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YOUR RESEARCHReplace a 45K LN IMS bearing 'while we're in there?'
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Replace first around 30k as it was out
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We replaced our first around 30k as it was out for an RMS job and it was half gone so we went ahead and did it (mileage accumulation slowed drastically shortly after so it wasn't just another 2 years before we got to the expected 60k as we expected).
Replace a 45K LN IMS bearing 'while we're in there?'
Frequently discussed work
Recommend replacement has already passed
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Suggestion
I'm thinking, (i) you went with a bearing you knew you had to replace, (ii) you're in there now, and (iii) the time period for recommended replacement has already passed.
Replace a 45K LN IMS bearing 'while we're in there?'
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Leading evidence: 'Replace first around 30k as it was out' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is '99.9% threshold' (1 discussions; 0 report identifying it and 1 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Recommend replacement has already passed' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
Unless you have owned the car its lifetime you don't know how often oil was changed, quality used etc.
Replace a 45K LN IMS bearing 'while we're in there?'
Replace with an ln engineering bearing
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
Along with a new clutch, I had my IMS bearing replaced with an LN Engineering bearing when I bought the car way back in 2008.
Replace a 45K LN IMS bearing 'while we're in there?'
99.9% threshold
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Suspected cause
They will have run their calculations and taken probably a 99.9% threshold which resulted in that 75k/6 years.
Replace a 45K LN IMS bearing 'while we're in there?'
Recommend replacement has already passed
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Suggestion
I'm thinking, (i) you went with a bearing you knew you had to replace, (ii) you're in there now, and (iii) the time period for recommended replacement has already passed.
Replace a 45K LN IMS bearing 'while we're in there?'
Frequently discussed actions (10)
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Recommend replacement has already passed
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Suggestion
I'm thinking, (i) you went with a bearing you knew you had to replace, (ii) you're in there now, and (iii) the time period for recommended replacement has already passed.
Replace a 45K LN IMS bearing 'while we're in there?'
Replace engines @ 20k +
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Suggestion
LN/FSI did extensive testing and developed the procedure to retrofit the IMS bearing, while Porsche was telling us we had to replace our engines @ 20k +...
Replace a 45K LN IMS bearing 'while we're in there?'
Replace first around 30k as it was out
No successful repair reported for this finding.
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Read evidence and context
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
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0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
We replaced our first around 30k as it was out for an RMS job and it was half gone so we went ahead and did it (mileage accumulation slowed drastically shortly after so it wasn't just another 2 years before we got to the expected 60k as we expected).
Replace a 45K LN IMS bearing 'while we're in there?'
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Along with a new clutch, I had my IMS bearing replaced with an LN Engineering bearing when I bought the car way back in 2008. It had just about 40,000 miles at the time. The car just rolled over 82,000 and a new clutch is in my near future. Say one year/5,000 miles or so.
The question: Stick with the current IMS bearing, or replace it 'while we're in there?' To be honest, I can argue this either way. Interested in opinions and experience, but not hysteria.
Well, the LN site says replace every 75K miles or 6 years....you are past the 6 year mark.
If you plan to keep the car I would do the IMS solution and be done with it.
How do you know your clutch is going out? slipping? 42k on a clutch isn't that much...
If you decide to pull the old LNE IMS and replace it, it would be great if you could report back here with observations on the old bearing.
It would be really useful info for those of us like me who have LNE IMS bearings and would like some feedback on their longevity!
There is a time expiration on the bearing too, not just miles. I never remember if it is 5 or 6 years, but either way you're beyond that point.
So I think I'd go ahead and do it at the same time since even just by milage it wouldn't make your next clutch anyway.
Do it now.....you will pay much more to have it done down the road on its own. Besides, you are due based on time (not miles).
Chris(MA)....the longevity is 6 yrs 75k....that's the suggested service interval. It is clear it has not failed on this 40k/9 yr installation, but I don't think that should give you the warm fuzzies to run yours for 9 or 10 yrs, too.
We drive as Porsche intended?
40-60k seems to be the normal range with the 50-60k range what I would probably call normal. It's the ones that get 80k or more (I recall reading someone getting like 110 or 120 out of theirs
) that boggles my mind.
My Indy got 80k out of his 6GT3 and I know he didn't baby that thing, so who knows.
We replaced our first around 30k as it was out for an RMS job and it was half gone so we went ahead and did it (mileage accumulation slowed drastically shortly after so it wasn't just another 2 years before we got to the expected 60k as we expected). Similar story at 70k when the transmission was out 10 years later, though the flywheel (original) was done. So while we haven't had one in that long, we seem to be in the 50-60k range.
I'm thinking, (i) you went with a bearing you knew you had to replace, (ii) you're in there now, and (iii) the time period for recommended replacement has already passed. It seems like a no-brainer to do the replacement even though the bearing might be okay.
It's an interesting dilemma though. You bought a car with a "lifetime" bearing that never needed replacement and replaced it with one that has a limited lifetime. Of course, sticking with the original bearing came with the risk that it would shred your engine without warning while the latter one...well...couldn't it potentially do the same? The key difference is that LN warned you. Being so warned, I'd change the bearing.
-Eric
Of course put in a new bearing! If only to tell all of us how the old one comes out...Curious to see that. It should come out perfect. That would be a single row ceramic in there? Will you now put a dual row in?
Just as a FYI, bearing degradation for an anti-friction bearing is based on revolutions, lubrication, cleanliness, etc. and not time. I do know they say after so many years.....but it really doesn't have anything to do with it unless it is sitting there rusting away.
My guess is that they idea is that if you haven't gotten to the milage in that amount of time then the theory is that it may not have seen consistent and effective lubrication. Obviously it's lasted well past that in this case so there is likely a good amount of "cover our ***" thrown in there too.
I've never stayed at a Holiday Inn Express though, so what do I know?
I'm not saying don't replace it....just sayin' that the life of all ball bearing is proportional to the amount of revolutions, with each one it gets closer to end of life.
The only real downside of replacement is if it's installed incorrectly and has a premature failure due to installation error.
Yeah. Was just throwing out my non-studied guess as to why they have the time limit even though it "technically" shouldn't be needed is all.
Yeah that's the one thing that bugs me about replacing a bearing that has 70k+ on it (or god forbid 100k+). If it's gone that long and isn't showing signs of failure, then messing with it (no matter how good the installer is) adds the chance of a mistake (though Jake's tool designs seem to take most of that risk away).
Now knowing that our original was a healthy and happy dual row I've often thought I should have just left well enough alone, but life goes on and now there is a DR Solution we can go with the next time around.
A bearing in grease sealed up is one thing, but these bearings are in engine oil. So they see combustion products etc.
Although I seem to recall the IMS bearing is actually immersed in oil when the engine is switched off.
If changing it out doesn't add too much extra time or cost, I would say change it out. Would be very curious to see the condition of the bearing. I bet it looks like new.
Does anyone really believe LNE tested these bearings for 6 years or 75k in a simulated or real life setting like Porsche AG did?? In all likelihood, they pulled those numbers out of their behind.
What makes you think Porsche AG tested them? I think the class action suit proved otherwise. LN/FSI did extensive testing and developed the procedure to retrofit the IMS bearing, while Porsche was telling us we had to replace our engines @ 20k +... While I do believe in Porsche's engineering abilities, they also answer to a board of trustees, accountants and shareholders...
Of course they did not test it that way; that is what we all are doing now actually.
They will have run their calculations and taken probably a 99.9% threshold which resulted in that 75k/6 years. That also means if you are willing to take a 99% chance the bearing will be good for 150k/10 years etc.
You can only assume the 75k/6 years is a safe bet by a large margin. IMHO if a double standard bearing has a 1% chance to fail after x years then a higher quality ceramic bearing which also uses the engine oil for lubrication iso grease probably has a much longer lifetime. However, if you would be LN Engineering with the whole IMS story as it is you'd probably limit your claim for longevity as well.
Just my 2c of course.
Volkert
No on the 6 yrs, yes they did extensive testing with an engine on a dyno run continuously until failure I believe. I could be wrong but I do rcall reading this awhile back.
I'd put my money on the"IMS Solution" and be done with it for the life of the car.
This is what I am doing right now. Dropped my 112,700 car off for surgery yesterday...I had the same argument with myself and decided piece of mind was worth the money. I was going to wait until I needed a clutch, but my ex brother in laws 01 boxster imploded 2 weeks ago due to IMS. It moved up my timeline...
If you have the extra $800 lying around...change away.
And more importantly, was the engine torn down for a proper diagnoses, or was a trashed bearing found and everything stopped there*?
* For the record I get why the investigation stops there in most cases and have no objection. It's when it stops there and the failure is blamed on the bearing that I object to.
His car had an original bearing. He bought the cat with around 70k miles and the shop that did his PPI told him that most cars over 60k miles are fine.
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Gnat, I am honestly not sure about the rear down and what they found...I'll have to ask him and get back to you.
You know, this is the whole point with that miserable IMS story. You don't know and you can't tell. Now you have the double row bearing fetish that it won't fail etc. Also that is not true. They fail less but fail they can. Unless you have owned the car its lifetime you don't know how often oil was changed, quality used etc. Even then, it could still fail.
So to TS point, if you're in there, follow the advice and change it every clutch change (if you are so lucky to have a manual). I actually believe it does not even have to be an expensive ceramic (but again there will be a law of odds...) but I don't mind to spend the additional dollar for some additional quality.
