2/3 of the fluid was oil! 4) Now I knew the issue and had one of two ways to go. Repair the gasket etc or replace. I replaced for $8500 plus $1500 to install. New engine is completely new with two year Porsche warranty and significantly upgraded Joel Riser at PCA has addressed this issue and helped me through my problem. Your engine is shot...sorry!

Quotes source post: 5854626

No you would do a core exchange to keep the engine price around $8500. At least, that is what I did.

Thanks to all with the good advice. I'll plan on replacing the engine. "bella1"; where and when did you get an engine exchange for $8500? Best price I've found so far is $11K with the exchange. I understand Porsche sells a cooling system cleaner to get the oil out, which I'll plan on having the shop use. The Oil/water cooler was boiled out and pressure tested OK.

Sunset or Suncoast will get you the best price, but FWIW there have been many reports of price increases on the 3.4's due to the weak dollar and # of replacements from just last year. 10k may be the going discount price...

cdodkin: Looks like he didn't need asbestos underwear after all...just another in an ever expanding line of failures...some similar, some slightly different, but failures nonetheless.....

Here is the info on Engines/Pricing from my post last week. 3.4's are now over $11,000, more expensive thn 3.6's or 3.6 X51's. Unbelievable!!! The price of $8,500 for a 3.4 is from last year I think. Pricing on Remanufactured engines from both Sunset and Suncoast 3.4 E-gas $11,010.06/$2,229.63 core charge 3.6 $8,543.78/$2,336.81 core charge 3.6 X51 $9,600.73/$2,566.24 core charge Shipping seems to be $300-$400 each way to Chicago area. Remember that the core charge is refunded only after the core is returned to the dealer, then returned to Porsche and torn down to see if it is "rebuildable." I am not sure what impact a cracked cylinder head or cracked liner has on this refund, although Porsche does not seem to want to tell anyone what the problem with the engines are. Does anyone have any knowledge of how Porsche handles this. Also, Suncoast says you can use a 3.4 core on a 3.6 engine, but you get the lower credit for the core return, so this could be a couple of hundred dollars. R&R of the same engine (i.e. 3.4 for 3.4 or 3.6 for 3.6) seems to run from $1,500 to $2,500 depending on dealer or independant. Upgrading from a 3.4 to a 3.6 cost more. Roock quotes $4,000 to $5,000+ for a turnkey. They also said the price togo to a 3.8 (997) would be about the same. There was a 3.8S engine listed here in the classified for only $9,010 with a core charge of $2,376, but I have not checked this out with a dealer. Other options, flat6 innovations is offering a rebuild, including new sleeves, and a proprietary IMS upgrade (they say better than Autofarm) for about $14,000. There is a shop in the Los Angeles area (not Motormeister) that has 3.4's foir $6,500, with a $2,500 core deposit, refunded if rebuildable, some reductions if a head is cracked, or a liner. 6 months 6,000 mile warranty. They say they check all heads and blocks for cracks, and have a proprietary upgrade to the IMS. Don't know too much about this one.

Wow, prices have gone up. I think I paid around $9.5 5 months ago for my 3.4L. Sunset was very quick I made good on my refund. I wouldn't hesitate to deal with them again. My shipping wasn't very much either. I spent a lot on the replacement engine and even though I'm selling my car now I don't regret it at all. I highly recommend the factory replacement engine. Everything has been checked over, you get new spark plugs, alternator, starter, power steering pump, stock headers, etc. with a 2 year warranty. Hard to put a value on that piece of mind. My car was only down for 3-4 weeks total. Kent

so i understand this..is the 3.4 ..13k and change..and you get 2k back..or is it 11k and you get 2k back...sorry i am a tad slow at times.. how much is the install?? thanks,j

Right now the numbers are: $11K Factory engine, plus $2.75K Core deposit, refunded if the core is "accepted by Porsche", plus $2.8K Labor, plus $2.5K estimated additional parts and labor to flush the cooling system, recharge the A/C, misc hoses, freight/transport charges $19K total, less -$2.75K core deposit refunded equals $16.3K total So, is it all worth it? I love the car, but it is killing me financially, and now is not a good time to be bleeding. When I add up all I've put into it and add the cost of the new engine, then subtract what I think I could get for it (max), for the number of miles I've put on it (less than 5500), the car is costing me $6+ per mile, without including gas or insurance. Very disappointing to say the least. I bought the most car that I thought I could afford at the time and it has been downhill all the way. I thought I did my homework, but boy has ownership been an eye opener. Do I have a lemon? Seems my experience is not untypical, more unfortunate. I have to decide what to do in the morning.

I think your numbers are a little high. The engine is $11,010, plus about $600 for shipping to you and returning the core. The core deposit on a 3.4 is approx. $2,300, which you should get back. Even my local Stealer is only $2,500 to remove the old engine and put in the new one. It should be about 15 hrs. I don't know where the other $2,500 is from, flu8sing the cooling system should only be a couple of hours, and the AC compressor is not removed so you should not need to recharge it. There may be some belts and hoses but that should only be a couple of hundred dollars and the install should be part of swapping the engines. However, I know it is alot of money, my car is sitting in the garage waiting for a winning Lotto ticket. So I certainly sympathize with you.

Another option is to buy a 3.6 engine from Suncoast, $8,500, pay the difference in core charges, about $400, so you are still about $2,000 less than a 3.4, then ship it to Roock in Atlanta, They are between $4,000 and $5,000 alll in for the conversion from a 3.4 to a 3.6, so you are under $15,000