Winter C4

Thinking of keeping my C4 out for the winter. Has the tires and clear bra. Questions are: How many of you keep your P cars going, what oil and how cold have you gone? I'm in Minnesota and have a short 5 mile coast to work but temps get to 10-15 below on occasion. Thanks.

i think 5 miles one way is too short the engine is not even fully warmed up yet.

I used my 2001 C4 all year... I didn't change anything but put on snow tires. I've had reading in my car of -17 degrees.

By me in NJ, there are plenty of winter days where the roads aren't full of salt, and the temps don't dip below freezing. That's when I would drive the 911. On freezing, windy winter days, it will stay nice and warm in the garage.

I'm sure I'm going to get jumped all over, here, but I'd drive it if I were you. The key thing that people who do a lot of short trip driving tend to neglect is that this is actually 'severe use' for an engine. That means more frequent oil changes. Change the oil often, and you'll avoid the damage that gets done by not letting an engine get fully warmed up, ie. that the oil accumulates moisture (enough to actually affect dipstick readings, if you let it go long enough). Then, once a week or so, take the long way home. Life is short. Enjoy the car.

I park the old girl every winter, and it already has 106k miles on it........ If I drove for all those winters it would prolly be dead by now.

I purposely got my car to drive in the winter! The PO did in Michigan for 8 years and preferred its handling in the snow over his wife's SUV. Snow tires are a must, of course. Now, if I can only figure out how to heat the seat...

I drive it in the winter and in the snow. Love it!!

I just ordered a winter set of wheels as well as Blizzak LM 25's. I can't wait. J

It has heated seats!

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did you go -1?

Dresler...are you referring to camber? J

Drive her like you stole her!!!! No doubt about it Except - dont rev her up to much on the short drives. Just take it slow to not strain a cold engine. Do remember the tires though. (I've been driving 944 and 996 as daily drivers in Scandinavian winters for ~10 years now. Not a single issue)

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Which wheels did you buy? Did you order from Tire Rack or elsewhere. Thanks.

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< sigh > < Tim shakes his head and thinks to himself "Man, Phil is really a glutton for punishment. I can't believe he actually asked that question!" > < sigh > Oh, come on now, stop it, JUST STOP IT!!! Why are you wasting Jon's time to ask him this question? Like anyone is going to believe you are going to drive you car in winter!! Maybe you plan to install a set of winter wheels and tires so you can totally "winterize" your car for winter storage! I guess they will give you good grip for backing the car out of the garage next spring!

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Tim, how did I know you'd chime in. In fact, this question is really for the S4 I have on order, which I will use during the winter, while the P-car is sleeping with it's summer shoes on, of course!! But, in thinking about it, your total winterization suggestion is interesting.....

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I actually considered that the question was for the S4, but that wouldn't have been as much fun to acknowledge that!

My C4 has Kumho for the winter tires. Input? I think I just would have gone for the Blizzak, just because that seems to be the P-car favorite but I have a perfectly good pair for it. Just concerned in keeping it on the pavement, not spirited driving - until March. Any comments on the Kumho's, I honestly never heard of the brand until I owned them.

I'm running Blizzaks all winter on a C4S in Delaware. No problems at all, except trying to keep the car clean. It's interesting driving a cold Porsche. You can feel the tires, shocks, and gearbox warm up and loosen up as you drive. Never seen temps in the negative numbers though. Five miles under those conditions is pretty tough. I'd probably make an effort to take the car out and warm it up good a couple of times each week.

hahaha...I LOVE this place. Phil and Tim...have you guys ever met face to face? Would be fun to have a RL "convention" in vegas so we can get out of the house for a few days....not that I can go with 3 crazy boys running around. Anyhow Phil....I got these wheels for winter....seem to be solid and the price was fantastic. I'm hopin they are as solid as they say...seller advised me that many others purchase from them to resell. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/18-8-...spagenameZWDVW Also, bought Blizzak LM-25's from Damon at tirerack. Their prices can't be beat for those treads. Also....since my camber settings (thank you PO) have shredded the insides of my rears (michellin PS2's with 6K miles), I also purchased Falken Fk-452's all around. They are being mounted as we speak and the car is being re-aligned and camber set to -0.8 for the rears on Friday at Porsche. They are setting all the wheels for their special of 289...sound good at all? They say it's usually 429 and takes 4 hours. The current tire shop won't even align it b/c it's too low...neither will my other tire shop down the road. I got the Falkens for 674 DELIVERED. that's less than half of the PS2's cost. Got them from Vulcantire.com. I'll let you all know how they feel, but I have them on my '85, and they are fantastic. Really nice looking tire too. With that....I'll have 2 very good shape Michellin Pilot Sport PS's for sale. Sizes are 225/40/18. One rear as well...with some irregular wear on the inside. but if you have proper settings, it would be fine. 295/30/18. so....lot's of tires for me and a set of knockoffs. J

JB - Tim and I haven't met, but it would be a trip, especially being the "age-challenged" members on the board! The winter wheels you got are terrific looking - I will likely check out the AudiWorld board to see what those guys are putting on their S4s. I did have an '01 S4 with Bridgestone S03s, and I actually got thru the Philly winter without any problems. So, I just might see how the car handles in the cold - any problems, it's wheels and tires for me.

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Jon - no we have never met. I was considering joining Wayne's Spring drive but Phil coouldn't make it because he was "on call" that weekend. I got killer deal on a full set of new PS2's (235 & 295) for $941 last spring. I really like the PS2's and am getting good tire wear out of them.

Where the he!! did you score that deal? If I could get them that inexpensively, I'd buy them every time. J

Jon - got that smoking deal at Discount Tire. Here is a link to the whole story. https://rennlist.com/forums/showpost...18&postcount=1

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No, I meant 18" diameter down to 17" and increasing the sidewall height. I'm thinking of doing that.

Tim....oh...nice score. But that's a special deal only for you....sucks for me. lol. Dresler...I kept them 18's....but went with 10's in the back rather than my stock 11's. 17's are gonna look strange on the wide body. Tires arrived today....they are badass looking. J

If I wanted to get winter tires for my C2 (no snow, just driving in the cold), would I be better of sticking with 18", using the same sizes and profiles, or stepping down to 17"?

Stay @ 18's.....no reason to go lower. In fact, if you don't plan on driving in actual snow, why would you change your current setup? J

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I've seen two views on driving with summer tires in cold weather: 1) A little less grip, but fine as long as there is no snow / rain. 2) Don't do it - the summer tires freeze and get very hard, causing dangerous conditions even in the dry. Which one is it??

Not too sure on that....but I always drove my '85 with summer tires in the winter cold (no snow tho...or salt for that matter) without any major issue. Just took it a bit easy on curves...that's all. But not that "too easy". J

I was hoping I could get away with using summer rubber for limited driving on sunny winter weekends. I would have to worry about getting caught in the freezing rain I guess.

In that case....NOTHING will help you. Ice is awful...just keep it inside on those days. I'm hoping someone else chimes in on this. I'm in NNJR too!!

Actually JB, I have to disagree regarding tire size for winter. 17's run thinner tires and thinner is better for both rain and snow. I got a good deal on a set of 17" boxster rims with winter Conti's that I use on my 996 and, other than looking a bit off because of small size, they handle the cold and rain well (i don't drive the Porsches in the snow), not to mention replacement tires will be less expenive. So 17's (if you can handle the ugly factor) are an excellent choice all around for winter.

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another reason to opt for smaller wheel(17') is the winter road condition. i drove summer tires in winter and learned my lesson...

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Meaning potholes and such messing up nice summer rims/tires?

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The right answer is that with summer tires when it is really cold ( below freezing) you are essentially running on marbles and those tires may never warm up even on those sunny winter days. It is true that if it is dry and you take it easy you will probably be ok. But if you have to do any kind of emergency manuver or push it too hard in a curve, you may find yourself in a major problem very quickly when the tires let go. And if you should get stuck in any kind of freezing precipitation , you will be in for a real scary drive. And here in NJ it can go from nice to crappy very quickly. I remember a couple of years ago that I thought I was ok to drive my newly purchased 996 before my Blizzaks showed up. Freezing rain started before I could get home and I had really tough time driving home. The same conditions with the Blizzaks were much easier to handle. If you plan on doing any kind of driving in the winter you should invest in a set of winter tires. It will transform even a C2 in the snow. You will actually find that you have more control and better traction than a lot of the SUV's on the road. Their all season tires do not grip nearly as well as a set of dedicated winter tires. I read one article that said there was as much as a 30% improvement in traction in snow over some all seasons.

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+1. A Michelin guy told me that the rubber turns hockey puck-like at about 5 degrees Celcius, and that it happens quite abruptly.

Here is another question: Would cold weather handling be BETTER on narrower winter tires (let's say 205/255) than on stock size summer tires - assuming the road is dry??

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No, not on a dry road. In that situation, you're benefiting from a compound that remains sticky in cold weather, but all the other physics are as normal. Now, add snow to the equation and narrower tires have some advantages.

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Ah. So, assuming I want a 17" rim set because they are only for the winter and the tires/rims would be cheaper - will the car handle better/safer in 30 degree weather because of the softer winter tires? I worry that I would buy winter wheels and tires, and wind up driving on them in dry, sunny winter weather. The only reason I would benefit in that situation is from the fact that my summer tires would potentially turn hard and slippery. Right?

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More than that, it was life-threatening, I lost it on a highway exit, doing 90 degree on the road, if there was a car following me, it would be ugly. Plus I have kids in the car.

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My understanding is that the advantages of 17s in winter are that the wheels are cheaper, there is more choice for tires, and the higher sidewall gives you some protection in case you skid into a curb or something. Summer handling on winter tires is a dodgy thing, in my experience. Although they are 'stickier', they don't behave the same way. They tend to have flexier sidewalls and tread blocks and to be less heat resistant and sometimes have lower speed ratings. The result can be unpredictable. I wouldn't drive them hard. YMMV. Winter handling on summer tires is as others have described. If you're sure it's going to be dry, then you're just giving up some margin and you can get away with it if you take it easy. Add moisture to the cold temperatures, though, and it's a different ballgame.

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17" tires are narrower and therefore cut through the snow better. After running 17" snows on my C4 I moved to 18" snows on the C4S and I haven't really noticed any change in handling.

I'm going through this same debate right now. My conclusion is that, unless I find a bargain that's otherwise, I'm choosing the 18s. The reasons have a little to do with looks and a lot to do with what urban winters are like here. I need the contact patch more than I need the snow-cutting ability. I never drive the P car to our country place... if i did, it would need more than narrow tires. It would need a lift kit.

It could come down to the way I drive my car, and where. It's not a daily driver, and not a commuter car. So I would only take it out on nice winter days. True, it could cloud up and start raining in the hour or two period I would be driving. And I would hate to have to coast all the way home, hoping to avoid a skid into a curb, or worse! Shelling out the money for the winter rims and tires, and giving up the storage space to store my summer / winter rims is a tough decision!

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You could look at it this way... a) you get pick different rims for your winter tires b) your summer tires last longer because you don't use them all year

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I'd agree with this...you'd "probably" be OK, but I don't know that I'd rely on "probably"... I'll bet it's at LEAST 30%. Personally, when the snow flies, I'd rather be in ANY vehicle with winter tires versus an AWD car with all-seasons--it's THAT big of a difference.

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again, u don't want to learn the lesson the hard way,

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I'm with you. I even have a complete set of winter tires for my Land Rover. 4 wheel drive with no traction is twice as dangerous as 2 wheel drive with no traction.

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That's exactly my experience! We've only a handful snow days here in Northern Virginia and I live 3min. from my office, so I don't have winter tires for my X3. When I lived back in the Alps, I had winter tires on all of my RWD 3-serie BMWs and would have outperformed my X3 with all season tires anytime in the snow. I'd say tires make 70% traction improvement in the snow, intelligent AWD maybe 30%.

However, I say it again, knowing that the 996 board gurus disagree: on dry winter days, I've never experienced much difference between summer- and winter tires in terms of traction due to compound for temperatures between 20 and 40 degrees Fahrenheit and you can compare that a lot in the mountains between the seasons when you drive in similar conditions with winter- and summer tires.

I have driven my '85 the past 6 winters with summer tires...have never had an issue or a close call b/c of tires. but then again....I'm not driving like a moron either. I think that's key. I will not even drive in the winter unless is super sunny!!!!!!!! Any chance of snow means no chance of driving. This is why my newer ride is AWD....winter wheels arrived today!!! Yahoooooooo. New Blizzaks sitting in the garage waiting to live their lives this winter. J

If I was single, I would say there would be MUCH higher probability of getting caught in the snow, or wet weather. You drive to a bar, meet someone, hours go by, all of a sudden it's 2am, and there is a dusting of snow on the streets. With 2 kids under 5, and a wife that gives me dirty looks whenever I mention taking the Porsche out for any period of time, there is little to no chance I would be out long enough for any snow to stick by the time I got home! Maybe I'll see how this winter goes. Worst comes to worst, I wont be driving the 911 much between December and April.